Must-have experiences
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TheCloudRunner
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:25 pm
Must-have experiences
I asked a question on this forum before but received pretty much zero feedback so I thought I would try a different angle. I am currently studying to become a school counselor. What do you suggest are some absolute must-have experiences as a school counselor I should have here in the states before trying to work as a school counselor internationally?
Response
Short Answer: The best experience you could get for IE is some experience.
Long Answer:
That seems kind of loopy but from your earlier posts as I understand it you are finishing a Counselor program this year you have a few hundred hours of field work, but you went right from undergrad to graduate school which is where you are now. You have a lot of white space on your resume. There are two primary components that make up an ITs resume and thats what they have done (experience, exam scores, etc.) and what they can do (degrees, certifications, etc.) of the two experience rules.
All the little things you could do or expose yourself too in Uni havent been tested in the real world for you. Everything youve done has been studied, or done under supervision, or mentorship, you havent taken off the training wheels. You havent managed a case load that you are ultimately responsible for. You havent made the calls that you take full responsibility for. There has always been someone in the background to make sure you dont mess up a childs life.
The general consensus of the major contributors (and thats a rare outcome) is that ITs need 2 years post certification experience before meeting the bar of entry into IT. Its more flexible in the case of counselors, but you dont have experience in anything remotely connected or transferable to IE or DE or edu.
What does an IE Counselors skill set need to be:
1) Knowledge and experience in career/Uni Counseling: I know you stated in your earlier post that it wasnt relevant to the age group you were considering and thats fine, but its a very small minority of ISs that are large enough to have multiple counselors. Most medium and small ISs have a whole school counselor and that is it, you have to do everything including career/Uni counseling. Counseling programs generally do this poorly if at all, and the challenge to the IE counselor is you need to be proficient and knowledgeable in both US and UK Uni counseling, more marketable would include CAN and AUS.
If you have time, an internship, mentorship, practicum, employment, even work study in the admissions office or enrollment management would give you some utility in this aspect. If you can add "Admissions Officer" to your resume even at a State Uni will be an advantage.
2) SPED/SEN/LD/LS Familiarity: In the US districts have all manners of staff from SPED Chair, to SPED Directors, S.Psys, Psychometrician/Assessors, LS Coordinators all kind of people to do SPED tasks, in IE those tasks generally fall on the counselor and being literate in the terms and vocabulary and being able to parse and assemble reports will be very helpful.
3) Administrative/Management Tasks: Counselors often do the schedule (either a scheduling application or often just a spreadsheet) and transcript, aas well as a host of other tasks such as admissions and intake too tours too orientation. Counselors are junior leadership and report to senior leadership so when senior leadership has something, typically that involves aspects of student management level tasks it gets assigned to the counselor.
4) Student Management: All those things from seminars on study prep, and graduation seminars can get handed down to the Counselor. Counselors generally talk to students where senior leadership talks to parents. So if your IS is lite on coordinators or AP/VP/DPs than counselors get those tasks.
5) Public Relations: Counselors are often the face of leadership, they act as gate keepers between the trivial fluff stuff and the serious stuff that gets moved up to senior leadership. As such they need to be masters at agreeing without committing to anything while ABS (Always Be Smiling). A number of there tasks involve socializing with parents and other stakeholders from the morning coffee mixer to conferences.
6) Mental Health: You probably have this down. The mental health aspects very minor in the majority of IE. Homesickness, acute depression, body image disorders, thats about it. You will rarely be asked to do any testing, but WAIS/WISC/WIPI, the Stanford Binnet, and the Strong Interest Inventory are about all you will need for psychometric. In addition to the range of achievement tests (SAT/ACT/AP/IB/SATS/IGCSE/A*
Long Answer:
That seems kind of loopy but from your earlier posts as I understand it you are finishing a Counselor program this year you have a few hundred hours of field work, but you went right from undergrad to graduate school which is where you are now. You have a lot of white space on your resume. There are two primary components that make up an ITs resume and thats what they have done (experience, exam scores, etc.) and what they can do (degrees, certifications, etc.) of the two experience rules.
All the little things you could do or expose yourself too in Uni havent been tested in the real world for you. Everything youve done has been studied, or done under supervision, or mentorship, you havent taken off the training wheels. You havent managed a case load that you are ultimately responsible for. You havent made the calls that you take full responsibility for. There has always been someone in the background to make sure you dont mess up a childs life.
The general consensus of the major contributors (and thats a rare outcome) is that ITs need 2 years post certification experience before meeting the bar of entry into IT. Its more flexible in the case of counselors, but you dont have experience in anything remotely connected or transferable to IE or DE or edu.
What does an IE Counselors skill set need to be:
1) Knowledge and experience in career/Uni Counseling: I know you stated in your earlier post that it wasnt relevant to the age group you were considering and thats fine, but its a very small minority of ISs that are large enough to have multiple counselors. Most medium and small ISs have a whole school counselor and that is it, you have to do everything including career/Uni counseling. Counseling programs generally do this poorly if at all, and the challenge to the IE counselor is you need to be proficient and knowledgeable in both US and UK Uni counseling, more marketable would include CAN and AUS.
If you have time, an internship, mentorship, practicum, employment, even work study in the admissions office or enrollment management would give you some utility in this aspect. If you can add "Admissions Officer" to your resume even at a State Uni will be an advantage.
2) SPED/SEN/LD/LS Familiarity: In the US districts have all manners of staff from SPED Chair, to SPED Directors, S.Psys, Psychometrician/Assessors, LS Coordinators all kind of people to do SPED tasks, in IE those tasks generally fall on the counselor and being literate in the terms and vocabulary and being able to parse and assemble reports will be very helpful.
3) Administrative/Management Tasks: Counselors often do the schedule (either a scheduling application or often just a spreadsheet) and transcript, aas well as a host of other tasks such as admissions and intake too tours too orientation. Counselors are junior leadership and report to senior leadership so when senior leadership has something, typically that involves aspects of student management level tasks it gets assigned to the counselor.
4) Student Management: All those things from seminars on study prep, and graduation seminars can get handed down to the Counselor. Counselors generally talk to students where senior leadership talks to parents. So if your IS is lite on coordinators or AP/VP/DPs than counselors get those tasks.
5) Public Relations: Counselors are often the face of leadership, they act as gate keepers between the trivial fluff stuff and the serious stuff that gets moved up to senior leadership. As such they need to be masters at agreeing without committing to anything while ABS (Always Be Smiling). A number of there tasks involve socializing with parents and other stakeholders from the morning coffee mixer to conferences.
6) Mental Health: You probably have this down. The mental health aspects very minor in the majority of IE. Homesickness, acute depression, body image disorders, thats about it. You will rarely be asked to do any testing, but WAIS/WISC/WIPI, the Stanford Binnet, and the Strong Interest Inventory are about all you will need for psychometric. In addition to the range of achievement tests (SAT/ACT/AP/IB/SATS/IGCSE/A*
Re: Must-have experiences
Being a parent certainly doesn't hurt but that may not be the kind of experience you are referring to
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TheCloudRunner
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:25 pm
Re: Must-have experiences
Thank you for your help @psyguy
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Must-have experiences
Hey @TheCloudRunner,
What age group are you thinking of working with internationally as a school counselor? The experiences recruiters are looking for tend to be slightly different depending on the age level you're targeting. I've worked both as a high school counselor and a college counselor.
My last school had 5 school counselors spread out over 3 divisions and we'd meet to talk about what we were doing every couple months. Our jobs were quite different depending on the division. My new school is larger with 4 school counselors just at the high school level.
I've known people working at small international schools where they are in charge of K-12 or 6 - 12 as well, which looks a lot different.
-Develop CBT skills for short-term counseling intervention. Some locations you might work there will be local psychiatrists/psychologists/community counselors, but other places it may be hard to find outside resources to refer out to. That can make for tough situations if there's a serious situation.
- Familiarize yourself with the International School Counselor Association's model for comprehensive programs (https://iscainfo.com/), which is based on the ASCA's model. There's a lot of movement regarding child protection issues at international schools, which can be tough because local governments may not have much in the way of laws or systems to deal with issues. Council of International Schools as an organization is getting involved in pushing this forward (http://www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=3842).
- It would probably be helpful for you to learn about the IBO's programs at the division you want to work (Diploma Program 11/12, Middle Years Program 6 - 10, Primary Years Program preK - 5) as lots of international schools are using IB curriculum these days. You don't have to do training on it, but understanding the approach can be very helpful.
- Find mentors who can help you when you once you're working overseas. If you end up at a school where you are the only counselor period or the only counselor in your division it's good to have people you can talk to about situations. Some overseas locations with have networks of international counselors who collaborate and support each other, but it's still good to have someone wherever you end up.
Be aware that SighGuy says a lot, but that doesn't mean he actually knows a lot. Take what he says with a pile of salt.
Good luck.
Elon
What age group are you thinking of working with internationally as a school counselor? The experiences recruiters are looking for tend to be slightly different depending on the age level you're targeting. I've worked both as a high school counselor and a college counselor.
My last school had 5 school counselors spread out over 3 divisions and we'd meet to talk about what we were doing every couple months. Our jobs were quite different depending on the division. My new school is larger with 4 school counselors just at the high school level.
I've known people working at small international schools where they are in charge of K-12 or 6 - 12 as well, which looks a lot different.
-Develop CBT skills for short-term counseling intervention. Some locations you might work there will be local psychiatrists/psychologists/community counselors, but other places it may be hard to find outside resources to refer out to. That can make for tough situations if there's a serious situation.
- Familiarize yourself with the International School Counselor Association's model for comprehensive programs (https://iscainfo.com/), which is based on the ASCA's model. There's a lot of movement regarding child protection issues at international schools, which can be tough because local governments may not have much in the way of laws or systems to deal with issues. Council of International Schools as an organization is getting involved in pushing this forward (http://www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=3842).
- It would probably be helpful for you to learn about the IBO's programs at the division you want to work (Diploma Program 11/12, Middle Years Program 6 - 10, Primary Years Program preK - 5) as lots of international schools are using IB curriculum these days. You don't have to do training on it, but understanding the approach can be very helpful.
- Find mentors who can help you when you once you're working overseas. If you end up at a school where you are the only counselor period or the only counselor in your division it's good to have people you can talk to about situations. Some overseas locations with have networks of international counselors who collaborate and support each other, but it's still good to have someone wherever you end up.
Be aware that SighGuy says a lot, but that doesn't mean he actually knows a lot. Take what he says with a pile of salt.
Good luck.
Elon
Re: Must-have experiences
You know, it's sad but true, everything that Psyguy has stated in this thread. It's crazy that someone would have to work like a dog to learn all the facets of counseling only to be removed when the wife of the new head moves in, is bored, and wants a job; yet, I have seen this happen too many times. Being a gossiping wife is not a qualification for the role of counselor. Similar to my timely Halloween theory, if you are assessing the quality of an international school, look to see who the counselor(s) is(are) and if even one of them is related to the head or one of the principals, run in the other direction.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Must-have experiences
I would additionally apply this theory in a limited capacity to EAL, sometimes middle school English, and sometimes primary, especially early childhood positions. Sometimes teachers who are qualified in these areas meet abroad and one of them goes into admin--in which case that theory doesn't apply--but sometimes the housewife-is-bored hiring happens. Some schools also prefer to hire one part of a pair and see how the fit is before they hire both as it is easier to get rid of one teacher with an unhappy spouse if the fit isn't right. So sometimes the hire really is a bored spouse who is actually qualified. I wouldn't say "run in the other direction," but I would say "exercise caution" and perhaps get some more information from an insider whenever possible to determine if the person was actually qualified or an appeasement hire.
Not relevant to this particular person, I know, but possible useful advice for others reading . . . .
Not relevant to this particular person, I know, but possible useful advice for others reading . . . .
Discussion
@reisgio
You might want to refine your model using attractiveness of the counselor as an indicator. If the counselor is one of those dresses, heels and huge ring on her finger shes probably someone in leadership/ownership who has a high maintenance spouse. The less attractive they are the more likely they are qualified and know what they are doing.
@TheCloudRunner
As I stated previously there is a small minority of ISs that have multiple counselors, but its a very small group and is mostly 1st tier ISs that have been successful and grown in size to accommodate them. the ISs that are going to be interested in a counselor with no experience (in counseling or education) are going to be the lower tier ISs that are whole school appointments.
Im sure you already have enough preparation in CBT, understand however your not going to have a case load of MH for several reasons:
1) Language barriers: While studnts may be at GE for academic work, its more probable they wont be able to have organic sessions in English about their primary complaint, if they have to struggle with the English they arent as likely to discuss MH issues.
2) In Western cultures its aceptable to do therapy, but thats not true in a lot of cultures where face is an important aspect of the culture and society. You just dont tell strangers your problems, you talk to a friend about it.
3) Parents are paying for teaching and education not counseling, you cant pull a student out of classes for a consult, meaning any scheduled consults will likely have to occur during ASPs meaning thats your ASP.
Parents who can afford tuition for an IS have resources to provide necessary MH, you arent a MH professional in a foreign country, your counseling residential is not a global license to practice. In the vast, vast majority of cases your referring out to anything that isnt acute.
As far as serious scenarios go you can easily go your whole career and not have anything even approaching serious.
Sure you can review the ISCA model, should take you a couple hours. Its also grossly American centered which is fine if youre in an actual AS. You should also then review the UK Model for Counseling in Schools here:
http://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio ... in-schools
COIS can push for whatever it wants, but until someone gives them handcuffs and badges, it really doesnt matter what they think. You will be limited to the resources you have available to you, and if things get messy parents can just vanish with their child. Too many counselors have just gotten it wrong, instructing faculty that they are "mandatory reporters" when they arent, or erring that reporting to leadership fulfills their duty when it doesnt.
IB would be very valuable especially if your at an IS and gert the job of IB Coordinator dumped on you out of the blue. To that end you should also familiarize yourself with AP and IGCSEs, but thats covered by the Uni Counselor tasking I discussed earlier since your likely to be responsible for the transcript.
Its not uncommon in IE for a position to be created for a trailing spouse when the IT has high value. Its more common for qualified IT partners where both ITs are credentialed but unqualified spouses especially in leadership will create positions including faculty appointments.
@Thames Pirate
I dont agree with the lower secondary English literature. EAL I would as well as EC/early primary where those programs are seen as child care with reading, and the thought is anyone can do it.
You might want to refine your model using attractiveness of the counselor as an indicator. If the counselor is one of those dresses, heels and huge ring on her finger shes probably someone in leadership/ownership who has a high maintenance spouse. The less attractive they are the more likely they are qualified and know what they are doing.
@TheCloudRunner
As I stated previously there is a small minority of ISs that have multiple counselors, but its a very small group and is mostly 1st tier ISs that have been successful and grown in size to accommodate them. the ISs that are going to be interested in a counselor with no experience (in counseling or education) are going to be the lower tier ISs that are whole school appointments.
Im sure you already have enough preparation in CBT, understand however your not going to have a case load of MH for several reasons:
1) Language barriers: While studnts may be at GE for academic work, its more probable they wont be able to have organic sessions in English about their primary complaint, if they have to struggle with the English they arent as likely to discuss MH issues.
2) In Western cultures its aceptable to do therapy, but thats not true in a lot of cultures where face is an important aspect of the culture and society. You just dont tell strangers your problems, you talk to a friend about it.
3) Parents are paying for teaching and education not counseling, you cant pull a student out of classes for a consult, meaning any scheduled consults will likely have to occur during ASPs meaning thats your ASP.
Parents who can afford tuition for an IS have resources to provide necessary MH, you arent a MH professional in a foreign country, your counseling residential is not a global license to practice. In the vast, vast majority of cases your referring out to anything that isnt acute.
As far as serious scenarios go you can easily go your whole career and not have anything even approaching serious.
Sure you can review the ISCA model, should take you a couple hours. Its also grossly American centered which is fine if youre in an actual AS. You should also then review the UK Model for Counseling in Schools here:
http://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio ... in-schools
COIS can push for whatever it wants, but until someone gives them handcuffs and badges, it really doesnt matter what they think. You will be limited to the resources you have available to you, and if things get messy parents can just vanish with their child. Too many counselors have just gotten it wrong, instructing faculty that they are "mandatory reporters" when they arent, or erring that reporting to leadership fulfills their duty when it doesnt.
IB would be very valuable especially if your at an IS and gert the job of IB Coordinator dumped on you out of the blue. To that end you should also familiarize yourself with AP and IGCSEs, but thats covered by the Uni Counselor tasking I discussed earlier since your likely to be responsible for the transcript.
Its not uncommon in IE for a position to be created for a trailing spouse when the IT has high value. Its more common for qualified IT partners where both ITs are credentialed but unqualified spouses especially in leadership will create positions including faculty appointments.
@Thames Pirate
I dont agree with the lower secondary English literature. EAL I would as well as EC/early primary where those programs are seen as child care with reading, and the thought is anyone can do it.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Must-have experiences
I said sometimes because those EAL-at-a-crap-school teachers sometimes get hired to teach English at that school because, well, if it's in English and you are a native speaker, of course you can teach 6th grade English, right? Obviously that is not always the case, and most English teacher admin spouses are actually proper teachers (particularly at the higher levels), but it does happen. But I agree that it is far less common.
Reply
@Thames Pirate
Well then we would be negligent to identify the male trailing spouses who teach lower secondary (year 6) social studies because what guy doesnt know history (What American male doesnt know US History, and what British gent doesnt know British history), or PE for that matter. Give a guy a whistle and some balls and what guy cant do sports.
Well then we would be negligent to identify the male trailing spouses who teach lower secondary (year 6) social studies because what guy doesnt know history (What American male doesnt know US History, and what British gent doesnt know British history), or PE for that matter. Give a guy a whistle and some balls and what guy cant do sports.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Must-have experiences
Whatever. Now you are just looking to pick a fight. I have said my piece and derailed this thread long enough.