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Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:19 pm
by counselme
I thought I would start some discussions on ISR. Seems a bit dormant at times.

Which recruiting agencies do you prefer: Schrole, ISS, SA, TIE online, TeacherHorizons etc.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:41 pm
by Thames Pirate
Search Associates is by far the best choice for the big agencies. Schrole is still new, and it is mostly an online application tool rather than a true agency.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:34 pm
by Lastname_Z
I've so far been wary in my (admittedly very short) IT career (and teaching in general) of recruiting agencies. I just saw that the last Tier 3 school I worked at (which I hated) was able to put themselves on Search Associates and a good friend of mine is also hating his current school that he got in touch with through Search Associates. We both moved to different schools at the same time and I ended up far happier of the two of us (especially since I didn't have to pay a cent, I just applied to the school directly).

SA asks for a lot of money from you considering the quality of some schools on there.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:52 am
by yoplay
I've been an ISS person for over a decade. I was happy with their fairs that I attended, but I also went in with reasonable expectations. I picked them as a bit of a coin flip between them and Search, as I really couldn't discern a meaningful difference between the two. This has changed over the last couple of years, IMO. This year was the second consecutive year that Search BKK had a far better list of top tier schools attending than ISS BKK. These are the only schools I'm interested in teaching at, so at the end of the day my choice will solely be determined on who has the most schools I would want to interview with. If this trend continues, I'll be making a switch to Search the next time I head out for a new post.

The shift to schools using Skype and Schrole has been well documented on this board. As far as I can tell, the only school in Asia that has gone 100% committed to that route (although without Schrole, just through their own website) is SAS. Maybe they'll attend the east coast fairs- I haven't followed those as closely. It'll be very interesting to see if other top schools follow this action going forward.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:04 am
by Thames Pirate
We also started with ISS, and we were told by a recruiter that schools were switching to Search and that this was his (top tier) school's last year with ISS. This was 6 years ago. I noticed that IS Stavanger, which has been with ISS for decades, is attending a Search fair and not an ISS fair for the first time since I started and probably since the 70s or something. That should be an indicator! I agree that top schools are more likely to attend a Search fair, and this is especially true of European schools--virtually all of them attend Search or CIS (if any) and not ISS.

Of course the agencies are going to represent bottom tier schools--they make up the bulk of IE and, at the end of the day, they are a pay check for the agency. Remember that they are still also representing the good schools and pick based on things like fair attendance (an indicator of where the schools are actively recruiting) and ease of use of the databases.

And yes, as schools shift to Schrole, a few schools like SAS (I am assuming yoplay mean Singapore American since Shanghai American is, in fact, attending fairs) might drop off the fair list and require individual applications. But really, if you are targeting specific schools, especially top schools like this one, you are likely already applying via the school website. You pay Search for the access to their job postings, their easy-to-use database and school profiles, to consolidate your own professional profile, and to attend a fair.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:18 am
by Lastname_Z
Wouldn't schools be more likely to accept a direct application through their website or to their email? I don't see how someone applying through a third . such as Search would have a better chance of getting a position in this situation.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:52 am
by shadowjack
Lastname - search takes a lot of the grunt work out of sifting through candidates...

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:02 am
by b12r
Positives for schools- SEARCH sifts through the people who are just really feeling their way through IT. Meaning, the people not very serious about IT get weeded out by SEARCH's process. They do recruit from their own websites too.

Positives for teachers- One stop shop for looking for vacancies. Also the ability to attend fairs, if invited.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:28 pm
by Lastname_Z
That's not really a positive for teachers. You have to pay more money on top of the normal fees to attend those fairs. Networking can be done in many other free (or at least much cheaper) ways.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:58 am
by Thames Pirate
The database is easy to use and convenient. Yes, the fairs and the agencies themselves are pricey, but the quality is higher than many of the cheap and free sites. You get what you pay for. It's worth it to many, not worth it to many more. If you are aiming for higher tier schools, you are either applying directly, or more likely, with a major agency.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:55 am
by shadowjack
I also look at it as what is my time worth. Search saves me time. So it costs money. It isn't a lot of money and the time it saves me is considerable. Therefore, I go with Search.

Response

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:20 pm
by PsyGuy
It greatly depends what you are looking for. In general a premium agency can save a lot of convenience and resources if you have a very broad job search or job reach. The more specific and restricted you are the less value the premium agencies offer.

Schrole isnt a recruiting agency, they are an application management tool/resource for ISs, that offers shorter route to ISs application portal.

At the top you have the premium agencies: 1) International School Services (ISS) and 2) Search Associates (Search or SA) Search Associates recruiters dont do very very much to actually find you a job. Mainly what your paying for is access to the school database, and the fairs (of which your first one is free).
ISS is smaller and repps the better ISs (even if all they are providing a school is Recruiting Services) ISS has the "better" schools, as they have a higher bar/standard on what schools they will represent.
Search has a much larger datatbase, as they accept pretty much all of the tier 1 and tier 2 schools (and many of the tier 3 schools), so they have more opportunities available (although you have to tolerate all the job vacancies coming out of schools in the ME, which never seem to end). ISS also has higher standards for what teachers they will accept, generally ISS doesnt accept teachers who arent currently employed. ISS works a lot more personally to help you find a job, assuming your worthy. They are a boutique experience, they either are very attentive or they ignore you. Search recruiters may or may not do anything for you. Cost is also an issue. Search is $200 for three years of database access, and one free fair (additional fairs are $50 each). ISS is $185 for two years (2 seasons, it use to be one year). I'm a member of ISS, The really elite schools list with both companies, and the big fairs for each agency run back to back of one another (the "Super" fairs for each are the Cambridge/Boston fair, and the Bangkok fair).
Both give you access to a vacancy database.

CIS is another organization that does teacher recruiting though they arent as international, they primarily cater to EU schools (and the brittish school curriculum). Their big fair is in London (twhich is a Super fair with Search).

UNI is an international job fair held by the University of Northern Iowa. For close to the cost of a premium agency you get one fair and access to the fair attendees future vacancies. Its mostly lower tier ISs in Asia and South America. Trinity College in the UK has a IT fair as does Queens University in Canada
AASSA is another fair that focuses on lower tier CSA.

In the smaller recruiting agencies (and cheaper) you have Joy Jobs and TIE-Online (The International Educator), they have small fees about $40 each. They get the smaller schools, and some last minute positions, but they have pretty small databases. I've subscribed to both of them and prefer TIE, and have heard mixed reviews about them. It is essentially a jobs database and thats it.

Below that you have all the "free" web sites, though these mostly are for ESL positions, sites like: Daves ESL cafe, Gaijinpot, Ajarn, etc. are free and occasionally have non ESL positions advertised.
TES is a free educator site that maintains an extensive job database, though the majority of vacancies are for BSs (British DSs/ISs)

Lastly you have all the service agencies such as Footprints, Compass, etc. They are either operating as an introduction service, meaning they collect resumes and profiles and when they get an IS client they "introduce" you or forward your application for what they perceive is a good match. The other type are the agencies that have large IS clients and they are just trying to fill classrooms as cheaply as possible with anyone who has a degree and a pulse.

You can always do a very successful job search without a recruiter on your own. Many members of this forum, have and continue to be successful this way. It depends how much time you have, and what your focus is. Agencies like Search and ISS certainly provide bennifits (your references are all in one place), and they make the search easier, as well as provide contract information such as salaries, and other compensation information. You also get to go to the fairs where the hiring really happens (especially if your new). That being said, if you have a specific region that your interested in such as france, its very easy to just google that and get a list of schools, and just keep checking their HR site for vacancies. If your interested in only the DOS schools (Department of State supported schools) you can go to their website and just click on the schools websites and bookmark their HR pages. Of course this also requires more time on your end, but for people who have specific focused (narrow) interests it could be worthwhile. For instance Search only lists 3 schools in france in their database, and their are 11 International Schools in france, so even if you were a Search member youd have to do your own updateing with the other 8 schools on your own anyway. $200 for 3 schools isnt a whole lot, especially for schools in Eastern Europe where there is only 1 or 2 search Schools in their database. For some people its more important where they are, then how much money they are making.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:03 pm
by Thames Pirate
PsyGuy is still stuck on ISS repping better schools. Sorry, but while that may have been the case once upon a time, most of the better schools do a lot of their agency hiring through Search these days if they are still using an agency. PsyGuy and I have gone around and around on this one before. I point out evidence such as which fairs schools are attending. He says fair attendance doesn't matter and that they hire through the website. I say that if that were true, these top schools wouldn't bother attending a Search fair in BKK (and London!) but skipping the ISS fair in BKK the same week or jump ship to Search after decades of only recruiting through ISS. [I would add that even IS Bangkok, which is IN BANGKOK, did not attend the ISS fair but did attend the Search fair]. I have had a recruiter tell me that his (top tier) school was switching to Search and that was their last ISS fair (and that has happened). PsyGuy has countered with "only data matters." I point out the growing list of top schools no longer attending ISS fairs but attending one or more Search fairs (ISBangkok, WAB, Singapore American, UNIS, Zurich IS, Frankfurt IS, AS London). He goes back to the whole "they are hiring without the fairs through ISS."

So believe what you will on this point. I just saved us the trouble of typing out the entire argument again.

Sure, Search also reps lots of lower tier schools and therefore has a broader range (one of the complaints of the fair diaries, you will note). That said, ISS also reps lower tier schools. They are smaller, so they rep fewer of the lower tiers. They simply have a narrower range. The same probably holds true for teachers--a narrower range. I will agree that Search's associates are relatively useless; the "personalised" assistance they offer is a schtick, but reality doesn't quite match the promise.

That said, I mostly agree with the rest of what he has to say. Some schools prefer the one-stop-shopping of the big agencies and would rather just have the relative streamlining (vs. individual applications) and deal with the placement fee (in the big picture of compensation and relocation costs, it is relatively minor). You absolutely can apply to these schools individually, but having the agency rep you really does allow you to both pop up on their radar and more easily access certain schools via fairs. It doesn't preclude you from applying independently to schools both within the agency and outside of it. In the grand scheme of job hunting, $200 for three years is really not that bad. It streamlines the process so much more than sifting through all those cheap and free websites.

Reply

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:30 pm
by PsyGuy
@Thames Pirate

Stuck on it because its true. I disagree with your one recruiter point sample. ISS doesnt rep nearly the concentration of lower tier ISs and the bottom of ISSs barrel is a lot less deeper than SAs.

Agency representation is more than fairs, your more successful and more likely to be successful with better outcomes with ISS than you are with SA.

ISB doesnt need to attend the ISS fair, but they need to attend a fair with SA or there is a fee, and since its local its just cheaper to attend and put in an appearance than cut the coin for not attending.

Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:22 pm
by Thames Pirate
Predicted that pretty accurately, didn't I?

PsyGuy wrote:
> Agency representation is more than fairs, your more successful and more likely to
> be successful with better outcomes with ISS than you are with SA.


No data, no examples, nothing but the same tired argument.