Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Art Teacher
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:54 pm

Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by Art Teacher »

Hi All

Do you think so-called tier 1 and 2 British schools pay as well as tier 1 and 2 International Schools? Do the packages tend to be better or worse?
sid
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by sid »

It's a piece of string question, since we're talking about thousands of individual schools, but...
Often British schools pay more than international ones. They also often use British-style teaching loads, so you will be teaching more lessons per week and having very little preparation time. You may even have to deal with Ofsted. You have to decide for yourself what's more important to you.
dover2013
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by dover2013 »

As sid said, piece of string. In some cities the biggest payer is an American school, in others it's a British school and in others still it's an "International" one. This is changing. In recent years, international schools have been opening up left, right and centre and many of them have a "British" curriculum and "British" in their name because of the perceived standards, currency and credibility - at least to the new rich in the developing world. All of these schools are for-profit. So on average, yes British schools pay less. But in terms of the old guard, its a piece of string.
auntiesocial
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by auntiesocial »

To my knowledge, the highest paying British school in a city will generally pay less than the highest paying 'international' school or American school in the same city.

This is the case in basically every major East Asian city.
joe30
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by joe30 »

I concur. This is likely because teachers are paid absolute crap in the UK, especially with the recent devaluation of the pound.
shadylane
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Location: SE Asia

Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by shadylane »

auntiesocial wrote:
> This is the case in basically every major East Asian city.
>

I can think of one or two exceptions.

The problem with the Brits is that they are very glass half empty, compared to the North Americans who are very glass half full. That means that if you rely on bar stool conversations your information can be very skewed.


joe30 wrote:
> I concur. This is likely because teachers are paid absolute crap in the UK,
> especially with the recent devaluation of the pound.

I rest my case.
Helen Back
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by Helen Back »

joe30 wrote:
> I concur. This is likely because teachers are paid absolute crap in the UK,
> especially with the recent devaluation of the pound.

Teachers in the UK are paid exactly the same as they were before the devaluation of the pound. Unless they spend a significant portion of their lives living elsewhere it has made no difference at all so far.

As for being paid crap, well I've never worked in the UK, but compared to much of the US, they seem to be doing pretty well. Compared to Canada.....not so much.
joe30
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by joe30 »

Paid the same nominal figure yes, but given salaries are mostly paid in USD and/or the local currency in IE, Brit schools pay less if they're using the UK scale - which is a substantial number of them.

An NQT in the UK starts off at £22,444, which is $28,400. Out of that they have to pay taxes and their accomodation. If it aint peanuts, well it's close to it. No idea why any teachers remain in the UK personally.
fine dude
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by fine dude »

A handful of Tier 1 British schools in South-East Asia pay well. The same applies to American schools. Your best bet would be a not-for-profit international/american school, which usually will be the go-to school in that city. They have the best pay, benefits, and a diverse student body.
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

The elite tier IS in a given location is often a toss up between a BS and an AS, occasionally an IS (IBO IS) is the elite tier IS. Comp is mostly the difference with small variations in OSH package. ASs tend to be more accommodating to families and BSs more towards singles and couples.

@joe30

NQTs intern class ITs have more options in BSs than US ITs, more lower tier ISs are prepared to accept an NQT without the two years pre-requisite experience. That said upper tier ISs dont hire NQTs and so arent at the bottom of the main pay scale.

Why would an IT or DT want to teach in England despite the salary:

1) Its easy, follow the course checklist and you are done. Sure you have more preps, but you are little more than a script money.

2) Advancement is a lot easier and faster, you can be in leadership sooner in a UK DS than you will in an IS.

3) Experience with the UKNC.

4) Salary is on par with comparable ITs. You dont see a bunch of inexperienced ITs getting top salaries anywhere. £23K isnt a lot but its more in some places (LCSA) and parts of Asia.

5) It builds marketable prestige.
joe30
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Re: Response

Post by joe30 »

1) If you go on the TES, just about everyone agrees teaching overseas is a lot easier than teaching in the UK. No Ofsted and the standards are much lower.

2) No idea about this one really.

3) Can get that abroad.

4) The thing is, it's £22,244 before tax and accomodation. After tax, that comes to £18,000 a year. Accomodation in the UK will run you at least 5 grand a year, so you actually have £13,000 left over ($16,500).

It's no exagerration to say you would have more disposable income teaching entry level ESL in China or Korea, let alone in a real international school.

5) Couldn't give a damn about so-called prestige personally. I'd happily work in a school with low standards and no academic integrity so long as the money was good, the local women were easy, and I'm not getting worked to death.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@joe30

You arent comparing DE to IE, youre comparing regulated/maintained to independent/private. You can stay in London and teach at ASL and not deal with Ofsted at all, you can go overseas such as too HK and be in a BS and have to deal with Ofsted just as you would in the UK.

You can get something like it abroad, BSs range greatly in quality, in some BS ISs they are little more than British in name only and maybe a binder of NC standards in the AP/VP/DPs office.

That £22K is the minimum for outside London, look at step one on many ISs salary scale and its not much better, and its right around the global average for IE. True you can get tax savings and an OSH package, but again your comparing OSH to LH (regulated/maintained to independent/private). If you were on a LH package in SK you wouldnt be getting accommodation/housing or an OSH package either, and you obtain an appointment at ASL for example and have all those OSh benefits plus salary and still be living in London.

Youre gripe isnt with the UK, or England, or LON its with the differences between OSH recruited ITs in IE and LH recruited DTs in DE. Which would be true everywhere.

Sure you could have more disposable income and likely to but those are differences in cost of living. You could be just as broke living on the margins in Seoul or Tokyo as you could living in LON. When you say China does this include HK, its not cheap living in HK compared to LON.

You dont, but ISs do, thats why its so much easier once youve been at a tier 1 IS to move around to other tier 1 ISs.
You are confusing standards with tasking, you can be well practiced and do very little each year repeating the same high quality lesson.
Upper tier ISs have more to lose and more incentive to compromise their integrity than mid tier ISs.
Which end of the tier scale do you think pays the most coin?
I know a lot of UK DTs that havent changed their lesson or their marking in decades and can sight mark their papers. looking like your working isnt the same as actually working.

Cant disagree with you on the ladies of London, their worst then Parisians and a toss up for Americans and Chelsea girls are worse than Manhattanites.
joe30
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by joe30 »

I feel it's fine to compare a locally hired UK DS package with an OSH package at an international school, since those two are the options avaliable for a UK teacher. Yes, if the teacher happened to be South Korean and apply to work in a South Korean school they wouldn't get a OSH package, but that scenario just isn't relevant for any UK teachers.

There's a few independent schools in the UK, but like all of Western Europe they suffer from the problems of high European taxes, don't provide accom, and in the case of London, have a cost of living that is truly extortionate, one of the highest in the whole world.

£22k is outside London sure, but that 'London allowance' doesn't actually cover the increased costs of living in London, mainly because there's a 40% marginal tax rate on everything above £21,000 (you pay 20% income tax, 11% national insurance, and 9% for your student loan which 95%+ of teachers will have).

My 'more disposable income' comment doesn't include HK. I don't have enough knowledge of the ESL teaching scene there. Anywhere in China though, you could do better than a UK domestic teacher. South Korea pays 2.1-2.3 million won for ESL, which is about the same post-tax income of the UK DT - except of course, in Korea you get a free apartment and one month severance pay for every year worked - so South Korea works out a lot better in practice.

Even jumping ship to Thailand (a country known for generally low teacher salaries) after your PGCE, you'll at least match what a UK NQT is earning post-tax (68,000 baht a month would equal a UK NQT post-tax salary), and be in a much nicer country too.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@joe30

You can get an OSH package at an IS in the UK.
Thats not entirely true, if your an expat married to a local and in country your getting an LH package unless you use one of the few pathways into maintaining or getting an OSH package.

There are more than a few, look at Eaton if you want top board salary examples in the UK

£22K is also the minimum, I have never met a UK IT in IE that left at the minimum on the main scale. the vast majority were on the UPS or the top (£30K) of the MPS. You could do better in PEK and SK if your comparing only the minimum of the MPS to ESOL, but a UK DT will exceed the earnings in PEK and SK with time compared to ESOL.
I agree though theres real monetized value in an OSH package.

Yes, youll match what an NQT makes in BKK, but the NQT wont be an NQT for long, they will quickly surpass the ESOL earning potential.
joe30
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Re: Pay: British Schools vs International Schools

Post by joe30 »

Again though - the problem is that 40% marginal tax rate, which means the money you take home is never really that great compared to abroad.

For example, take a teacher with 6 years experience, and so at the top of the main pay scale. That's currently £33,160. After tax however that's £24,300. Take out 5 grand for accomodation (and seriously, this is like the bare minimum, you'll be in a crap area of town for this sort of money), and we've got £19,300. Converted to dollars, that's $24,500.

I'd say the 6th point on the scale at the vast majority of non-European IS's is well above $24,500.

To make a comparison, an ESL teacher in South Korea with 6 years experience in his hagwon will be on 2.3 million won a month+apartment. That's $23,500 a year, but they'll also get one month severance pay every year worked, so it's really $25,400.

Yeah the UK IT is paying into a pension scheme, so his total comp is at this point slightly better than the ESL teacher - but it's taken him 7 years to get there (one year PGCE+6 years at work), and there's still not a significant difference.

Then there's other factors to consider, such that in the UK they actually have standards at work with poor performance not being tolerated. In ESL, providing you turn up on time and don't swear at the boss, you'll always have a job. When you clock out of your ESL job, your time is your own, because there's little marking/grading and no one cares about your lesson plans or even if you have any. Not so in UK schools.

The best route IMO is to get the PGCE then immediately go abroad. There's a bit of confirmation bias there since that's the plan I'm doing myself but honestly £22k before taxes and accomodation for having to put up with living in the UK is nowhere near enough.
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