DODEA Contract Problem
DODEA Contract Problem
Well I was offered a position at a DODEA school and sent in the acceptance letter. However, they had a problem with me still living in Japan (completing my student teaching at a DODEA School). Now they are saying I may not qualify for the housing benefit. Apparently this is only for US hires. I tried to explain I quit my job in Japan, then decided to finish out my student teaching at DODEA before I returned to the US this this summer. However, since I accepted the offer while in Japan, I guess it doesn't matter, they still want to hire me as a "Local Hire" without housing. Any advice for such a strange situation?? It seems I may have screwed myself by deciding to do my student teaching at DODEA, instead of stateside.
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Sorry to hear that. I was hired with DoDDS while teaching at an int'l school and was bale to get full benefits (the country I was in was not one with any DoDDS bases). I did have to prove that my school had recruited me from the states by offering me housing, travel etc. benefits.
I think it probably was a catch-22 that doing student teaching in a DoDDs school may have swayed them into hiring you, but the fact that you were not recruited from the states is costing you the benefits. It doesn't seem that you will have too many good options open to you.
Does the fact that you are finishing up your student teaching now mean that you are newly qualified teacher? If so, you are lucky in some way to get hired by DoDDS already. You could back out of the agreement, go back to the states, find a job and hope to get another interview/offer somewhere down the line that would give you the whole package. If you are in a very hard to fill area that might be an option.
Or, you take the job (is it also in Japan), become a permanent employee after two years, and then try and get a transfer out of your location. You would then pick up the benefits after making the move to your new duty station. The housing allowance etc. certainly helps with making a DoDDS gig a much more rewarding experience, but depending on your location and family situation, it could still be worth your while to take the job, get your foot in the door with DoDDS and play the long game. As a local hire, you should still get Post Allowance which is generally an additional $500 to 700 a month (tax free).
Congrats on getting hired and sympathy that you didn't get the full benefit offer.
I think it probably was a catch-22 that doing student teaching in a DoDDs school may have swayed them into hiring you, but the fact that you were not recruited from the states is costing you the benefits. It doesn't seem that you will have too many good options open to you.
Does the fact that you are finishing up your student teaching now mean that you are newly qualified teacher? If so, you are lucky in some way to get hired by DoDDS already. You could back out of the agreement, go back to the states, find a job and hope to get another interview/offer somewhere down the line that would give you the whole package. If you are in a very hard to fill area that might be an option.
Or, you take the job (is it also in Japan), become a permanent employee after two years, and then try and get a transfer out of your location. You would then pick up the benefits after making the move to your new duty station. The housing allowance etc. certainly helps with making a DoDDS gig a much more rewarding experience, but depending on your location and family situation, it could still be worth your while to take the job, get your foot in the door with DoDDS and play the long game. As a local hire, you should still get Post Allowance which is generally an additional $500 to 700 a month (tax free).
Congrats on getting hired and sympathy that you didn't get the full benefit offer.
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Thanks for your reply,
Yea unfortunately I was self employed while in Japan as a franchise owner of an english school. So there is no way I can prove housing was provided. So right now I am jobless and just finishing up my visa while student teaching, and on my way back to the US in July. So it looks like I accepted things a month too soon, or I would have been in the states to be hired. Yea my current DODEA school really wants to hire me, so perhaps they can work something out. And yes, I am a newly qualified teacher. I have been offered a job in China that does provide housing and yearly trips back to the states, so perhaps I could just wait it out in this position and eventually get back into the system. So how did you prove they recruited you from the states?
Cheers.
Yea unfortunately I was self employed while in Japan as a franchise owner of an english school. So there is no way I can prove housing was provided. So right now I am jobless and just finishing up my visa while student teaching, and on my way back to the US in July. So it looks like I accepted things a month too soon, or I would have been in the states to be hired. Yea my current DODEA school really wants to hire me, so perhaps they can work something out. And yes, I am a newly qualified teacher. I have been offered a job in China that does provide housing and yearly trips back to the states, so perhaps I could just wait it out in this position and eventually get back into the system. So how did you prove they recruited you from the states?
Cheers.
Response
What???
First, Local and CONUS and OCONUS have little to do with where you are and are more categories of employee. You cant really be a LH, as your going to need a sponsorship package (Im assuming your not married to a JP national, or have some other PR status of residency or arent otherwise sponsored by someone else either by family or marital relationship). You need a SOFA sponsorship to stay in the country. Aside from that your package isnt pieced together from various benefits. You get all the benefits that are in the category of employee you belong to. LQA is a benefit all (almost all) CONUS employees receive. That you were in JP when you signed the agreement isnt really relevant, unless you listed your HOR as JP.
I see three scenarios:
1) Someone doesnt want you and is looking for an excuse to dump you or you not take the position.
2) Someone doesnt know what they are doing and/or is confused about your status in JP. You need to talk to HR or your liaison.
3) You erred in completing your documentation and listed JP as your HOR, and so HR thinks that your a local hire. This is more difficult to fix, because if the vacancy requisition was completed for a local hire only and it was that basis that you accepted, then really you dont meet the requirements and they can pull the appointment because its not a CONUS position. However, if its a CONUS appointment than this needs to get corrected, in which case you need to contact HR.
Im going to refer you over to the DODEA board at Teachers.net, we deal exclusively with DODEA issues at that board.
https://teachers.net/mentors/DOD/
First, Local and CONUS and OCONUS have little to do with where you are and are more categories of employee. You cant really be a LH, as your going to need a sponsorship package (Im assuming your not married to a JP national, or have some other PR status of residency or arent otherwise sponsored by someone else either by family or marital relationship). You need a SOFA sponsorship to stay in the country. Aside from that your package isnt pieced together from various benefits. You get all the benefits that are in the category of employee you belong to. LQA is a benefit all (almost all) CONUS employees receive. That you were in JP when you signed the agreement isnt really relevant, unless you listed your HOR as JP.
I see three scenarios:
1) Someone doesnt want you and is looking for an excuse to dump you or you not take the position.
2) Someone doesnt know what they are doing and/or is confused about your status in JP. You need to talk to HR or your liaison.
3) You erred in completing your documentation and listed JP as your HOR, and so HR thinks that your a local hire. This is more difficult to fix, because if the vacancy requisition was completed for a local hire only and it was that basis that you accepted, then really you dont meet the requirements and they can pull the appointment because its not a CONUS position. However, if its a CONUS appointment than this needs to get corrected, in which case you need to contact HR.
Im going to refer you over to the DODEA board at Teachers.net, we deal exclusively with DODEA issues at that board.
https://teachers.net/mentors/DOD/
Reply
I was also hired while overseas into DoDDS, I didnt have to prove very much.
I agree with @WT123 that being hired by DoDDS right out of student teaching is extremely fortunate and lucky. Some people wait years and still never get hired. You literally won the golden ticket.
If you rescind the acceptance, you wont be eligible for further hiring this recruiting cycle.
Based on your updated information in your recent post, you would be classified as a local hire. You would not have been able to wait a month to accept the vacancy.
The only proof I had to provide was a copy of my IS contract that showed I was an OSH.
I agree with @WT123 that being hired by DoDDS right out of student teaching is extremely fortunate and lucky. Some people wait years and still never get hired. You literally won the golden ticket.
If you rescind the acceptance, you wont be eligible for further hiring this recruiting cycle.
Based on your updated information in your recent post, you would be classified as a local hire. You would not have been able to wait a month to accept the vacancy.
The only proof I had to provide was a copy of my IS contract that showed I was an OSH.
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Yea, I know my school really really wants me. And they will be going to bat for me, the principal said she is really going to fight it. Right now my visa is set to expire in February of 2018, and it was based on my job as an english teacher (the job I quit). My wife is Vietnamese and my dependent, and children are American/Vietnamese. So yes, we can't stay in country as a local. I tried to explain that to HR, but the woman I spoke with was quite nasty so hopefully my admin can have some sway. As for my home of record, I did put my US address, but I did say I was currently residing in Japan for the next few weeks while I complete my student teaching at DODEA. There was a spot for home of record (US), and current address (I used both the US and annotated Japan for the next 4 weeks). They said it was an issue of where I accepted the offer, i.e., I was in Japan at the time of acceptance. The woman told me I could be Sofa, and Local Hire, but no housing. Which doesn't really make sense, but it is the government. As for my application, I did put it in as an overseas hire, not local. So hopefully this is just a big mixup.
Reply
@base5555
Im confused where you an ET or a franchise owner of an ES, it would of otherwise made a difference.
Yeah your CONUS, you filled out the documentation correctly and someone in HR is a DB or a noob. The only way to be a LH and SOFA is if your part of someone elses sponsorship.
If your principal really wants you this is relatively easy to fix and push through. They go to the sup who goes to the area director and has there HR staff make it happen.
Im confused where you an ET or a franchise owner of an ES, it would of otherwise made a difference.
Yeah your CONUS, you filled out the documentation correctly and someone in HR is a DB or a noob. The only way to be a LH and SOFA is if your part of someone elses sponsorship.
If your principal really wants you this is relatively easy to fix and push through. They go to the sup who goes to the area director and has there HR staff make it happen.
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
If it is the school you are doing your student teaching at that is trying to hire you, then I can see you will have problems. You are currently in the commuting area of the school and they will probably always consider you a local hire. I assume the principal tried to hire you through the normal CONUS process (e.g. your name was on a list they pulled from HR)?
I just sent in a copy of my contract/offer letter for my then employer that showed I was getting housing and flights back at the beginning and end of my contract. No other questions asked.
It is a dilemma. If your goal is to teach with DoDDS even being a local hire would be a big step towards that goal. If you are willing to roll the dice, then take the China job and hope your chance comes again. The fact that you have a connection with a DoDDS admin could help you get another chance down the road to get the full DoDDS treatment. Or not. Some people do win the lottery more than once but most never get that call. Good luck with whatever you decide.
I just sent in a copy of my contract/offer letter for my then employer that showed I was getting housing and flights back at the beginning and end of my contract. No other questions asked.
It is a dilemma. If your goal is to teach with DoDDS even being a local hire would be a big step towards that goal. If you are willing to roll the dice, then take the China job and hope your chance comes again. The fact that you have a connection with a DoDDS admin could help you get another chance down the road to get the full DoDDS treatment. Or not. Some people do win the lottery more than once but most never get that call. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Yea, tough choice. DODEA only seems like a golden ticket when the housing is included. As for commenting area, we are 20km away, and about an hour and a half commute, so we would also have to move. Furthermore, I heard you have to work around 8 years before getting enough status for a transfer, and LQA is not a sure thing. Seems like a long time to just be scraping by, while all my other colleagues are getting paid a whole lot more. Now for the China job, they do provide housing and flights back to the US my home of record. I know it hasn't started yet but do you think that contract would work? Maybe a long shot.
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Yes, I was a franchise owner as well as a teacher for a two classroom school. So how would that help my situation? My current visa is Specialist in Humanities/International Service which is only valid for the job I quit, so definitely no Sofa or other sponsorship. We gotta go in Feb unless I find a job.
Reply
@base5555
Well if you were on a temporary business visa then you could show you didnt have long term residency in JP, essentially that you were just a short term visitor. You had a work status of residence though which is considered a long term status.
You are considered within the commuting area if you are within 50 miles.
Well LQA is a big part of your compensation but how much is the Chinese IS paying you considering your also on step 1 of whatever system they are using? The bottom of DoDDS is $43K the Chinese IS would have to be paying you more than RMB25K/month. Your post allowance alone would cover a 1DK.
But yes being ripped off of LQA would be significant.
Its a lot easier to transfer within region the sup just assigns you to a different complex. Getting a transfer from JP to MED is about 8 years.
It really depends on how hard your principal wants to push to get it fixed. You might have to go back to the US briefly, but it all really boils down to how much political currency your principal wants to burn to make it happen.
Well if you were on a temporary business visa then you could show you didnt have long term residency in JP, essentially that you were just a short term visitor. You had a work status of residence though which is considered a long term status.
You are considered within the commuting area if you are within 50 miles.
Well LQA is a big part of your compensation but how much is the Chinese IS paying you considering your also on step 1 of whatever system they are using? The bottom of DoDDS is $43K the Chinese IS would have to be paying you more than RMB25K/month. Your post allowance alone would cover a 1DK.
But yes being ripped off of LQA would be significant.
Its a lot easier to transfer within region the sup just assigns you to a different complex. Getting a transfer from JP to MED is about 8 years.
It really depends on how hard your principal wants to push to get it fixed. You might have to go back to the US briefly, but it all really boils down to how much political currency your principal wants to burn to make it happen.
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Thanks much PsyGuy and everyone else. Very helpful.
In China, I will have just over $40K/year after taxes, plus 3 bedroom apartment, utilities, and flights back to the US every year. Especially with cost of living differences, it would be a better quality of life. It is also a nice area and not too polluted. Anyways, I will see what our principal can do, but if not I will most likely turn it down with out LQA. I would be too bitter about not getting it while everyone else did. I also have a family so don't want to put them in a small place. Then I will just keep trying to get back. I have a 5-point veterans preference, so I don't feel it is a long shot. Anyways, I will update on whatever happens.
In China, I will have just over $40K/year after taxes, plus 3 bedroom apartment, utilities, and flights back to the US every year. Especially with cost of living differences, it would be a better quality of life. It is also a nice area and not too polluted. Anyways, I will see what our principal can do, but if not I will most likely turn it down with out LQA. I would be too bitter about not getting it while everyone else did. I also have a family so don't want to put them in a small place. Then I will just keep trying to get back. I have a 5-point veterans preference, so I don't feel it is a long shot. Anyways, I will update on whatever happens.
Reply
@base5555
Wow thats a first (which Ive seen a lot) Ive never heard anyone choose China (a hardship location) over a DoDDS appointment in JP. I understand though, not getting LQA and living in a 1DK while everyone else is getting LQA and living in 3SLDKs would taste pretty foul in your gut.
Veteran preference doesnt mean very much, principals can get who they want regardless of vet preference, but what you really have in your favor is an admin who likes you and has positive things to personally and professionally say about you, that more than anything is going to be your way back in.
Hopefully your principal has motivation to make this happen, its doable.
Wow thats a first (which Ive seen a lot) Ive never heard anyone choose China (a hardship location) over a DoDDS appointment in JP. I understand though, not getting LQA and living in a 1DK while everyone else is getting LQA and living in 3SLDKs would taste pretty foul in your gut.
Veteran preference doesnt mean very much, principals can get who they want regardless of vet preference, but what you really have in your favor is an admin who likes you and has positive things to personally and professionally say about you, that more than anything is going to be your way back in.
Hopefully your principal has motivation to make this happen, its doable.
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Yea it is a really tough choice. However, I have spent nearly 8 years in Japan so kinda getting the itch to go somewhere else anyways. Also with a family and no LQA, that would also make Japan a financial hardship location.
Now I've lived in Vietnam for 2 years, and loved my time there, so I see China similar to that experience with a wide range of travel opportunities. The school is also good, staff very friendly, and a very nice place for my kids. Also China is more developed than Vn and the city I'm going to is much less polluted than where I was in Vietnam. So I don't really see it as a hardship.
Yea, I have two principals who really love me in DODEA, and they will write recommendations on my behalf for sure. So I definitely think I have a way back in eventually. In the mean time, we will have a bit of an adventure.
Now I've lived in Vietnam for 2 years, and loved my time there, so I see China similar to that experience with a wide range of travel opportunities. The school is also good, staff very friendly, and a very nice place for my kids. Also China is more developed than Vn and the city I'm going to is much less polluted than where I was in Vietnam. So I don't really see it as a hardship.
Yea, I have two principals who really love me in DODEA, and they will write recommendations on my behalf for sure. So I definitely think I have a way back in eventually. In the mean time, we will have a bit of an adventure.
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: DODEA Contract Problem
Sounds like you are making a good decision for you and your family. Local hires do not qualify for LQA etc BUT virtually all local hires have a sponsor that does, so yes, you would be in a minority.
I was hired by DoDDS while working in China, so it definitely can happen. We enjoyed our few years in China and that was even being in a location that was very polluted (Beijing).
Good luck with everything.
I was hired by DoDDS while working in China, so it definitely can happen. We enjoyed our few years in China and that was even being in a location that was very polluted (Beijing).
Good luck with everything.