When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
Why do they do this? I have heard explanations that this is to process work visas, but when the holding period is for many months, I begin to grow wary. Is this a way to dissuade runners? Control for the sake of it?
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Thames Pirate
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Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
I would never work at a school that held my passport. That is illegal and a huge red flag. Employers should not hold passports, which are the property of the issuing government. Nope, nope, and nope.
It is to dissuade runners and a way of exerting some control. You need to get your passport back and refuse to surrender it again. If they won't give it back, go to your local consulate and ask them what your options are. Just be aware you are walking into a hornet's nest regardless. Time to get your go bag ready.
It is to dissuade runners and a way of exerting some control. You need to get your passport back and refuse to surrender it again. If they won't give it back, go to your local consulate and ask them what your options are. Just be aware you are walking into a hornet's nest regardless. Time to get your go bag ready.
Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
Happens with some medieval schools in the middle east and south-east asia. The schools' insecurities manifest in many forms and this probably is the worst one.
Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
When we started in Saudi we had to give our passports to the school to process our iqamas. There was a rule that you couldn't have your both your iqama and your passport in your possession at the same time. Lots of teachers picked up their passports to travel and then "forgot" to return them. By my 2nd year the law had changed. It was very uncomfortable not having it in my possession--we had been used to have schools keep our passport for 3-4 days, but not for weeks and weeks and weeks. I wouldn't want to do it again, for sure!
Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
Talk to other teachers to find out more. In some countries yes, it can actually take months to get your visa processed. In which case, yes, your passport will be out of your possession for months. Other teachers at your school, who've been there longer, can let you know whether the school is legitimately getting your visa, or is playing games and holding your passport. And remember that the range of time it takes to process the visa can be different for different folks. My school in Qatar usually did pretty well and got many visas processed within about 4-6 weeks - a very short time span for that country. But for trickier visas (adopted children, "interesting" country of origin, etc) it could take much longer. The record in my day was almost 7 months. All very legitimate, and we could have gotten the passport back quickly if the teacher needed to make an emergency trip out of the country. (Which would have required restarting the whole visa process on their return. Ouch.)
If your school is playing games, contact your embassy. The US embassy (don't know about others) should be willing to contact the school and remind them that it's not ok to keep visas.
Saudi is the only country I'm aware of with anything like the "either your iqama or your passport" issue. It's annoying, but at least there you know it's a real thing.
If your school is playing games, contact your embassy. The US embassy (don't know about others) should be willing to contact the school and remind them that it's not ok to keep visas.
Saudi is the only country I'm aware of with anything like the "either your iqama or your passport" issue. It's annoying, but at least there you know it's a real thing.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
Holding an employee's passport is illegal in Saudi, even if it is common practice.
Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
As an alternative perspective on this, specific to Thailand, the BETTER schools will often hold on to your passport due to a specific legal requirement. Every 90 days you need to report your current address to the government. (Never mind the fact that it typically doesn't change that much.) You are required to do this in person or have someone you authorize do it for you, and you're also supposed to show your completed departure card. Complicating the issue, if you leave the country and re-enter (assuming you also got the proper re-entry permit beforehand), the 90 day period will reset and a new departure card will be issued, meaning people often forget when and how they need to report, and end up having to pay a fine as a result.
Most schools tell teachers that they are responsible for their own reporting, but the better ones handle it for you so you don't have to go on your own or even think about. However, doing this with over well over 100 foreign staff (which is normal for these schools) means it's easier for them to hold on to the passports. You can get it back at any time, just as I did a few days ago when I needed to use it for something.
Most schools tell teachers that they are responsible for their own reporting, but the better ones handle it for you so you don't have to go on your own or even think about. However, doing this with over well over 100 foreign staff (which is normal for these schools) means it's easier for them to hold on to the passports. You can get it back at any time, just as I did a few days ago when I needed to use it for something.
Response
It is not illegal for a foreign organization to take possession of your passport based on some assumption of an extra-territorial law. Foreign organizations do not have to follow US/UK/CAN/AUS law. I disagree with @Sid, the US nor any other embassy or consulate can call an IS and tell them they cant keep a passport (not a visa). They can tell the consul to kick rocks.
Some ISs really are slow in processing visas, but for some ISs this is by design, it benefits the IS the longer the visa process takes, it dissuades runners and allows them to terminate the contract early if they see fit to do so (they just cancel the application).
You can refuse to give it to them, but understand that while your reasons seem very reasonable there is little keeping the IS and leadership from dismissing you for refusing to surrender your passport to them. They may see your reluctance or refusal as an intent to pull a runner or be offended by what they consider to be insubordination.
I concur with @Thames Pirate, It is illegal though common practice for an employer to hold a passport. I also disagree with @JDk while it may be a convenience to you, to have the IS report your residence for you, its not something you cant do yourself and thus no need to give them your passport.
Some ISs really are slow in processing visas, but for some ISs this is by design, it benefits the IS the longer the visa process takes, it dissuades runners and allows them to terminate the contract early if they see fit to do so (they just cancel the application).
You can refuse to give it to them, but understand that while your reasons seem very reasonable there is little keeping the IS and leadership from dismissing you for refusing to surrender your passport to them. They may see your reluctance or refusal as an intent to pull a runner or be offended by what they consider to be insubordination.
I concur with @Thames Pirate, It is illegal though common practice for an employer to hold a passport. I also disagree with @JDk while it may be a convenience to you, to have the IS report your residence for you, its not something you cant do yourself and thus no need to give them your passport.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
It's a Saudi law I was referencing, and there is one in the UAE, too. Also, the passport is the property of the issuing government, so if you feel it has been held unfairly, calling the consulate is definitely the first thing to do.
Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
"I also disagree with @JDk while it may be a convenience to you, to have the IS report your residence for you, its not something you cant do yourself and thus no need to give them your passport."
Where did I say you can't do it yourself? I said quite clearly that in addition to having someone do it for you (assuming you have authorized them to do so), the opposite is typically the case: "You are required to do this in person..."
The point I was making was in reference to the original question, which asked why schools hold passports. I fully agree that in many places it may be related to them trying to exert a degree of control. Again, however, in Thailand it can be related to the reporting requirement. It's done this way at nearly all of the best schools, and teachers are able to take their passports at any time as I already specified.
It did not happen at my previous school, and in order to complete the reporting, I had to take a taxi for an hour to the government office, wait another hour and get a taxi back for yet another hour. The school didn't pay for any of it. I'm much happier now that it's handled for me, as are my colleagues.
Where did I say you can't do it yourself? I said quite clearly that in addition to having someone do it for you (assuming you have authorized them to do so), the opposite is typically the case: "You are required to do this in person..."
The point I was making was in reference to the original question, which asked why schools hold passports. I fully agree that in many places it may be related to them trying to exert a degree of control. Again, however, in Thailand it can be related to the reporting requirement. It's done this way at nearly all of the best schools, and teachers are able to take their passports at any time as I already specified.
It did not happen at my previous school, and in order to complete the reporting, I had to take a taxi for an hour to the government office, wait another hour and get a taxi back for yet another hour. The school didn't pay for any of it. I'm much happier now that it's handled for me, as are my colleagues.
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secondplace
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Re: When International Schools "Hold" your passport.
A school I worked at in China held onto our Foreign Expert Certificates (FEC) as we never needed them for anything and if lost they were a huge hassle to replace. They were only needed by the school for the purpose of renewing them.
A couple of teachers demanded that they keep theirs in their possession, lost them and caused huge headaches for HR and themselves.
This wasn't passports though.
A couple of teachers demanded that they keep theirs in their possession, lost them and caused huge headaches for HR and themselves.
This wasn't passports though.
Reply
@Thames Pirate
Laws only mean something if the enforcement is there to compel following them. Lots of ISs break the law all the time and nothing happens to them.
So what if its the property of the issuing government. How is the US or any other country going to enforce that against a foreign IS. Some court in the US/UK/AUS/CAn is going to issue a warrant, and even if they did the other country would just ignore it. If you cant compel compliance its not illegal. To that end whats the embassy going to do? Nothing they have no extra judicial authority. You know what they do, they yell and curse at you and then hang up on you, because any IS that keeps ITs passports is because they want to dissuade runners which means their contracts and policies are not top shelf, and they dont care what some vice consul at the embassy says. No embassy has ever been successful with filing a stolen property report in regards to an organization holding a passport that was voluntarily (regardless of the duress).
@JDK
The point I was making is that an IS can say it required you surrender your passport and since you posted the topic i addressed the topic by the author who wrote it.
Laws only mean something if the enforcement is there to compel following them. Lots of ISs break the law all the time and nothing happens to them.
So what if its the property of the issuing government. How is the US or any other country going to enforce that against a foreign IS. Some court in the US/UK/AUS/CAn is going to issue a warrant, and even if they did the other country would just ignore it. If you cant compel compliance its not illegal. To that end whats the embassy going to do? Nothing they have no extra judicial authority. You know what they do, they yell and curse at you and then hang up on you, because any IS that keeps ITs passports is because they want to dissuade runners which means their contracts and policies are not top shelf, and they dont care what some vice consul at the embassy says. No embassy has ever been successful with filing a stolen property report in regards to an organization holding a passport that was voluntarily (regardless of the duress).
@JDK
The point I was making is that an IS can say it required you surrender your passport and since you posted the topic i addressed the topic by the author who wrote it.