Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Despite my best efforts, my long-time friend signed up for the London Search fair scheduled for January. I am not a big fan of fairs or international education anymore, but she's been in the business for almost twenty years and she is looking to switch schools and she didn't feel confident enough to simply apply to them directly - instead she wanted to join Search and have the fair as a backstop. Fast forward to now, December 1: she has applied to roughly 15 schools that are planning to go the the fair for her position but none have showed interest back at her. I am trying to convince her to just cancel her spot at the fair. I think that the schools probably are looking for someone a bit more spry and without a college-age dependent like my friend has. What can I tell her to convince her this fair is just not worth it? When someone has applied to a good number of schools in the months/weeks leading to the fair and none have bitten, isn't the writing on the wall that the fair will be a complete waste? I think she should just stay where she is a bit longer, it is really a good school and in a nice location, and she should avoid all this nonsense. Or just apply to schools directly and stay put until she has a firm commitment. Any tips?
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Cant live your friends life for her. Let her do as she may...
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Happytobeineducation
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Wow. Please take a step back and define friendship a little more clearly? How do you know for sure the fair is "just not worth it" and she should stay where she is and "avoid all this nonsense"? If your friend has been in education ("the business") for twenty years or so, then...it's not like she ran away from the farm with one tattered suitcase and full of hopes and dreams to make it big right away on Broadway.
Seriously, there is a lot of networking and job placement options that could open up. Also, when I used Search, my Search reps were very helpful with other tips on job hunting and even specific schools that I asked them about.
And..apologies, for a few moments I had to stop and wonder if the post was a genuine one. But perhaps it's all the weirdness in the air since the last US presidential election that makes looking at anything skewed.
Seriously, there is a lot of networking and job placement options that could open up. Also, when I used Search, my Search reps were very helpful with other tips on job hunting and even specific schools that I asked them about.
And..apologies, for a few moments I had to stop and wonder if the post was a genuine one. But perhaps it's all the weirdness in the air since the last US presidential election that makes looking at anything skewed.
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
First, thank you both for responding. Second, I can assure you that I am really asking for my friend and I am not trying to live my friend's life for her. I am looking for concrete information that will help her become as convinced as I already am that this is a waste of time and money. The reason for my pessimism is from my own past experience of getting bites by no later than the first week of December for positions I had applied to by then and in many cases applied to as early as late September or early October. I wanted and still want to learn from others on this board about whether my experience is out of the ordinary or typical. I assume it's typical because of what I've read about the run up to fairs previously on this board and from fair diaries of others detailing their own fair experiences. But, I never saw the questions that I posed asked directly, so that's why I am asking these questions directly.
I actually think my friend will get a job at another school if she really wants one but her prime time will probably be post-fair because of her amazing experience and age. I don't think she needs the fair but she is also likely to waste a lot of money on the fair because the schools going there have expressed no interest in her and she is not as young or current as what appears to be the most popular types of hires at the fairs.
So, again, the basic question is, have people who have put out many apps by now (without getting any pre-interviews/follow-ups from schools) ended up going to the fair and ended up with good results? Or, as I suspect, did you get no interest pre-fair and ended up going to the fair and the fair ended up being a dud for you?
I actually think my friend will get a job at another school if she really wants one but her prime time will probably be post-fair because of her amazing experience and age. I don't think she needs the fair but she is also likely to waste a lot of money on the fair because the schools going there have expressed no interest in her and she is not as young or current as what appears to be the most popular types of hires at the fairs.
So, again, the basic question is, have people who have put out many apps by now (without getting any pre-interviews/follow-ups from schools) ended up going to the fair and ended up with good results? Or, as I suspect, did you get no interest pre-fair and ended up going to the fair and the fair ended up being a dud for you?
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
I would say that going to a fair and not getting a job is not the worst experience in the world (from personal experience). How much worse would she (and you) feel if you convinced her to bail on the fair and then still didn't get a decent offer?
I would also add that it is entirely possible that she could still get some response/interest from schools in the immediate run up to the fair. And, there is also that statistic (I forget exactly what it is) that a significant chunk of fair attendees get hired after the fair (presumably due to their fair related contacts and activities).
In short, let her go would be my humble opinion.
I would also add that it is entirely possible that she could still get some response/interest from schools in the immediate run up to the fair. And, there is also that statistic (I forget exactly what it is) that a significant chunk of fair attendees get hired after the fair (presumably due to their fair related contacts and activities).
In short, let her go would be my humble opinion.
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Here is my 2 Sing dollars:
If you are at a tier 1 school, satisfied with the quality of living at your current location, and able to bank 2-3 grand a month, you don't need job fairs. You just wait for a Skype interview from an exceptional school, even if it takes a couple of years.
If you are at a mid-tiered school and feeling stagnated both in terms of PD and savings, then go to the nearest job fair. You don't have to waste 6-month savings to attend a distant fair.
P.S. Never attended a job fair, worked at 3 elite schools in 2 continents.
If you are at a tier 1 school, satisfied with the quality of living at your current location, and able to bank 2-3 grand a month, you don't need job fairs. You just wait for a Skype interview from an exceptional school, even if it takes a couple of years.
If you are at a mid-tiered school and feeling stagnated both in terms of PD and savings, then go to the nearest job fair. You don't have to waste 6-month savings to attend a distant fair.
P.S. Never attended a job fair, worked at 3 elite schools in 2 continents.
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
PsyGuy wrote:
> @marina
>
> How old is your friend?
She is 48-51ish.
> @marina
>
> How old is your friend?
She is 48-51ish.
Reply
@marina
Its kind of in that grey zone, so parsing the metrics:
1) Your friends adult college age child, is a non-issue. It doesnt effect the IS in any meaningful way. I wouldnt even mention it unless specifically in an interview.
2) Do ITs get nothing prior to the fair and then receive interviews and offers at the fair? Absolutely, thats how and why the fairs work. Its hard for a lot of ITs to discriminate between early recruiting (which can lead to first night recruiting) and peak recruiting but the two periods are very separate from one another. Its not a continuum. Early recruiting is focused, and if successful it saves the IS significant resources moving forward into peak recruiting. Peak recruiting is much more dilute Early recruiting is targeted, peak recruiting is juggling.
3) There are meltdowns and there are ITs that get nothing. It happens and the older age demographic is one with a higher proportion of those. You really need to be where you want to retire out at around 50.
4) As @WT123 indicated, and numbers have shifted but year to year, post fair offers about double the fair offers as a result of fair recruitment. Its hard to test this, and the data is mostly self report. Its also easy to see how you would miss every shot you dont take.
5) There is a lot more to offer from a fair than interviews and offers, especially networking, which in itself can be of substantial value.
Id put my coin against your friend, unless the fair is local, and inexpensive to attend or your friend is highly interested in the networking opportunities, I would advise them not to go. The issue being that your friends age is going to be more prominent in person than digitally. LON isnt all millennials but your friend is going to be in a minority and age comparisons are just more pronounced in person, which are 'softer' in a head shot on Skype, etc. Its unlikely shes going to get an offer she would accept compared to your friends current location.
Its kind of in that grey zone, so parsing the metrics:
1) Your friends adult college age child, is a non-issue. It doesnt effect the IS in any meaningful way. I wouldnt even mention it unless specifically in an interview.
2) Do ITs get nothing prior to the fair and then receive interviews and offers at the fair? Absolutely, thats how and why the fairs work. Its hard for a lot of ITs to discriminate between early recruiting (which can lead to first night recruiting) and peak recruiting but the two periods are very separate from one another. Its not a continuum. Early recruiting is focused, and if successful it saves the IS significant resources moving forward into peak recruiting. Peak recruiting is much more dilute Early recruiting is targeted, peak recruiting is juggling.
3) There are meltdowns and there are ITs that get nothing. It happens and the older age demographic is one with a higher proportion of those. You really need to be where you want to retire out at around 50.
4) As @WT123 indicated, and numbers have shifted but year to year, post fair offers about double the fair offers as a result of fair recruitment. Its hard to test this, and the data is mostly self report. Its also easy to see how you would miss every shot you dont take.
5) There is a lot more to offer from a fair than interviews and offers, especially networking, which in itself can be of substantial value.
Id put my coin against your friend, unless the fair is local, and inexpensive to attend or your friend is highly interested in the networking opportunities, I would advise them not to go. The issue being that your friends age is going to be more prominent in person than digitally. LON isnt all millennials but your friend is going to be in a minority and age comparisons are just more pronounced in person, which are 'softer' in a head shot on Skype, etc. Its unlikely shes going to get an offer she would accept compared to your friends current location.
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Over your friends age and still lots of interest.
Pros for your friend - no twenty-year old . drama (not that it applies to all, as we well know), no kids to take paying spots, experience in good schools.
Cons - age, cost to travel to fair.
Answer - if your friend wants to go to the fair, let her go.
Pros for your friend - no twenty-year old . drama (not that it applies to all, as we well know), no kids to take paying spots, experience in good schools.
Cons - age, cost to travel to fair.
Answer - if your friend wants to go to the fair, let her go.
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
SJ is right.
You and your friend are in a classic situation where two intelligent, informed, reasonable people have access to similar information, and have reached different conclusions.
Your concern for her is kind, but quite honestly, since you've voiced your opinion already, you've done your part.
This being her life, let her live it.
You and your friend are in a classic situation where two intelligent, informed, reasonable people have access to similar information, and have reached different conclusions.
Your concern for her is kind, but quite honestly, since you've voiced your opinion already, you've done your part.
This being her life, let her live it.
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
Thanks for all of your feedback. I convinced my friend to reach out again to the few schools going to the fair that were listing her position. None showed any interest in her and she came to the same conclusion last week that I came to earlier - that she was wasting her time going to the fair. She cancelled. Even though it's break time, she has already applied to a few more positions with other schools (that are not going to the fair) and she is hopeful that she will find something by spring. At least she won't waste the money going to the fair and can still search over the coming weeks.
Re: Convincing My Friend Not to Go
@marina,
I hope you were right for your friend. I think it's both hard to land a job at the fair at that age AND hard to land a job by just sending out virtual applications. Either way she is probably in for a long haul.
From what I have heard, the fairs this year are going to be a bit less robust with positions. People are simply staying put or schools are listing and hiring in the fall.
By the way, how is your position going? Was it worth it leaving international education for the $$?
I hope you were right for your friend. I think it's both hard to land a job at the fair at that age AND hard to land a job by just sending out virtual applications. Either way she is probably in for a long haul.
From what I have heard, the fairs this year are going to be a bit less robust with positions. People are simply staying put or schools are listing and hiring in the fall.
By the way, how is your position going? Was it worth it leaving international education for the $$?