Recommended doctoral programs
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HereThereEverywhere
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Recommended doctoral programs
Has anyone had or heard of good experience with Ed.D or Ph.D programs that are online or (preferably) hybrid? Are there any schools you would say to stay away from?
Re: Recommended doctoral programs
On the hybrid side, check out Bath and Durham in the UK. Both rank high on the UK tables, and they offer intensive summer programs with course work then completed remotely over the school year.
University of Minnesota also has a similar program, I believe.
University of Minnesota also has a similar program, I believe.
Response
I would first strongly look at Unis that are local to you. A number of strong foreign Unis are offering English based programs. Also understand that the US approach and the EU approach to doctoral training are different. In the US almost all programs are taught programs and take 5-8 years to complete. Outside the US these taught doctoral programs exist as well, but they also offer research doctoral programs that are entirely dependent on completion of your dissertation. You can complete these programs in 3 years, sometimes a little less. You can be released from residency requirement while completing your dissertation.
You really only find online programs for doctoral training in the US, outside of the US it would be distance education, and those programs are largely research doctorates. The rational being that if you want a taught degree, you need and want to be on campus.
I would also recommend Uni Bath.
You really only find online programs for doctoral training in the US, outside of the US it would be distance education, and those programs are largely research doctorates. The rational being that if you want a taught degree, you need and want to be on campus.
I would also recommend Uni Bath.
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HereThereEverywhere
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Re: Recommended doctoral programs
@yoplay I can't seem to find a Phd/Edd for Bath. I will check out Durham, thanks. Minnesota looks great, but cohorts only run every 3 years and the next opening would be in 2020. Thanks for the tips.
@ Psyguy, Thanks. I will ask around to see if the unis around me offer anything, but I kind of doubt it. My area is just not a great place for that kind of thing. Thanks for the info on the EU style programs, I hadn't realized that. Huh, also recommending Bath. I'm looking at their web page, but I only see a master's distance learning, not doctoral/research.
@ Psyguy, Thanks. I will ask around to see if the unis around me offer anything, but I kind of doubt it. My area is just not a great place for that kind of thing. Thanks for the info on the EU style programs, I hadn't realized that. Huh, also recommending Bath. I'm looking at their web page, but I only see a master's distance learning, not doctoral/research.
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@HereThereEverywhere
The M.Phil and Ph.D are both research degrees. You can find them here:
www.bath.ac.uk/study/pg/programmes/educ-mphi/
They also offer a Ed.D as a taught program:
www.bath.ac.uk/study/pg/programmes/doct-of-educ/
In addition there is an M.Res (Education) which is a Masters of Research comparable to an M.S. Education from the US.
www.bath.ac.uk/study/pg/programmes/mast-of-rese-educ/
Bath offers a number of taught Masters (M.A. Education) including an IB Masters in International Education that includes a IB T&L certificate and a MA TESOL in English language acquisition.
Research degrees are not distance or online directly, there is a minimum amount of contact you must have with your committee, but this can be done over a virtual conferencing tool. Its not uncommon for probationary researchers (what your title is as a research Ph.D candidate) to spend some time during the summer in campus residence. Aside from that the process of petitioning for release from residency is simple and straightforward.
The M.Phil and Ph.D are both research degrees. You can find them here:
www.bath.ac.uk/study/pg/programmes/educ-mphi/
They also offer a Ed.D as a taught program:
www.bath.ac.uk/study/pg/programmes/doct-of-educ/
In addition there is an M.Res (Education) which is a Masters of Research comparable to an M.S. Education from the US.
www.bath.ac.uk/study/pg/programmes/mast-of-rese-educ/
Bath offers a number of taught Masters (M.A. Education) including an IB Masters in International Education that includes a IB T&L certificate and a MA TESOL in English language acquisition.
Research degrees are not distance or online directly, there is a minimum amount of contact you must have with your committee, but this can be done over a virtual conferencing tool. Its not uncommon for probationary researchers (what your title is as a research Ph.D candidate) to spend some time during the summer in campus residence. Aside from that the process of petitioning for release from residency is simple and straightforward.
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HereThereEverywhere
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Re: Recommended doctoral programs
Just FYI for those who see this in the future, George Mason University is beginning a summer program in 2018 for PhD https://gse.gmu.edu/phd-in-education/ph ... ialization
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@HereThereEverywhere
Thats a 7 year program combining taught and research years, and at USD$24K/year thats USD$175K for a degree. You would very much have to be comfortable not making that type of coin back during your career. Doing a research doctoral degree over three years even as an international student is GBP£14K/year is GBP£42K, thats less than a third of the cost and half the time.
Thats a 7 year program combining taught and research years, and at USD$24K/year thats USD$175K for a degree. You would very much have to be comfortable not making that type of coin back during your career. Doing a research doctoral degree over three years even as an international student is GBP£14K/year is GBP£42K, thats less than a third of the cost and half the time.
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HereThereEverywhere
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Re: Recommended doctoral programs
@Psyguy, where are you getting your numbers from? It is a 4 minimum year program according to them. As for tuition, I've had no luck finding the information on this specific program, but I've asked them for more information and will post it here when I receive it. If you are right about the tuition, even if 4 years not 7, that would be too hefty a price to pay.
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@HereThereEverywhere
Im getting it from the citation you referenced:
"Participation in the IEEL program specializations will ensure that your COURSEWORK IS COMPLETE OVER THREE YEARS (three summers and six semesters). Once students advance to candidacy they have FOUR YEARS to complete their doctoral dissertation."
Coursework (Taught Program) 3 years.
Research (Dissertation) 4 years.
3 years + 4 years = 7 years.
Tuition rated can be found here:
www2.gmu.edu/admissions-aid/paying-for-college
Its USD$24,170/year, multiply that by the 7 years above, and its about USD$175,000
If you want it broken down by credit hour you can find the cost per credit here:
studentaccounts.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/Spring2017Graduate.pdf
In which case its USD$1,341/credit
This doesnt count books, and ancillary fees.
GMU has always been pricey, and your going to pay thrice the UK rate (and this is for a top UK Uni) and its going to take you twice as long. You need to cut the tuition rate by 70% to reach equivalence (given you have no book costs, etc. when doing a research degree).
Id love to see the math how you get the GMU program down to parity?
Im getting it from the citation you referenced:
"Participation in the IEEL program specializations will ensure that your COURSEWORK IS COMPLETE OVER THREE YEARS (three summers and six semesters). Once students advance to candidacy they have FOUR YEARS to complete their doctoral dissertation."
Coursework (Taught Program) 3 years.
Research (Dissertation) 4 years.
3 years + 4 years = 7 years.
Tuition rated can be found here:
www2.gmu.edu/admissions-aid/paying-for-college
Its USD$24,170/year, multiply that by the 7 years above, and its about USD$175,000
If you want it broken down by credit hour you can find the cost per credit here:
studentaccounts.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/Spring2017Graduate.pdf
In which case its USD$1,341/credit
This doesnt count books, and ancillary fees.
GMU has always been pricey, and your going to pay thrice the UK rate (and this is for a top UK Uni) and its going to take you twice as long. You need to cut the tuition rate by 70% to reach equivalence (given you have no book costs, etc. when doing a research degree).
Id love to see the math how you get the GMU program down to parity?
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HereThereEverywhere
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Re: Recommended doctoral programs
@Psyguy, I think you are making a too fast a judgement. Those graduate programs in education for the PhD also currently say, "We do not offer online classes." There may be a totally separate fee structure for this course. I've seen it both ways among the courses/universities I've research lately, one for online program and one for in house.
It also states this on the current page for the PhD in Ed. program, "The average length of time is four to six years. Full time students can usually complete the program in four years." and it states that for the college of education, "The out-of-state tuition discount is approximately 40% off the university’s approved rate for out-of-state graduate students"
If I were to take that optimistically, that is 4x USD$24,170/year = 96,680*.6= 58,008 From the programs I've looked at lately they range from 24k up to 70k USD with most resting in the 35-40k range.
Bottom line, I will wait until I hear from them before I see if I am personally interested, but it is information that could be useful to others no matter what the outcome. Let's get it right. I'll post back here with whatever information they give me.
It also states this on the current page for the PhD in Ed. program, "The average length of time is four to six years. Full time students can usually complete the program in four years." and it states that for the college of education, "The out-of-state tuition discount is approximately 40% off the university’s approved rate for out-of-state graduate students"
If I were to take that optimistically, that is 4x USD$24,170/year = 96,680*.6= 58,008 From the programs I've looked at lately they range from 24k up to 70k USD with most resting in the 35-40k range.
Bottom line, I will wait until I hear from them before I see if I am personally interested, but it is information that could be useful to others no matter what the outcome. Let's get it right. I'll post back here with whatever information they give me.
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HereThereEverywhere
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Re: Reply
> GMU has always been pricey, and your going to pay thrice the UK rate
Thrice the UK rate would be about right if you are taking GMU at the values you indicated.
University of Bath has tuition for out of state/country as being 15,200BP a year and the program for a PhD at 2-4 years. Optimistically that is 2x15,200= 30,400BP in today’s conversion 36987 USD.
That would put Bath on parity with some of the slightly cheaper US institutions.
Thrice the UK rate would be about right if you are taking GMU at the values you indicated.
University of Bath has tuition for out of state/country as being 15,200BP a year and the program for a PhD at 2-4 years. Optimistically that is 2x15,200= 30,400BP in today’s conversion 36987 USD.
That would put Bath on parity with some of the slightly cheaper US institutions.
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@HereThereEverywhere
Research PhDs have no classes. There is nothing online to take or F2F to take. This is true they could have a totally separate fee structure, but even if we take your numbers at face value were still talking $37K vs. $58K. That is not a trivial difference, they would have to really cut the fees and give you some kind of assurances you could finish in the four years, because just adding one more year at 5 years is going to inflate the overall cost of the program by a lot.
It also assumes you will get the Ph.D done in 4 years which if three years of it are taught youd have to go into the program with a research proposal ready to be approved and move forward with your dissertation from day one. I just dont see how you could reasonably complete a dissertation in a year from cover to cover in a year.
This is Bath though, its not like anyone is going to confuse Bath with OxBridge, its not but bath is still in the top 10 Unis (given there are a lot fewer Unis in the UK than there are in the US), but no ones going to be impressed by a degree from GMU. That said Bath is pricey as well, you can certainly find less expensive, Uni Portsmouth had an Ed.D part-time thats £6300/year, over 4 years thats USD$$31K for the program.
http://www.port.ac.uk/courses/education ... education/
All that aside lets look at the cost in time and resources. Youre essentially doing three years of classes AND a dissertation, and at doctoral level each of those courses is going to be a 20 page paper, multiply that by the courses your doing and youre effectively writing two dissertations, and thats not counting all the other course classwork you have to do, like reading case studies, and pouring over data sets. Theres that time, and in the end the only thing any one will care about or ask you about is where you graduated from and what was your dissertation. No one cares about coursework, and none of its going to make you a better practitioner.
Research PhDs have no classes. There is nothing online to take or F2F to take. This is true they could have a totally separate fee structure, but even if we take your numbers at face value were still talking $37K vs. $58K. That is not a trivial difference, they would have to really cut the fees and give you some kind of assurances you could finish in the four years, because just adding one more year at 5 years is going to inflate the overall cost of the program by a lot.
It also assumes you will get the Ph.D done in 4 years which if three years of it are taught youd have to go into the program with a research proposal ready to be approved and move forward with your dissertation from day one. I just dont see how you could reasonably complete a dissertation in a year from cover to cover in a year.
This is Bath though, its not like anyone is going to confuse Bath with OxBridge, its not but bath is still in the top 10 Unis (given there are a lot fewer Unis in the UK than there are in the US), but no ones going to be impressed by a degree from GMU. That said Bath is pricey as well, you can certainly find less expensive, Uni Portsmouth had an Ed.D part-time thats £6300/year, over 4 years thats USD$$31K for the program.
http://www.port.ac.uk/courses/education ... education/
All that aside lets look at the cost in time and resources. Youre essentially doing three years of classes AND a dissertation, and at doctoral level each of those courses is going to be a 20 page paper, multiply that by the courses your doing and youre effectively writing two dissertations, and thats not counting all the other course classwork you have to do, like reading case studies, and pouring over data sets. Theres that time, and in the end the only thing any one will care about or ask you about is where you graduated from and what was your dissertation. No one cares about coursework, and none of its going to make you a better practitioner.
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HereThereEverywhere
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Re: Recommended doctoral programs
@Psyguy
I've gotten word back and based on their numbers the cost for completion in 4 years, which they expect, is just the tiniest over 50k USD. Still, a bit of an expensive option all things compared.
There are other programs in the US that offer cheaper, U. Minnesota mentioned earlier, for example, lower than 40k.
I've heard students of GMU speak well, but it isn't worth it for me at that price.
I've gotten word back and based on their numbers the cost for completion in 4 years, which they expect, is just the tiniest over 50k USD. Still, a bit of an expensive option all things compared.
There are other programs in the US that offer cheaper, U. Minnesota mentioned earlier, for example, lower than 40k.
I've heard students of GMU speak well, but it isn't worth it for me at that price.
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@HereThereEverywhere
Id really like to hear how they arrived at those numbers. I assume they have a special rate for the program based on its delivery and its novelty (new programs start out less expensive and with lower admission standards for their first cohort or equivalent). The other issue is they are using the program minimum of 4 years, which I cant see how you can do a dissertation in one year unless you start before youve finished the taught program.
Yes there are cheaper but I can get the EU and UK a lot cheaper as well, simply by moving/relocating to an IS in the EU, which qualifies you for the much lower rate which would drop Portsmouths Ed.D from £6300/year to £2,570/year a reduction of almost 60% which is about USD$13K for the four years. Bath is a little higher than that. The only cheaper youd fine is in a EU Uni that doesnt charge tuition fees at all, where all your paying is registration fees and you can do a research dissertation assuming the language of instruction is non-English.
Id really like to hear how they arrived at those numbers. I assume they have a special rate for the program based on its delivery and its novelty (new programs start out less expensive and with lower admission standards for their first cohort or equivalent). The other issue is they are using the program minimum of 4 years, which I cant see how you can do a dissertation in one year unless you start before youve finished the taught program.
Yes there are cheaper but I can get the EU and UK a lot cheaper as well, simply by moving/relocating to an IS in the EU, which qualifies you for the much lower rate which would drop Portsmouths Ed.D from £6300/year to £2,570/year a reduction of almost 60% which is about USD$13K for the four years. Bath is a little higher than that. The only cheaper youd fine is in a EU Uni that doesnt charge tuition fees at all, where all your paying is registration fees and you can do a research dissertation assuming the language of instruction is non-English.
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HereThereEverywhere
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Re: Recommended doctoral programs
Hey @PsyGuy,
Well, I’ve made it to EU residency so I am ready to consider a UK/EU program. However, Brexit is on the horizon so I am not sure if I should be applying to UK universities for that doctorate. Do you know of good programs within the EU for a doctorate by distance learning?
Well, I’ve made it to EU residency so I am ready to consider a UK/EU program. However, Brexit is on the horizon so I am not sure if I should be applying to UK universities for that doctorate. Do you know of good programs within the EU for a doctorate by distance learning?