two years experience
two years experience
Hello, I hold an initial license (secondary math) from the states, CEAS, QTS, but no experience besides student teaching. I'm teaching English in China right now and hope I don't have to go back to the states to get xp before an IS will hire me. Is it possible to rack up those two years at Chinese schools for an IS to take me or are they looking for two years from America? Anyone have experience with this?
Re: two years experience
For schools of a certain quality, you can get a job without 2 years experience. But would you want to?
Good schools will almost always stick to requiring 2 years, meaning 2 years, full-time, post-certification, have your own class(es) sort of experience. So when you say you're teaching English, is that in a language academy sort of set-up, which most international schools wouldn't count as experience? Or you're teaching English language and literature in a K-12 school, either local or international?
Yes, you can earn your 2 years experience in an international school, or even a local school overseas, so long as it is recognizably a K-12 sort of school. Language academies and tutoring or cram schools will not count.
Good schools will almost always stick to requiring 2 years, meaning 2 years, full-time, post-certification, have your own class(es) sort of experience. So when you say you're teaching English, is that in a language academy sort of set-up, which most international schools wouldn't count as experience? Or you're teaching English language and literature in a K-12 school, either local or international?
Yes, you can earn your 2 years experience in an international school, or even a local school overseas, so long as it is recognizably a K-12 sort of school. Language academies and tutoring or cram schools will not count.
Re: two years experience
I think some schools in America will be more competitive than other schools of a certain quality that are more willing to take beginner teachers. Maybe I'm wrong but I still like China and I hope I can continue to stay here for a while.
I'm teaching spoken English at a private, K-5, Chinese, elementary school. Maybe this is a cram school?
I want to change my job next year and I have offers from a few Chinese schools that use AP, IB, or A level curriculum and some may be affiliated with schools in America but none of them are accredited. At least it will be more relevant than what I'm doing now in regards to what I'm trained for. Ultimately I would like to land a job at a WASC or AdvancED accredited school so I can upgrade my teaching license and gain relevant experience for if/when I go back to America. So I need experience and if I can't get in with an IS then I'll look for a Chinese school and hope an IS will consider it even if it's not experience from back home. Sounds like as long as it's K-12 and I'm teaching math then it may be ok.
I'm teaching spoken English at a private, K-5, Chinese, elementary school. Maybe this is a cram school?
I want to change my job next year and I have offers from a few Chinese schools that use AP, IB, or A level curriculum and some may be affiliated with schools in America but none of them are accredited. At least it will be more relevant than what I'm doing now in regards to what I'm trained for. Ultimately I would like to land a job at a WASC or AdvancED accredited school so I can upgrade my teaching license and gain relevant experience for if/when I go back to America. So I need experience and if I can't get in with an IS then I'll look for a Chinese school and hope an IS will consider it even if it's not experience from back home. Sounds like as long as it's K-12 and I'm teaching math then it may be ok.
Response
I concur with @Sid
You dont have to go to the US/UK/AUS/CAN or any other western region. What you need is FTE, post credential experience in a K12/KS environment where you have primary responsibility for composing, directing, and delivering educational outcomes.
Experience in a cram/hagwon/eikaiwa or other ES where the focus is English language training or study does not generally count in IE, and many recruiters and leadership will treat it as toxic. ISs may count less than FTE experience or combinations that do equal FTE experience but they generally dont except substitute/supply/relief experience.
You see a lot of ETs with various TESOL certificates that claim to be certified and describe their ES dispatch to a primary DS where they deliver some after school lessons a couple times a week as being an IT, and thats what IE wants to stay as far away as they can from and ETs can get very creative and still be telling the truth, because through their lens the key words used in IE are really close to the ones used in EE.
The consensus is that 2 years full time post credentialing experience is the bar to entry into IE. There are ISs though in the lower end of the third tier or hardship regions that will take ITs without experience or less than two years experience or whose experience is less than FT. As long as these are KS/K12 ISs than this experience has utility and will be accepted by other ISs.
You dont have to go to the US/UK/AUS/CAN or any other western region. What you need is FTE, post credential experience in a K12/KS environment where you have primary responsibility for composing, directing, and delivering educational outcomes.
Experience in a cram/hagwon/eikaiwa or other ES where the focus is English language training or study does not generally count in IE, and many recruiters and leadership will treat it as toxic. ISs may count less than FTE experience or combinations that do equal FTE experience but they generally dont except substitute/supply/relief experience.
You see a lot of ETs with various TESOL certificates that claim to be certified and describe their ES dispatch to a primary DS where they deliver some after school lessons a couple times a week as being an IT, and thats what IE wants to stay as far away as they can from and ETs can get very creative and still be telling the truth, because through their lens the key words used in IE are really close to the ones used in EE.
The consensus is that 2 years full time post credentialing experience is the bar to entry into IE. There are ISs though in the lower end of the third tier or hardship regions that will take ITs without experience or less than two years experience or whose experience is less than FT. As long as these are KS/K12 ISs than this experience has utility and will be accepted by other ISs.
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WinterFerret
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:04 pm
Re: two years experience
intltchr wrote:
> I want to change my job next year and I have offers from a few Chinese
> schools that use AP, IB, or A level curriculum and some may be affiliated
> with schools in America but none of them are accredited.
I would go with this, sure it would a less professional environment than a public school back in the US, but you're already in China. Moving back to the States to job hunt would be more costly and a big pain, and you may end up at an unruly title 1 school and would be unlikely to get AP classes for a new teacher. Plenty of teachers have done their dues in China and then move to better international schools, or stayed in China and moved up to some pretty well paying schools. Your ET experience will help you fit in at these Chinese International Schools, as you'll already be use to some of the stuff other international teachers would complain about.
> I want to change my job next year and I have offers from a few Chinese
> schools that use AP, IB, or A level curriculum and some may be affiliated
> with schools in America but none of them are accredited.
I would go with this, sure it would a less professional environment than a public school back in the US, but you're already in China. Moving back to the States to job hunt would be more costly and a big pain, and you may end up at an unruly title 1 school and would be unlikely to get AP classes for a new teacher. Plenty of teachers have done their dues in China and then move to better international schools, or stayed in China and moved up to some pretty well paying schools. Your ET experience will help you fit in at these Chinese International Schools, as you'll already be use to some of the stuff other international teachers would complain about.
Reply
@intltchr
You have nothing to hang your head over. You like China stay there. Yes, your IS is an ES, and youre an ET but so what. You got a credential, you know which end of the classroom to stand on, and it is 'YOUR' classroom, you have ISs offering you appointments in academic content areas, and AP/DIP/IGCSE are defacto accreditation. Is it the the optimal scenario, no, but most ITs dont get to start out with it easy, they make their bones doing exactly what your doing, and thats moving on and moving up too something better, and make no mistake this is better.
The whole going back to the US would be a nightmare, you are only credentialed in one region (DC) and everywhere and anywhere else in the US that was/is a regulated (public/maintained) DS you would have to mark "no" on the application to credentialed licensed because you wouldnt be credentialed in that state, and getting all those credentials would be both expensive and time consuming as well as challenging (some states wont grant reciprocity because you have no experience or you went an ACP, skills based pathway). You have interest where you are, keep rolling with that until you get the best deal and appointment you can and in a handful of years with some solid refs and exam performance all of this will be a distant memory.
You have nothing to hang your head over. You like China stay there. Yes, your IS is an ES, and youre an ET but so what. You got a credential, you know which end of the classroom to stand on, and it is 'YOUR' classroom, you have ISs offering you appointments in academic content areas, and AP/DIP/IGCSE are defacto accreditation. Is it the the optimal scenario, no, but most ITs dont get to start out with it easy, they make their bones doing exactly what your doing, and thats moving on and moving up too something better, and make no mistake this is better.
The whole going back to the US would be a nightmare, you are only credentialed in one region (DC) and everywhere and anywhere else in the US that was/is a regulated (public/maintained) DS you would have to mark "no" on the application to credentialed licensed because you wouldnt be credentialed in that state, and getting all those credentials would be both expensive and time consuming as well as challenging (some states wont grant reciprocity because you have no experience or you went an ACP, skills based pathway). You have interest where you are, keep rolling with that until you get the best deal and appointment you can and in a handful of years with some solid refs and exam performance all of this will be a distant memory.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: two years experience
Heck, I'd bet $10 that there are schools listed on TieOnline looking for math teacher that would take someone with a credential. The bigger question is what level of secondary mathematics can you teach? Are you comfortable with Calculus? Did you study advanced mathematics in university or are you just talking about geometry, algebra, algebra 2, pre-calc?
Eion
Eion
Re: two years experience
Thanks everyone for the replies and encouragement. To clarify, I completed student teaching in the states (NC) before I came to China. I guess an advantage of NC is that I can add endorsements via praxis exams before it expires.
I have a masters in math and I did well in my anlysis classes. Calculus is one of my favorite subjects so I would love to teach this. A lot of schools have asked me if I can teach AP classes and I always reply that while I don't have experience, AP courses are taken for college credit and my masters allows me to teach at the community college level in the states which should be equivalent to teaching AP as far as content goes.
It's good to know I don't have to go back to the states for experience. An IS in Beijing rejected me for someone with 10+ years of experience but I'm about to get an offer from a new school in Dalian and they know what WASC accreditation is.
I have a masters in math and I did well in my anlysis classes. Calculus is one of my favorite subjects so I would love to teach this. A lot of schools have asked me if I can teach AP classes and I always reply that while I don't have experience, AP courses are taken for college credit and my masters allows me to teach at the community college level in the states which should be equivalent to teaching AP as far as content goes.
It's good to know I don't have to go back to the states for experience. An IS in Beijing rejected me for someone with 10+ years of experience but I'm about to get an offer from a new school in Dalian and they know what WASC accreditation is.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: two years experience
With a Masters in mathematics you'll easily find a job. Once you get some AP and/or IB teaching experience you should be competitive for good schools. If you can add physics as a content teaching area that would make you even more competitive.
With AP and IB you are teaching towards content specific tests. There are things to learn to be more effective, but if you know the math content and can teach it well it's just a matter of knowing how the courses are laid out. IB has some more components like the Internal Assessment, which are different from what you get in the AP.
Good luck.
Eion
With AP and IB you are teaching towards content specific tests. There are things to learn to be more effective, but if you know the math content and can teach it well it's just a matter of knowing how the courses are laid out. IB has some more components like the Internal Assessment, which are different from what you get in the AP.
Good luck.
Eion
Re: two years experience
So far I have offers from a Chinese public school in Beijing and a new IS in Dalian.
I can teach AP math in Beijing and I was promised access to all materials from the outgoing American math teacher there.
The IS in Dalian will use the IGCSE curriculum and seek CIE accreditation the first year and WASC the second. They may also want me to teach English in addition to math.
I think Beijing is the better offer even though Dalian is becoming an IS. The English part of the Dalian contract scares me. I want to work for a WASC school but it will take a few years for Dalian to finish this process. Maybe after a year or two in Beijing I will be competitive enough to move to a school that is already accredited?
I can teach AP math in Beijing and I was promised access to all materials from the outgoing American math teacher there.
The IS in Dalian will use the IGCSE curriculum and seek CIE accreditation the first year and WASC the second. They may also want me to teach English in addition to math.
I think Beijing is the better offer even though Dalian is becoming an IS. The English part of the Dalian contract scares me. I want to work for a WASC school but it will take a few years for Dalian to finish this process. Maybe after a year or two in Beijing I will be competitive enough to move to a school that is already accredited?
Reply
@intltchr
You dont owe any IS or leadership an explanation what or where your Masters would let you teach (you could teach at a 4 year institution and teach any undergrad course with a Masters, technically), what is important is you haven't done it and dont have any course syllabuses, which really isnt much of an issue, you are only lacking experience and youre on your way to getting it (and your not set on getting it in the WE).
You didnt give us a lot of information on these two ISs. We need more information?
1) Is the AP maths just one course or a number of courses? Is the IGCSE just one course and English or a number of maths courses?
2) Is the "English" literature or ESOL? What age/year levels?
3) Do you have any personal priorities in regard to what kind of lifestyle you want?
Dalian is a pretty nice place, probably one of the nicest metro/cosmo locations in China. Its the in country tourist destination to hit the surf and the beach. More daisy dukes and bikini lifestyle as opposed to all the flossy and 'cough, cough' lifestyle issues of Beijing, but if thats your thing, than thats your thing.
I dont know what the "English" is, whether its ESOL or Literature, its another HOD and another set of meetings with the other department and everything that comes with it. Which is going to double the crazy (read below).
Those materials from the outgoing IT arent likely to be anything really valuable, it will likely be a box of documents that will take you as long if not longer to make sense off than if you just did the work from scratch yourself. Third tier ISs arent known for high quality anything. You might find some worksheets and maybe a few lesson plans but not much that will be worth the time.
CIE accreditation isnt really any better (its still NEASC) than WASC, WASC is more popular and drives Common Core and curriculums like Arrow and Nexgen that all came out of CA, but from a practical position there isnt really a difference. CIE/Arrow, west coast/east coast from a classroom perspective it doesnt mean much if any difference.
That said, my advice is that an IS attempting accreditation in one year and then another accreditation the following year, A) Doesnt know what its doing and B) Is going to make your life and any faculties life crazy insane.
You will have some leaderships foot on your throat for two years and when the plan doesnt work out the way they planed because that kind of schedule is nuts then someone will be looking for scapegoats and its likely to be the faculty (meaning you). In addition if this is a really new IS they will have growing pains just in the day to day operations that will increase your workload enough. Dalian would be a nice post though
Based on what you have provided and parsing the metrics the AP is more valuable than IGCSE, AP is SLL and your closer to the US than the UK curriculum in your background. Two years at AP with good exam results and your looking at tier 2 for your next contract. The Dalian value of IGCSE after two years isnt going to be worth the work, but the Dalian IS has better long term potential if your willing to put up with the drama for X years and you stay.
I would approach the Dalian IS and flat out pitch the contract as dumping the "English" and substituting HOD Math for the English and teaching IGCSE Maths only with the extra prep time being put towards their growth, and accreditation process and have that reflected with reduced teaching hours in the contract, if they come back with a counter than drop the HOD but no "English", even if you arent HOD the growth and accreditation process alone is enough work for a upper secondary maths IT. If they bulk or decline, than walk. You have a professional credential and a Masters in maths, and they are a know nothing, noob third tier IS in China. If they dont recognize the utility you offer (and their cray, cray accreditation pathway) they arent smart enough for you to be working for.
The unspoken elephant in the room of course is that this is May, yes its late, but you are very flexible, have great marketability for an intern class IT, you could wait it out for something else. Even better you could take the Beijing (or the Dalian) vacancy as a safety appointment and if something better comes up dump those ISs and take the better offer.
You dont owe any IS or leadership an explanation what or where your Masters would let you teach (you could teach at a 4 year institution and teach any undergrad course with a Masters, technically), what is important is you haven't done it and dont have any course syllabuses, which really isnt much of an issue, you are only lacking experience and youre on your way to getting it (and your not set on getting it in the WE).
You didnt give us a lot of information on these two ISs. We need more information?
1) Is the AP maths just one course or a number of courses? Is the IGCSE just one course and English or a number of maths courses?
2) Is the "English" literature or ESOL? What age/year levels?
3) Do you have any personal priorities in regard to what kind of lifestyle you want?
Dalian is a pretty nice place, probably one of the nicest metro/cosmo locations in China. Its the in country tourist destination to hit the surf and the beach. More daisy dukes and bikini lifestyle as opposed to all the flossy and 'cough, cough' lifestyle issues of Beijing, but if thats your thing, than thats your thing.
I dont know what the "English" is, whether its ESOL or Literature, its another HOD and another set of meetings with the other department and everything that comes with it. Which is going to double the crazy (read below).
Those materials from the outgoing IT arent likely to be anything really valuable, it will likely be a box of documents that will take you as long if not longer to make sense off than if you just did the work from scratch yourself. Third tier ISs arent known for high quality anything. You might find some worksheets and maybe a few lesson plans but not much that will be worth the time.
CIE accreditation isnt really any better (its still NEASC) than WASC, WASC is more popular and drives Common Core and curriculums like Arrow and Nexgen that all came out of CA, but from a practical position there isnt really a difference. CIE/Arrow, west coast/east coast from a classroom perspective it doesnt mean much if any difference.
That said, my advice is that an IS attempting accreditation in one year and then another accreditation the following year, A) Doesnt know what its doing and B) Is going to make your life and any faculties life crazy insane.
You will have some leaderships foot on your throat for two years and when the plan doesnt work out the way they planed because that kind of schedule is nuts then someone will be looking for scapegoats and its likely to be the faculty (meaning you). In addition if this is a really new IS they will have growing pains just in the day to day operations that will increase your workload enough. Dalian would be a nice post though
Based on what you have provided and parsing the metrics the AP is more valuable than IGCSE, AP is SLL and your closer to the US than the UK curriculum in your background. Two years at AP with good exam results and your looking at tier 2 for your next contract. The Dalian value of IGCSE after two years isnt going to be worth the work, but the Dalian IS has better long term potential if your willing to put up with the drama for X years and you stay.
I would approach the Dalian IS and flat out pitch the contract as dumping the "English" and substituting HOD Math for the English and teaching IGCSE Maths only with the extra prep time being put towards their growth, and accreditation process and have that reflected with reduced teaching hours in the contract, if they come back with a counter than drop the HOD but no "English", even if you arent HOD the growth and accreditation process alone is enough work for a upper secondary maths IT. If they bulk or decline, than walk. You have a professional credential and a Masters in maths, and they are a know nothing, noob third tier IS in China. If they dont recognize the utility you offer (and their cray, cray accreditation pathway) they arent smart enough for you to be working for.
The unspoken elephant in the room of course is that this is May, yes its late, but you are very flexible, have great marketability for an intern class IT, you could wait it out for something else. Even better you could take the Beijing (or the Dalian) vacancy as a safety appointment and if something better comes up dump those ISs and take the better offer.
Re: two years experience
1) Is the AP maths just one course or a number of courses? Is the IGCSE just one course and English or a number of maths courses? – I can teach AP Pre-Calc, AP Calc, and AP Stats in Beijing. 19 teaching hours, 1 office hours, study hall proctoring, and extra curriculars. The IS in Dalian is not as clear with 25-30 teaching hours of math and English a week. School hours are from 7:50-5:10 and 6:30-9:10.
2) Is the "English" literature or ESOL? What age/year levels? - I’m not sure what the age levels are. They mention English corner so I think it’s spoken English and I guess age level could be anything.
3) Do you have any personal priorities in regard to what kind of lifestyle you want? – I don’t like long commutes and I like living close to restaurants and shops. I also want to live in a city that has a metro. Tier 1 cities like Beijing and Shanghai interest me because of name recognition. I hear a lot of nice things about Dalian though.
I think you are right that the IS in Dalian may be a better long-term pick but I think they are also riskier as well. I think they are a Chinese private school that wants to become international. The difference between them and my current school is that Dalian is K-12 and they have a foreign principal. The contract also mentions salary renegotiation after the first year. I’m not sure if this is normal. If it’s anything like where I work now then that means they turn me into an English teacher and they pay me less the next year. My current contract says I’m a math teacher and yet I teach English. I don’t want to fall for this again. I think the CIE accreditation the Dalian school will pursue is from Cambridge.
“Cambridge Assessment International Education (or simply Cambridge, formerly known as CIE - (University of) Cambridge International Examinations) is a provider of international qualifications, offering examinations and qualifications to 10,000 schools in more than 160 countries.”
However, if they are legitimate then I think they will provide professional development and IS experience over time. They may offer AP and IB later. For now, they are barely an IS. I can try to negotiate with them but I need to make a decision soon as I need to renew my residence permit.
I’m not sure the Beijing school counts as an IS as they are a Chinese public school with no plans to pursue accreditation. They are affiliated with a university and because they are a public school I think there is less of a chance they will turn me into an English teacher. AP experience is also hard to pass up. I should at least be able to get my two years of experience there if nothing else. I think Beijing has a lot of ISs and more professional opportunity than Dalian. I can also write praxis exams for ESOL and physics in Beijing.
Eventually, I want to reciprocate my license with California. This is my main goal for now. After I have a more professional license that I don’t have to worry about expiring then I think I can relax a bit and consider other places with a good environment like Dalian. It’s also good if I can get experience that might transfer back home for if/when I return. I’m not sure if AP experience or IS experience is better.
I’m leaning towards Beijing.
2) Is the "English" literature or ESOL? What age/year levels? - I’m not sure what the age levels are. They mention English corner so I think it’s spoken English and I guess age level could be anything.
3) Do you have any personal priorities in regard to what kind of lifestyle you want? – I don’t like long commutes and I like living close to restaurants and shops. I also want to live in a city that has a metro. Tier 1 cities like Beijing and Shanghai interest me because of name recognition. I hear a lot of nice things about Dalian though.
I think you are right that the IS in Dalian may be a better long-term pick but I think they are also riskier as well. I think they are a Chinese private school that wants to become international. The difference between them and my current school is that Dalian is K-12 and they have a foreign principal. The contract also mentions salary renegotiation after the first year. I’m not sure if this is normal. If it’s anything like where I work now then that means they turn me into an English teacher and they pay me less the next year. My current contract says I’m a math teacher and yet I teach English. I don’t want to fall for this again. I think the CIE accreditation the Dalian school will pursue is from Cambridge.
“Cambridge Assessment International Education (or simply Cambridge, formerly known as CIE - (University of) Cambridge International Examinations) is a provider of international qualifications, offering examinations and qualifications to 10,000 schools in more than 160 countries.”
However, if they are legitimate then I think they will provide professional development and IS experience over time. They may offer AP and IB later. For now, they are barely an IS. I can try to negotiate with them but I need to make a decision soon as I need to renew my residence permit.
I’m not sure the Beijing school counts as an IS as they are a Chinese public school with no plans to pursue accreditation. They are affiliated with a university and because they are a public school I think there is less of a chance they will turn me into an English teacher. AP experience is also hard to pass up. I should at least be able to get my two years of experience there if nothing else. I think Beijing has a lot of ISs and more professional opportunity than Dalian. I can also write praxis exams for ESOL and physics in Beijing.
Eventually, I want to reciprocate my license with California. This is my main goal for now. After I have a more professional license that I don’t have to worry about expiring then I think I can relax a bit and consider other places with a good environment like Dalian. It’s also good if I can get experience that might transfer back home for if/when I return. I’m not sure if AP experience or IS experience is better.
I’m leaning towards Beijing.
Reply
@intltchr
1) Are those the actual schedules for courses? Beijing is two AP preps of Calculus and Statistics and a AP Prep in Pre-Calculas (there is no AP course/exam for Pre-Calc) or is is a 3 preps that include AB Calculus, BC Calculus and Statistics and a prep for an AP Prep Pre-Calculas course. The actual AP courses are 15 hours a week and the AP Prep Pre-Calculas is 4 hours a week and then add an hour for office hours. Is it that or is it fewer preps and fewer courses and those are just the courses you could teach but you really only have 1-2 preps but have a 2 or 3 sections of the same course?
2) Are both ISs the same contact schedule (7:50-5:10 and 6:30-9:10)? because thats 2 jobs, and it sounds a lot more like a maths IT by day and an ESOL ET by night, thats a 12 hour day, typical ITs do an 8 hour contact day (8-4) and an extra hour or two for meetings a week.
3) Whats the Dailan enrollment? 25-30 teaching hours for an IS with a small or even medium enrollment that means a lot of preps, and based on what youve written, and their schedule, unless they have a large enrollment for an IGCSE maths IT means that a lot of those teaching hours have got to be ESOL. Youre going to be an ET who teaches some maths not a maths IT.
4) Both Dalian and Beijing have a metro, Dalians is smaller but newer (and thus nicer), Beijings is more encompassing and has better accessibility. You can easily live next near/next door to shops and restaurants in both locations.
Cant go without saying air quality is much more an issue in Beijing than Dalian, thats an issue for some people and not an issue for others, but its certainly there.
5) You would need to define your risk profile? Both of these ISs are lower third tier, there isnt security in either of them. The Dalian IS might sound bad, but only because the Beijing IS is better at deception and subterfuge. Both of these appointments could be train wrecks and I think you know at some level they probably will be, the issues are 1) Which one is going to be worse and what will be the value of the outcomes for you at the end of two years. 2) Which lifestyle/environment out of work will you enjoy more? One could be a cluster rat screw the other death by a thousand cuts. How do you like your suffering? All at once, recover, move on or a daily grinding away at your soul? Steal meet stone, both of these are going to bad, its what your going to be doing outside of work (with that 8-9 schedule, it wont be much outside weekends).
6) Having an expat principal doesnt mean anything, this expat principal could be nothing more than a puppet or a face for the community, a powerless cut-out that occupies an office and goes through the motions dictated by an organization structure where the power is centered elsewhere. If you have an expat principal who reports too a director who is a local and runs the show, than the principal is just a messenger a layer of insulation in the communication pathway. That could work for you as well, you have a one stop place to dump your requests without navigating some foreign system. At the very least you will have someone in leadership who internally understands, even if all they can do is shake their head and do nothing.
7) Salary renegotiation isnt typical. If its a two year contract their is a salary scale and while that can change and sometimes it goes down and not up, renegotiating salary midway is bad for the IT. The IT has to look at it as a 1 year contract with half their relocation benefits subject to dissolution, because if the renegotiation of the salary goes up, then its not a renegotiation, nobody complains about more coin. Ownership/leadership doesnt say were going to give you more coin and the faculty says "wait we have to talk about this? You just send an email out to staff/faculty saying their pay is going up, and then life moves on. The only renegotiation of salary that requires renegotiation is when there is a reduction, and the lead up of interviews, and reviews and documentation to justify to ownership/leadership why every IT should get more coin. Thats not a good position to be in, and the outcome, steal meet stone is how much less will an IT take before they walk when facing a runner and dissolution of half their benefits, because if the IT says no, they get dismissed, they get a negative ref and they lose everything from their visa to their return flights and probably whatever hold over in coin the IS is reserving.
8) Is it Cambridge or is it NEASC? Cambridge is easier, you can do that in a year, its still a crazy year for leadership or ownership but its less intense on ITs in the classroom. It would still be a massive pain, you do Cambridge in a year while building your binder, and then the second year you do the talk and walk for WASC, still wouldnt be fun, still going to be a crazy nutter pain, just less so, but the distinctions are like the distinctions of torture are, it doesnt matter what the academic differences are, its still going to hurt a lot.
Assuming its 4 preps with 20 teaching hours.
9) I doubt you will get any meaningful PD from either IS, and if you do get anything you will want that time back.
10) What does it mean to be an IS, what defines an IS? Its an issue the forum and contributors have discussed at length and there are organizations such as ISC that have published their own opinions and position. To define what an IS is the profession has to define the terms, and there isnt agreement on that, its always some subjective operational definition that when steal meet stone is just an arbitrary decision.
There are a lot of ISs that are ISs even though they are DSs, whether they are regulated and publicly funded or they arent. My approach is to define not what an IS is but what an IS creates in terms of ethos and environment.
The Beijing IS is an 'Academy' a 'school within a school', in this case a western IS program structured around the AP inside an Eastern DS. Youre a foreigner teaching a western format for a global program (AP), and these factors demonstrate intent to create an environment of an international program by integrating western meds/peds/asst in an Eastern student body. In this case the program is restricted, the Beijing DS doesnt need to create this academy if they just wanted to deliver AP courses, they could do so entirely using local staff and DTs and maintaining traditional meds/peds/asst of teaching.
11) I know Beijing has more ISs, opportunity for PD only matters if you can access it and the outcome has utility. We live in a global world there is high quality PD (mostly in the form of uni studies) that you can access online and by distance anywhere in the world. if your definition of PD is something that your IS offers and provides for you that you access, than neither position is likely to offer much if anything and that the two ISs are functionally equal.
My previous recommendation remains the same talk to the Dalian IS, ESOL isnt acceptable to you. If HOD is an option that opportunity shifts the metrics in favor of the Dalian IS. Without it its strictly Maths and a reduction in teaching hours to 20 and without the ESOL reduction of the contract hours and schedule to the 7:50-5:10. If they dont accept walk, at that point the Beijing appointment is superior, as the AP experience after two years is strongly marketable.
Parking your credential in CA is a wise move, you wont have PD breathing down your neck. While both appointments would be questionable in their acceptance, the Dalian IS with WASC accreditation presents a stronger case than the Beijing IS.
IE experience isnt very valuable in returning too DE, AP would have more utility in returning to the US, but if you wanted to resettle in the UK or explore a BS in the US than IGCSE would have more utility than AP. Regardless, SLL experience and demonstrated exam scores are strongly marketable everywhere. You have a credential and a Masters in maths, after a couple years at the front of the classroom youre employable anywhere. There are DSs everywhere that would move mountains to hire you (though you might not enjoy life there).
1) Are those the actual schedules for courses? Beijing is two AP preps of Calculus and Statistics and a AP Prep in Pre-Calculas (there is no AP course/exam for Pre-Calc) or is is a 3 preps that include AB Calculus, BC Calculus and Statistics and a prep for an AP Prep Pre-Calculas course. The actual AP courses are 15 hours a week and the AP Prep Pre-Calculas is 4 hours a week and then add an hour for office hours. Is it that or is it fewer preps and fewer courses and those are just the courses you could teach but you really only have 1-2 preps but have a 2 or 3 sections of the same course?
2) Are both ISs the same contact schedule (7:50-5:10 and 6:30-9:10)? because thats 2 jobs, and it sounds a lot more like a maths IT by day and an ESOL ET by night, thats a 12 hour day, typical ITs do an 8 hour contact day (8-4) and an extra hour or two for meetings a week.
3) Whats the Dailan enrollment? 25-30 teaching hours for an IS with a small or even medium enrollment that means a lot of preps, and based on what youve written, and their schedule, unless they have a large enrollment for an IGCSE maths IT means that a lot of those teaching hours have got to be ESOL. Youre going to be an ET who teaches some maths not a maths IT.
4) Both Dalian and Beijing have a metro, Dalians is smaller but newer (and thus nicer), Beijings is more encompassing and has better accessibility. You can easily live next near/next door to shops and restaurants in both locations.
Cant go without saying air quality is much more an issue in Beijing than Dalian, thats an issue for some people and not an issue for others, but its certainly there.
5) You would need to define your risk profile? Both of these ISs are lower third tier, there isnt security in either of them. The Dalian IS might sound bad, but only because the Beijing IS is better at deception and subterfuge. Both of these appointments could be train wrecks and I think you know at some level they probably will be, the issues are 1) Which one is going to be worse and what will be the value of the outcomes for you at the end of two years. 2) Which lifestyle/environment out of work will you enjoy more? One could be a cluster rat screw the other death by a thousand cuts. How do you like your suffering? All at once, recover, move on or a daily grinding away at your soul? Steal meet stone, both of these are going to bad, its what your going to be doing outside of work (with that 8-9 schedule, it wont be much outside weekends).
6) Having an expat principal doesnt mean anything, this expat principal could be nothing more than a puppet or a face for the community, a powerless cut-out that occupies an office and goes through the motions dictated by an organization structure where the power is centered elsewhere. If you have an expat principal who reports too a director who is a local and runs the show, than the principal is just a messenger a layer of insulation in the communication pathway. That could work for you as well, you have a one stop place to dump your requests without navigating some foreign system. At the very least you will have someone in leadership who internally understands, even if all they can do is shake their head and do nothing.
7) Salary renegotiation isnt typical. If its a two year contract their is a salary scale and while that can change and sometimes it goes down and not up, renegotiating salary midway is bad for the IT. The IT has to look at it as a 1 year contract with half their relocation benefits subject to dissolution, because if the renegotiation of the salary goes up, then its not a renegotiation, nobody complains about more coin. Ownership/leadership doesnt say were going to give you more coin and the faculty says "wait we have to talk about this? You just send an email out to staff/faculty saying their pay is going up, and then life moves on. The only renegotiation of salary that requires renegotiation is when there is a reduction, and the lead up of interviews, and reviews and documentation to justify to ownership/leadership why every IT should get more coin. Thats not a good position to be in, and the outcome, steal meet stone is how much less will an IT take before they walk when facing a runner and dissolution of half their benefits, because if the IT says no, they get dismissed, they get a negative ref and they lose everything from their visa to their return flights and probably whatever hold over in coin the IS is reserving.
8) Is it Cambridge or is it NEASC? Cambridge is easier, you can do that in a year, its still a crazy year for leadership or ownership but its less intense on ITs in the classroom. It would still be a massive pain, you do Cambridge in a year while building your binder, and then the second year you do the talk and walk for WASC, still wouldnt be fun, still going to be a crazy nutter pain, just less so, but the distinctions are like the distinctions of torture are, it doesnt matter what the academic differences are, its still going to hurt a lot.
Assuming its 4 preps with 20 teaching hours.
9) I doubt you will get any meaningful PD from either IS, and if you do get anything you will want that time back.
10) What does it mean to be an IS, what defines an IS? Its an issue the forum and contributors have discussed at length and there are organizations such as ISC that have published their own opinions and position. To define what an IS is the profession has to define the terms, and there isnt agreement on that, its always some subjective operational definition that when steal meet stone is just an arbitrary decision.
There are a lot of ISs that are ISs even though they are DSs, whether they are regulated and publicly funded or they arent. My approach is to define not what an IS is but what an IS creates in terms of ethos and environment.
The Beijing IS is an 'Academy' a 'school within a school', in this case a western IS program structured around the AP inside an Eastern DS. Youre a foreigner teaching a western format for a global program (AP), and these factors demonstrate intent to create an environment of an international program by integrating western meds/peds/asst in an Eastern student body. In this case the program is restricted, the Beijing DS doesnt need to create this academy if they just wanted to deliver AP courses, they could do so entirely using local staff and DTs and maintaining traditional meds/peds/asst of teaching.
11) I know Beijing has more ISs, opportunity for PD only matters if you can access it and the outcome has utility. We live in a global world there is high quality PD (mostly in the form of uni studies) that you can access online and by distance anywhere in the world. if your definition of PD is something that your IS offers and provides for you that you access, than neither position is likely to offer much if anything and that the two ISs are functionally equal.
My previous recommendation remains the same talk to the Dalian IS, ESOL isnt acceptable to you. If HOD is an option that opportunity shifts the metrics in favor of the Dalian IS. Without it its strictly Maths and a reduction in teaching hours to 20 and without the ESOL reduction of the contract hours and schedule to the 7:50-5:10. If they dont accept walk, at that point the Beijing appointment is superior, as the AP experience after two years is strongly marketable.
Parking your credential in CA is a wise move, you wont have PD breathing down your neck. While both appointments would be questionable in their acceptance, the Dalian IS with WASC accreditation presents a stronger case than the Beijing IS.
IE experience isnt very valuable in returning too DE, AP would have more utility in returning to the US, but if you wanted to resettle in the UK or explore a BS in the US than IGCSE would have more utility than AP. Regardless, SLL experience and demonstrated exam scores are strongly marketable everywhere. You have a credential and a Masters in maths, after a couple years at the front of the classroom youre employable anywhere. There are DSs everywhere that would move mountains to hire you (though you might not enjoy life there).
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MusicTravel30
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 8:52 am
Re: two years experience
I don't think you would have much of an issue depending on where you look in the world and if you are flexible. I was hired by a very good IB school in South America, one of the best in the country. Prior to that I only had 2.5 years experience as a teachers aide at a Pre-K, 2 years experience at one of the best Pre-Ks in the city as a co-lead and 2 years experience at a UNI in China. I have a BA but no masters (yet).
The IB school took a chance on me and I stayed for 2 years. I learned a lot and it helped me to grow as a teacher. You never know until you try and I do not think things are always as complicated as they are made out to be.
The IB school took a chance on me and I stayed for 2 years. I learned a lot and it helped me to grow as a teacher. You never know until you try and I do not think things are always as complicated as they are made out to be.