Guangzhou
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mistyknight
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:59 am
Guangzhou
Would anyone like to share thoughts/experiences of living and working in Guangzhou? I have researched A LOT but would like to hear the good, the bad, and especially the ugly. This would be my first IT post. I am a single (but not at all looking for information about dating) Black woman.
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coin_operated
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:23 pm
Re: Guangzhou
Good: nice metro system, big expat scene, lots of amenities, lots of history. Guangzhou is a major travel hub within China, so if you want to do lots of travelling within China, you could start in a worse place. You can take fast trains to Hong Kong - I'm not sure how long the train/getting through immigration (HK is still technically a separate country in many respects) takes these days, but I'd say HK is doable as a weekend trip from GZ, but a bit of a pain as a day trip. If you like Chinese food (especially dim sum) there is great food. Regarding China in general, apart from lots of superstition wasn't reached by the maoist purges, it's a pretty secular place. It's also a place where parents take education very seriously.
Bad/ugly: Guangzhou is an industrial city, so expect pollution. The internet is lousy - you'll need a VPN to access things like Google, and it tends to be on the slow side if you're not visiting Chinese websites. Many Chinese people have social norms that are jarringly different from Western social norms; this is something that you'll see on a daily basis and will grate. Western products will probably be available in GZ but will be very expensive (many people in this part of China, both expats and locals alike, shop for Western products in HK for this reason). The government is infamously opaque; things could change dramatically in a day's notice without anyone you know being any the wiser. Cultural/intellectual activities can be limited. The belief that different races are inherently, biologically different from each other is strong here. The idea that one ought to be respectful of differences in race or appearance is not.
Bad/ugly: Guangzhou is an industrial city, so expect pollution. The internet is lousy - you'll need a VPN to access things like Google, and it tends to be on the slow side if you're not visiting Chinese websites. Many Chinese people have social norms that are jarringly different from Western social norms; this is something that you'll see on a daily basis and will grate. Western products will probably be available in GZ but will be very expensive (many people in this part of China, both expats and locals alike, shop for Western products in HK for this reason). The government is infamously opaque; things could change dramatically in a day's notice without anyone you know being any the wiser. Cultural/intellectual activities can be limited. The belief that different races are inherently, biologically different from each other is strong here. The idea that one ought to be respectful of differences in race or appearance is not.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Guangzhou
Further Good
GZ also has great connections to the rest of Southeast Asia and other parts of the world. Flights are generally a bit expensive than they are from Hong Kong, but they're affordable.
The train to Hong Kong direct from Guangzhoug East Railway Station to Hung Hom in Hong Kong takes slightly over 2 hours. It's about 150 RMB one way. You can also get to Shenzhen in 1 hour 15 minutes and then cross the border at Lo Wu to get on the HK Metro, which is an alternative if the tickets direct to Hong Kong sell out. For most people, going to Hong Kong is a nice break and change of pace. It's still a busy, Asian city, but it's much more Westernized. It's a good break from Mainland China. I know some colleagues who go there once a month, but I tend to go there once every 2 to 3 months.
Like other places in China, the ability to easily order food and goods online and get them delivered to your house is great. It's also easy to afford maid/nanny/cook (ayi) to get help around the house. The quality of the help varies, but for a lot of people this makes life a lot easier. Also your ayi often serve as fixers for problems that can arise like paying utilities or getting deliveries to your house.
Lots of musical performances, dance performances, and theatre comes to the Guangzhou opera house. I've not attended any, but my colleagues have. Apparently, the quality varies but some have been outstanding.
Neutral/Mixed
Although it's a very big city, it's far less busy than Beijing or Shanghai and the pollution situation is better (it's still not good). The traffic situation tends to be a lot better than those cities and Shenzhen.
I'd say there are two strong international schools with very good packages and then it drops off from there. Some of the schools that are in Guangzhou are actually quite a ways from the center of the city. Most teachers end up with a commute, though schools tend to organize teacher buses.
The climate here is very warm and during some times of the year it's wet. There isn't much of a winter to speak of at all. Maybe 3 weeks to 6 weeks of chilly weather where you'd need a light jacket. If you hate sweating and being hot, it could be a downer here. If you hate winter, this could be your place.
Further Bad
Getting some everyday things like banking or finding an apartment will probably require significant guidance from a Chinese person.
Communication issues will impact just about everyone. There is a certain level of English spoken by local Chinese people, but even in Western restaurants where the wait staff supposedly understand English there will continue to be problems.
It's hard to make local friends. People can be very friendly, but lifestyles and expectations are quite different. There will be curiosity and interest from people, but building real friendships can be tough. The rewards if you do can be significant if you manage to make friends.
Good luck.
GZ also has great connections to the rest of Southeast Asia and other parts of the world. Flights are generally a bit expensive than they are from Hong Kong, but they're affordable.
The train to Hong Kong direct from Guangzhoug East Railway Station to Hung Hom in Hong Kong takes slightly over 2 hours. It's about 150 RMB one way. You can also get to Shenzhen in 1 hour 15 minutes and then cross the border at Lo Wu to get on the HK Metro, which is an alternative if the tickets direct to Hong Kong sell out. For most people, going to Hong Kong is a nice break and change of pace. It's still a busy, Asian city, but it's much more Westernized. It's a good break from Mainland China. I know some colleagues who go there once a month, but I tend to go there once every 2 to 3 months.
Like other places in China, the ability to easily order food and goods online and get them delivered to your house is great. It's also easy to afford maid/nanny/cook (ayi) to get help around the house. The quality of the help varies, but for a lot of people this makes life a lot easier. Also your ayi often serve as fixers for problems that can arise like paying utilities or getting deliveries to your house.
Lots of musical performances, dance performances, and theatre comes to the Guangzhou opera house. I've not attended any, but my colleagues have. Apparently, the quality varies but some have been outstanding.
Neutral/Mixed
Although it's a very big city, it's far less busy than Beijing or Shanghai and the pollution situation is better (it's still not good). The traffic situation tends to be a lot better than those cities and Shenzhen.
I'd say there are two strong international schools with very good packages and then it drops off from there. Some of the schools that are in Guangzhou are actually quite a ways from the center of the city. Most teachers end up with a commute, though schools tend to organize teacher buses.
The climate here is very warm and during some times of the year it's wet. There isn't much of a winter to speak of at all. Maybe 3 weeks to 6 weeks of chilly weather where you'd need a light jacket. If you hate sweating and being hot, it could be a downer here. If you hate winter, this could be your place.
Further Bad
Getting some everyday things like banking or finding an apartment will probably require significant guidance from a Chinese person.
Communication issues will impact just about everyone. There is a certain level of English spoken by local Chinese people, but even in Western restaurants where the wait staff supposedly understand English there will continue to be problems.
It's hard to make local friends. People can be very friendly, but lifestyles and expectations are quite different. There will be curiosity and interest from people, but building real friendships can be tough. The rewards if you do can be significant if you manage to make friends.
Good luck.
Response
Im glad you arent interested in the social scene, you wouldnt do well. The biggest problem you will have is that discrimination and prejudice is very ingrained and alive. You will quickly feel like you are a lessor human being, and thats because in their culture you are. It doesnt help that there is an African culture that is mainly seen as thieves and scammers in the city. You will have a far more difficult time building friendships with locals. Having white foreign friends is a sign of status to Chinese people.
Most of the prior contributors are accurate, my further additions are:
Shamian island is a little US alcove for the consulate, which handles almost all the foreign adoption in China. Its a little America, though pricey. The White Swan hotel is a nice get away from Asian life, and Lulus is a a nice date nite spot on the Pearl river that delivers the best of a US steak house experience. Lot of conbini stores selling imports. You can get whatever you want but you will pay the coin for it.
The main expat area is centered around the Garden hotel, a number of expat pubs, and import stores/shops. Usually the restaurant is on the ground floor and the shop above it. You can get everything from Italian/Mexican to Brazilian Barbecue. The two main conbini stores are Joys (local) and Olivers (import). In apartments/flats one of these stores is attached, and you will pay for it. You can usually mark accurately the affluence level by which store is in the complex.
The metro system is okay, its not JP or SG, but its manageable. Trains are more convenient and better run then buses, especially if you get soft seat or soft sleeper (never go hard seat). Taxi's are very convenient and inexpensive, you can negotiate the fare to your destination in advance or use the meter. Its also pretty walk able within a neighborhood.
Getting to HK is about 90 minutes by fast train, and costs about 150RMb, people commute this way everyday, you can too if you want. You can be out of your IS and in the CBD of HK before happy hour. You can also minimize the costs by getting a commuter pass, and going a slower train or bus on the weekend is very affordable if you just have to be in HK for each weekend. Understand that the bottom tier of IE salaries is
RMB 20K/month. Even if you paid walkup fare on the ultra fast train each weekend it would cost about
RMB 1000, considering almost all your salary is discretionary its a trivial cost for a single on a weekend.
You could if you really wanted too, live in HK and commute to GZ, it would be a nearly empty train each way, 90 minutes to work on lessons and mark papers, and yeah youd be eating up a lot of salary, but for the experience you could live the HK city life and work the GZ slums, especially if your making RMB40K in salary.
Internet is OK, the main issue for most is what kind of infrastructure you have in your building. Fast residential is about 20mbps if your apartment building is run with fiber, and thats actual speeds, you can stream video well at that speed. The problem is most older buildings only have copper wire and about 3mbps over ADSL is about all you can get. This isnt a problem in HK as fiber is everywhere. There are other options, most locals access the internet through there mobile, and so many local sites are really optimized for mobile. You will find plenty of internet cafes with high speed commercial fiber and Uni students and teens playing games.
Yes you need a VPN to access a lot of western sites, and it can be a problem when your VPN goes offline.
Mobile speed is very strong but you will generally experience speeds closer to 3G rather than 4G, even though the network is 4G the shear user congestion means you get closer to 3G. Most Chinese communicate by Wechat or Line rather than SMS or voice, and outside of McDonalds or Starbucks and hotels there is very little free WiFi.
Its very convenient to order goods and services online, even by mobile and have them delivered. In GZ Alibaba has same day delivery and often in a few hours, since many of the residential areas are clustered together, and expats tend to choose specific neighborhoods. You can order something online and have it in a few hours. Consumer goods are really cheap, you will literally think of most common items are available for a pittance.
Yes there is pollution, but its no worse then NYC or LAX, its much, much, much better than Beijing, but if your sensitive you will be taking a lot of anti-histamine. The heat is often more an issue than the air quality.
I doubt you will have an ayi (domestic servant) this is usually a mothers helper or au pair. Its much easier and for a single cheaper to get a serviced apartment/flat includes cleaning. If you didnt it would still be much cheaper to hire a weekly maid to clean and do the laundry. Paying bills is easy in a serviced apartment you leave the envelope at the front/gate desk, otherwise just ask the reception desk at your IS. Give them the bill and the coin in the morning and they will have the receipt for you the next morning.
Finding an apartment isnt that hard as long as you have a salary and are open to the expat housing scene. There are plenty of property agents who speak English well to show you these places, and know how has the best incentives. The problem happens when you want to be on the more economical side, then you will likely require more help.
Banking isnt a problem, ATMs are everywhere and thats how you do banking. Your IS will open the account for you, deposit your salary into it, and you withdraw is by ATM. Even opening an account at another bank (for a credit card for example) is fairly easy assuming you go at the time the foreign counter is open.
Most restaurants will have an English menu, you just point at the picture. The high end restaurants will have English speaking serving staff. Many of them are local teachers or Uni students who have the added benefit of practicing their English for free (and getting tips, since Chinese dont tip).
Entertainment varies, there are movie theaters that show US and foreign films, though you will find Chinese and JP films as well. The release date is about 2 months after the US release. A lot of the pubs and night spots have a very active music scene but most of it will be local bands. There is theater and symphony, they usually are a side stop before HK to build media influence. For some of the theater you may be one of the lucky few who understand the performance as it will likely be in English.
Most of the prior contributors are accurate, my further additions are:
Shamian island is a little US alcove for the consulate, which handles almost all the foreign adoption in China. Its a little America, though pricey. The White Swan hotel is a nice get away from Asian life, and Lulus is a a nice date nite spot on the Pearl river that delivers the best of a US steak house experience. Lot of conbini stores selling imports. You can get whatever you want but you will pay the coin for it.
The main expat area is centered around the Garden hotel, a number of expat pubs, and import stores/shops. Usually the restaurant is on the ground floor and the shop above it. You can get everything from Italian/Mexican to Brazilian Barbecue. The two main conbini stores are Joys (local) and Olivers (import). In apartments/flats one of these stores is attached, and you will pay for it. You can usually mark accurately the affluence level by which store is in the complex.
The metro system is okay, its not JP or SG, but its manageable. Trains are more convenient and better run then buses, especially if you get soft seat or soft sleeper (never go hard seat). Taxi's are very convenient and inexpensive, you can negotiate the fare to your destination in advance or use the meter. Its also pretty walk able within a neighborhood.
Getting to HK is about 90 minutes by fast train, and costs about 150RMb, people commute this way everyday, you can too if you want. You can be out of your IS and in the CBD of HK before happy hour. You can also minimize the costs by getting a commuter pass, and going a slower train or bus on the weekend is very affordable if you just have to be in HK for each weekend. Understand that the bottom tier of IE salaries is
RMB 20K/month. Even if you paid walkup fare on the ultra fast train each weekend it would cost about
RMB 1000, considering almost all your salary is discretionary its a trivial cost for a single on a weekend.
You could if you really wanted too, live in HK and commute to GZ, it would be a nearly empty train each way, 90 minutes to work on lessons and mark papers, and yeah youd be eating up a lot of salary, but for the experience you could live the HK city life and work the GZ slums, especially if your making RMB40K in salary.
Internet is OK, the main issue for most is what kind of infrastructure you have in your building. Fast residential is about 20mbps if your apartment building is run with fiber, and thats actual speeds, you can stream video well at that speed. The problem is most older buildings only have copper wire and about 3mbps over ADSL is about all you can get. This isnt a problem in HK as fiber is everywhere. There are other options, most locals access the internet through there mobile, and so many local sites are really optimized for mobile. You will find plenty of internet cafes with high speed commercial fiber and Uni students and teens playing games.
Yes you need a VPN to access a lot of western sites, and it can be a problem when your VPN goes offline.
Mobile speed is very strong but you will generally experience speeds closer to 3G rather than 4G, even though the network is 4G the shear user congestion means you get closer to 3G. Most Chinese communicate by Wechat or Line rather than SMS or voice, and outside of McDonalds or Starbucks and hotels there is very little free WiFi.
Its very convenient to order goods and services online, even by mobile and have them delivered. In GZ Alibaba has same day delivery and often in a few hours, since many of the residential areas are clustered together, and expats tend to choose specific neighborhoods. You can order something online and have it in a few hours. Consumer goods are really cheap, you will literally think of most common items are available for a pittance.
Yes there is pollution, but its no worse then NYC or LAX, its much, much, much better than Beijing, but if your sensitive you will be taking a lot of anti-histamine. The heat is often more an issue than the air quality.
I doubt you will have an ayi (domestic servant) this is usually a mothers helper or au pair. Its much easier and for a single cheaper to get a serviced apartment/flat includes cleaning. If you didnt it would still be much cheaper to hire a weekly maid to clean and do the laundry. Paying bills is easy in a serviced apartment you leave the envelope at the front/gate desk, otherwise just ask the reception desk at your IS. Give them the bill and the coin in the morning and they will have the receipt for you the next morning.
Finding an apartment isnt that hard as long as you have a salary and are open to the expat housing scene. There are plenty of property agents who speak English well to show you these places, and know how has the best incentives. The problem happens when you want to be on the more economical side, then you will likely require more help.
Banking isnt a problem, ATMs are everywhere and thats how you do banking. Your IS will open the account for you, deposit your salary into it, and you withdraw is by ATM. Even opening an account at another bank (for a credit card for example) is fairly easy assuming you go at the time the foreign counter is open.
Most restaurants will have an English menu, you just point at the picture. The high end restaurants will have English speaking serving staff. Many of them are local teachers or Uni students who have the added benefit of practicing their English for free (and getting tips, since Chinese dont tip).
Entertainment varies, there are movie theaters that show US and foreign films, though you will find Chinese and JP films as well. The release date is about 2 months after the US release. A lot of the pubs and night spots have a very active music scene but most of it will be local bands. There is theater and symphony, they usually are a side stop before HK to build media influence. For some of the theater you may be one of the lucky few who understand the performance as it will likely be in English.