Psychometrika wrote:
> I've known some folks to actually enjoy their time in Saudi while saving
> tons of cash (they worked at ARAMCO). Definitely not for everyone, but you
> can say that about most places. I would never go back to Kuwait unless
> truly desperate, but Saudi would be a possibility for me.
Just curious. What's so bad about Kuwait compared to Saudi? I'd think Saudi is way more restricting.
Saudi Arabia
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Saudi Arabia
Kuwait is a country that you can drive across in two to two and a half hours. You can't just drive out of Kuwait because it is surrounded by Saudi and Iraq. So you have to fly. Inside the country are beautiful shopping malls. And litter. Lots of litter. I spent some time there and enjoyed it, but that's it.
Saudi is BIG. Once outside the city, there is lots to do. It has beautiful shopping malls in the three main cities (can't speak for Makkah or Madinah). It has litter, too. But it also has Maidan Saleh (built by the same people who built Petra), amazing vistas, sand dunes for driving where you might not see a soul other than your driving group all day. I felt far more free in Saudi than I ever did in Kuwait. And if you are in Riyadh, there are embassy functions if you meet the right people, lots of things going on, and much less repression than I thought. My friends from Jeddah liked it there and my friends from Dhahran liked it there. Plus you can drive out of Saudi into Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan, (Syria you used to be able to, wouldn't recommend it now), and the UAE if you own your own car or have your rental company's permission. Plus flights are cheap and often to other places.
I would consider going back to Saudi for the right position/school. I have been back to Kuwait, but only to visit friends who live there.
Saudi is BIG. Once outside the city, there is lots to do. It has beautiful shopping malls in the three main cities (can't speak for Makkah or Madinah). It has litter, too. But it also has Maidan Saleh (built by the same people who built Petra), amazing vistas, sand dunes for driving where you might not see a soul other than your driving group all day. I felt far more free in Saudi than I ever did in Kuwait. And if you are in Riyadh, there are embassy functions if you meet the right people, lots of things going on, and much less repression than I thought. My friends from Jeddah liked it there and my friends from Dhahran liked it there. Plus you can drive out of Saudi into Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan, (Syria you used to be able to, wouldn't recommend it now), and the UAE if you own your own car or have your rental company's permission. Plus flights are cheap and often to other places.
I would consider going back to Saudi for the right position/school. I have been back to Kuwait, but only to visit friends who live there.
-
Psychometrika
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:08 pm
Re: Saudi Arabia
SJ has the right of it. Nothing to really do there except shop and eat. Plus, the Kuwaitis have a (often well deserved) reputation of being arrogant and at times outright cruel. Google "Philippines workers Kuwait" to get an idea of how well they treat certain segments of their society. This sort of thing is not new. When I lived there 10 years ago there was a literal refugee camp inside the Philippines embassy of people trying to escape.
Western expats fare better, but still Kuwait is a place I'm in no hurry to return.
Western expats fare better, but still Kuwait is a place I'm in no hurry to return.
Reply
@MINCGA
Its much more difficult to find those who were unsuccessful, they tend to go away and do other things.
@SJ
Thats why they call it work, because they pay. If I paid it would be called entertainment. let me know when you DONT take the coin, until then your altruism is a little hollow.
@Lastname_Z
The highlight of @SJs narrative centers around driving, shopping and leaving for someplace else.
@Psychometrika
You have to go to the ME with a mercenaries focus on the coin.
Cruelty isnt alien anywhere in the ME, its just more open in Kuwait.
Its much more difficult to find those who were unsuccessful, they tend to go away and do other things.
@SJ
Thats why they call it work, because they pay. If I paid it would be called entertainment. let me know when you DONT take the coin, until then your altruism is a little hollow.
@Lastname_Z
The highlight of @SJs narrative centers around driving, shopping and leaving for someplace else.
@Psychometrika
You have to go to the ME with a mercenaries focus on the coin.
Cruelty isnt alien anywhere in the ME, its just more open in Kuwait.
Re: Saudi Arabia
I've always wondered how to broach certain subjects in Thine Kingdom.
For instance, if I'm an American, and I'm teaching history, I would assume the subject of democracy comes up. Are there guidelines towards speaking about it?
Or regarding evolution, it's kind of hard to teach science or basics of predator/prey relationships without speaking about adaptation.
Basically, does the administration speak to you beforehand about what or what not to say?
For instance, if I'm an American, and I'm teaching history, I would assume the subject of democracy comes up. Are there guidelines towards speaking about it?
Or regarding evolution, it's kind of hard to teach science or basics of predator/prey relationships without speaking about adaptation.
Basically, does the administration speak to you beforehand about what or what not to say?
Reply
@tardisted
When I was in the Kingdom, it was pretty cut and dry but had some complications that resulted in essentially "pauses" during lecture. This was an IS of entirely local students except for ITs kids.
1) The students had a religion DT who was a local who handled all of the 'messy' parts, in addition the students had a local Arabic DT as well.
2) At the start of the year the western AP held a meeting of the western faculty. There was no handout and no email, it was a handwritten list that the AP wrote on the board. It was essentially three subjects religion/philosophy, history and evolution. The policy was essentially 'skip', we just skipped those areas of controversy.
3) Some students would try to bait ITs, such as "what did people believe before genetics". To any type of controversial question the canned response would be, "thats a great question to ask in your religious studies or Arabic class". Some students would push "Well youre the teacher and I am asking you and please I want to know?" (the please was never sincere). To which your reply was to be "This is really a question best answered by your religious studies or Arabic Teacher, I will write it down and forward it to your teacher for that class". To which the student would say something to effect of "Thank you but I will ask myself, you do not need to send email to them".
4) The consequences for violation could be severe, depending on parent involvement. You could be jailed if the issue went high enough.
5) For those doing AP exams (and history was rare) there was an AP studies AP club that addressed these in a little more detail.
When I was in the Kingdom, it was pretty cut and dry but had some complications that resulted in essentially "pauses" during lecture. This was an IS of entirely local students except for ITs kids.
1) The students had a religion DT who was a local who handled all of the 'messy' parts, in addition the students had a local Arabic DT as well.
2) At the start of the year the western AP held a meeting of the western faculty. There was no handout and no email, it was a handwritten list that the AP wrote on the board. It was essentially three subjects religion/philosophy, history and evolution. The policy was essentially 'skip', we just skipped those areas of controversy.
3) Some students would try to bait ITs, such as "what did people believe before genetics". To any type of controversial question the canned response would be, "thats a great question to ask in your religious studies or Arabic class". Some students would push "Well youre the teacher and I am asking you and please I want to know?" (the please was never sincere). To which your reply was to be "This is really a question best answered by your religious studies or Arabic Teacher, I will write it down and forward it to your teacher for that class". To which the student would say something to effect of "Thank you but I will ask myself, you do not need to send email to them".
4) The consequences for violation could be severe, depending on parent involvement. You could be jailed if the issue went high enough.
5) For those doing AP exams (and history was rare) there was an AP studies AP club that addressed these in a little more detail.
Re: Saudi Arabia
Thanks so much.
Incredible stuff.
I've wanted to teach in The Kingdom for years, but my teaching style is to delve as deeply and far back as possible into an issue. When a student asks a question, I take it to answer it from every possible angle.
Incredible stuff.
I've wanted to teach in The Kingdom for years, but my teaching style is to delve as deeply and far back as possible into an issue. When a student asks a question, I take it to answer it from every possible angle.
Reply
@tardisted
Not every region is open to the western practice of the Socratic method. Even regions that are very democratic. In Japans DE the POV of Japans role in WWII is presented very differently than the one you would be familiar with coming from the US.
Look at the "American Revolutionary War", in the UK its the "Colonial Conflict" if touched on at all and was a minor conflict between British and British (there is nothing really "American" or mention of independence about it until you get too the summary) regarding a small group of colonists who didnt want to pay their fair share of taxes for the global protection the Crown navy provided resulting in a political separation for the colony. Its maybe a page in the history books and a 10 minute lesson you can stretch out to a day if your lazy or despearte and then moving on.
Even in that environment if you somehow tried to plan a multi week or even multi day lesson about it, youd be having a conversation with your HOD or Lead about the prescribed curriculum. You couldnt talk about the battle of Lexington, Valley Forge, the continental congress or the ride of the traitor Paul Revere, etc.. in any meaningful way. Aside from that, students get to decide if they even want to study history once they reach 14 in preparation for GCSEs and again at 16 for A levels. None of the boards have any great depth of material in the colonial conflict for that time period. The French and Bonaparte were much bigger and relevant during that time period (the Colonists were not going to invade Britannia, the French were a much stronger and legitimate threat) , and its not like the British Empire didnt loose colonies all the time (they were good at getting them, not keeping them) and colonies like CAN and AUS achieved independence without firing a shot. Its just not a historically significant event worthy of study by British school children. Your students and everyone else would think youd gone daft plodding on about trivial fluff.
Back to the Kingdom of Arabia, ITs have been "set up" by students and parents with wasta who then spent not inconsiderate lengths of time incarcerated for very minor issues. If you cant put a cork in your westernism than the Kingdom can quickly become very inhospitable.
Not every region is open to the western practice of the Socratic method. Even regions that are very democratic. In Japans DE the POV of Japans role in WWII is presented very differently than the one you would be familiar with coming from the US.
Look at the "American Revolutionary War", in the UK its the "Colonial Conflict" if touched on at all and was a minor conflict between British and British (there is nothing really "American" or mention of independence about it until you get too the summary) regarding a small group of colonists who didnt want to pay their fair share of taxes for the global protection the Crown navy provided resulting in a political separation for the colony. Its maybe a page in the history books and a 10 minute lesson you can stretch out to a day if your lazy or despearte and then moving on.
Even in that environment if you somehow tried to plan a multi week or even multi day lesson about it, youd be having a conversation with your HOD or Lead about the prescribed curriculum. You couldnt talk about the battle of Lexington, Valley Forge, the continental congress or the ride of the traitor Paul Revere, etc.. in any meaningful way. Aside from that, students get to decide if they even want to study history once they reach 14 in preparation for GCSEs and again at 16 for A levels. None of the boards have any great depth of material in the colonial conflict for that time period. The French and Bonaparte were much bigger and relevant during that time period (the Colonists were not going to invade Britannia, the French were a much stronger and legitimate threat) , and its not like the British Empire didnt loose colonies all the time (they were good at getting them, not keeping them) and colonies like CAN and AUS achieved independence without firing a shot. Its just not a historically significant event worthy of study by British school children. Your students and everyone else would think youd gone daft plodding on about trivial fluff.
Back to the Kingdom of Arabia, ITs have been "set up" by students and parents with wasta who then spent not inconsiderate lengths of time incarcerated for very minor issues. If you cant put a cork in your westernism than the Kingdom can quickly become very inhospitable.
Re: Saudi Arabia
For what it's worth, my husband taught history, which included comparative religions--fully looking at the origins, connections, and differences between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam with no problems. Our school also taught "The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas" with no editing or censoring.
Re: Saudi Arabia
Anyone in the ME or connections there have opinions on the current Yemen/Iran vs Saudi conflict? Missiles have been fired at Riyadh. From what I understand, SA has a very well funded defense system, but is this much ado about nothing? Potential war?? Should I be concerned for my families safety if moving? We would be an hour north of Jeddah, on the shores of the red sea. Thanks