From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

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teachjzy
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:40 pm

From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by teachjzy »

I've been teaching abroad for 8 years at secondary schools and colleges in Hungary, Japan and Saudi Arabia. Now I want to transition into being a secondary school subject teacher and working at an international school in perhaps Singapore or Malaysia.

About me:

B.A. Urban Studies: Community Development
CELTA + misc. ESL certs
8 years experience.
U.S. Citizen

My idea is to get the Utah APT 1 teacher cert. in English Language Arts or Social Studies(they only allow 1 endorsement). Transfer that to QTS. Then, obtain a Masters in Education online.

Questions:

1. Should I get my endorsement for ELA or Social Studies? ELA because of my work experience or Social Studies because of my degree? I enjoy the idea of teaching both. I would eventually try to figure out how to get a 2nd endorsement. Maybe by transferring teacher certs to another state.

2. Is it better to get an M.Ed, M.A. or M.S in education or does it matter?

3. Does if matter if the University I obtain the online masters from has a psychical campus? The school will know I wasn't there as I'm planning to work abroad while obtaining the degree. What do you think about Western Governors University(WGU)? The price is right. Anything I should look for or avoid in an online program?

4. Any other paths you would suggest?

Thank you in advance and thank you Pysguy(I've been reading your post)
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by helloiswill »

I don't think you will be able to transition directly to Singapore or Malaysia due to the 5 year teaching experience visa requirement they have. I know Singapore has this and I believe Malaysia has either the same requirement or something approaching it (this experience must be at an international school or domestic school while licensed). From what you listed in your experience I'm not sure this would count towards that visa requirement. However, someone with more direct experience in these countries may know better.

I would expect the ELA endorsement to have a better chance of getting you a job. Some lower tier schools do see ET experience as a positive despite what the general consensus on the forum is. You could also think about getting a proper ESL state certification, that would combine even better with your past ET experience. Looking back now you don't say what you were teaching while in Hungry/SA, I assume it was ESL because of your CELTA and ESL certs.... if not this advice might not be applicable.

I can't say enough about taking two years off from teaching ESL abroad to do an alternative certification program through TFA/TNTP. Thats what I did and I'm about to head back out again with a much improved resume and as a vastly improved teacher. Anyway, best of luck. I'm sure other will have more specific advice.
buffalofan
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by buffalofan »

If I read this correctly, you have been teaching ESL without a cert up until now. The problem with this is that you don't have 8 years of experience, you have zero, so you will find it next to impossible to break into an international school in Singapore or Malaysia. Schools will not count ESL experience (as someone who taught ESL for 5 years before getting certified, I can tell you that this is the hard truth). If you can get certified, you could probably land something in the Middle East or China if you are not too picky.
teachjzy
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:40 pm

Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by teachjzy »

Sorry, I'm not able to edit my post for some reason.

Yes, I've been teaching ESL in public secondary schools and private colleges.

The Utah cert. currently does not have an ESL endorsement option.
http://schools.utah.gov/cert/NCLB/PRAXISTestChart.aspx

Perhaps I should focus on colleges.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

UT does have an ESOL endorsement but its not an eligible APT pathway, its only available through a LEA PD pathway or a traditional Uni pathway.

You dont have any viable experience in Literature, your ESOL experience has nothing relevant to ELA/Lit. Once you have QTS you dont need additional certifications. With the UT APT level 1 license and QTS after three years you could apply for the HI Standard credential (Professional grade), and then add additional endorsements by completing PRAXIS exams.

You would have more utility in social studies than Lit considering you have no applicable experience and no academic background in Lit./ELA. Social Studies/Humanities is a broader field as well.

It doesnt matter the inscription of the degree, as long as the title is inscribed in "Education". The focus/concentration (Ed.Ld, C&I, etc) is more important to utility and marketability than the inscription. An M.Ed is slightly more recognized than an MS, MA, MAT, etc.

Some regions (ME) have restrictions on the validity/acceptance of online degrees. It greatly depends on what the Uni puts on the degree and transcript. A Uni with a physical campus has the option of indistinguishing their distance/online programs from onsite programs.

Its an accredited Uni, there are better and less expensive places to get a degree.

I would suggest starting your search in your home state, resident tuition is generally the least expensive. i would also strongly suggest looking at a foreign Uni such as the UK (Portsmouth), or a location in the EU that would offer greatly reduced if not near free fees for a distance/online program.

I agree with @helloiswill you arent going to be very marketable in the regions of Malaysia or SG. The experience requirement is easy to get around your ESOL experience (8 years would likely qualify in terms of getting a visa and work pass). I disagree that your ET experience has any value in IE.
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by helloiswill »

@psyguy
"I agree with @helloiswill you arent going to be very marketable in the regions of Malaysia or SG. The experience requirement is easy to get around your ESOL experience (8 years would likely qualify in terms of getting a visa and work pass). I disagree that your ET experience has any value in IE."

I know its purely anecdotal on my part, however, a few IS's were interested in hearing about my 2 years as an ET in Taiwan. I think ET experience becomes more of an asset if it is combined with a few years teaching domestically. The schools that told me that they looked on it favorably were schools in China. I get the sense that it proved to them that I I knew what I was getting into and that I might know some of the cultural nuances of working in China. You can spin time as an ET to your advantage but it most definitely isn't going to make your resume look any better. This being said, I think we can agree the ET is not the golden ticket many current bushiban/hogwan teachers think it is and may even be a disadvantage if not combined with "real" teaching experience.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@helloiswill

Of course they showed interest, what else where they supposed to talk about? They are making small talk as part of the social contract. An IT without any IE experience who only has a few years of ES experience makes it very difficult to have a conversation about meds/peds. If all of their questions were prefaced with "setting your ES experience aside for the moment", you would be stuck without having anything to draw upon to respond to their questions.

ET experience can accelerate DT and IT experience, and for some ISs that have a very large local host population it provides some credibility that you can work with ELLs, and you arent going to run when confronted by a class that really isnt at GE for studying a subject within their academic ZPD. None of that though relates to any value that an IS is going to comp you for.

You can spin ET especially if you can make it look like being an IT, thats the only focus of spin in an ET scenario. If you can flex the experience across the line from EAP (or less) to EP then it can have utility.

Add professional credentials and wed agree, you have a much easier time spinning EAP experience as EP if you have a professional credential. Id argue (at least for a little while) that the credential makes the experience more than the tasking makes the experience. You could be delivering an EP program in say a primary environment as an HRT and if all you have is a DELTA/CELTA that experience is going to have less utility than an IT working in a primary environment who is providing an EAP program, since its easier to spin the latter as 'academic' and its a much harder sell that anything with an ET certificate is going to be anything more than ESOL, regardless of the tasking or what the classroom looked like.
helloiswill
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Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by helloiswill »

@psyguy

"Of course they showed interest, what else where they supposed to talk about? They are making small talk as part of the social contract."

I suppose I was vague in my original reply but when I said that they "showed interest" I don't mean that they asked me for recommendations on a good noodle shop in Taipei. I mean they told me explicitly that I was an attractive candidate to them for several reasons, one of them being that I had experience living and working in China/Taiwan. Obviously, one of the most difficult aspects of teaching in China is, well, the China part. They had teachers who signed on in the past but couldn't deal with the pollution and cultural differences that come along with living in the Middle Kingdom. Knowing that a teacher wasn't going to jump ship by xmas gave the admin some peace of mind I suppose. This view is certainly not held in all HR/Admin offices however ET experience is neither useless nor a black mark on a resume if you know how to market yourself.

To the OP... bottom line is you're going to need to make yourself standout, unfortunately, your ESL experience isn't going to do that on its own. You will probably need to supplement it with something more substantial than a credential.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@helloiswill

Than they werent interested in your ET experience they were interested in your OS living experience and being able to cope ina foreign environment. What you were doing at that time was really irrelevant, you could have been working as an accountant at a multinational or at Uni, and they would have been interested for reasons others that the professional experience.
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by helloiswill »

@psyguy

I absolutely agree. Few schools would be interested in the pedagogical experience gleaned from teaching in a cram school. However, OS living experience is part of the ET experience... I haven't met many ET's teaching here in the states, though ,I've been to some parts of West Virginia that could probably use them. Spinning ET experience into OS living experience is just one example of what I meant when I said to market yourself. Though, I think we're stuck a bit in semantics. My original feeling was, during an interview, its easier to smooth over the transition of ET to certified ESL teacher than from ET to social studies or other unrelated subject areas. For that reason, I thought ESL might be a good route for the OP, but apparently, Utah doesn't offer that option. Best of luck teachjzy.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@helloiswill

We agree on the substantial issues I believe. I dont want to elude to our readership that ES experience is something that has value, because then some ET gets it in their mind again that what they are doing in a cram ES is somehow "teaching" and that if you have enough of it it equals to some portion of IE experience. I think wed agree that there is no formula that X amount of ES experience equals Y amount of IE experience?
OS living experience is valuable is true and a different factor all its own and separate from professional/work experience, and the PGASS accounts for this as separate factors/variables.
helloiswill
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by helloiswill »

That's fair. I'd certainly agree with that.
joe30
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Re: From ESL to English/Social studies teacher path?

Post by joe30 »

When I was interviewing, I basically used my ESL experience to say 'I've got experience living overseas and so you know I'm not going to be running back to the UK as soon as something goes wrong'.

All the actual 'teaching' questions I was asked I drew on my experience while on PGCE school placement, figuring the recruiter isn't going to be all that interested that I stood up in front of a bunch of local 7 year olds, played some games and let them watch some movies in English.
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