New Teacher - Advice Needed Please

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jdurey
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:00 am

New Teacher - Advice Needed Please

Post by jdurey »

My background: I've been teaching ESL for 13 years. I recently got my US certification in K-12 ESOL and 7-12 Social Studies. I did my student teaching at Chadwick International in Songdo in MS Social Studies, and have worked in the Elementary school at Chadwick since January as an intern.

I have been offered a full-time substitute position at Seoul Foreign School. My goal is to get in to an international school as my wife is Korean and we plan to reside in Korea indefinitely with our two children. However, I have also been offered a position as an EAL Specialist at International School of Dongguan. It looks like a good school, is IB, and will give me some experience. My choice then is: Take the sub position at SFS, try to make a good impression and hope that something opens up in my subject areas next year; or Go to Dongguan, get some experience that would make me more marketable to intl schools in Korea, but I would have to leave my family behind in Korea, visiting about once a month.

My hope with SFS is that after subbing there for a year or so I would be able to possibly get hired on full-time if I make a good impression. I'm not crazy about the idea of leaving my family in Korea for the next 2 years while I work at IS Dongguan in China.

Which way would, objectively speaking, be best for my career as a relatively new teacher? Am I right in assuming that working as a sub would be a gamble, and would not count as real experience should I apply to international schools next year? What would you do in my situation?
wrldtrvlr123
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: New Teacher - Advice Needed Please

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

Career wise the int'l IB school in China is your best choice (by far). Family wise, the sub choice is the obvious best bet.

The sub job could end up being a good risk. The fact that it is a full time spot is somewhat encouraging. If you take it and impress it could lead to a permanent position which would be close to your dream gig, given your family situation.

There are two major risks with that plan. First you could be less than impressive for reasons totally not your fault. Second, there can be a phenomenon where once a school/admin sees you in a certain role (sub, TA etc) they have a tough time seeing you as something more than that (teacher). Admittedly this is less common in many int'l schools where people often shift roles and promote from within.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
eion_padraig
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: New Teacher - Advice Needed Please

Post by eion_padraig »

Does the full-time sub job come with an overseas hiring package? The problem is that if you are hired on a local hire contract it may be difficult (or impossible) to get hired on as an overseas hire. If the full-time sub job is an overseas hire, then you should be able to carry that over if you get hired on in another position.

I've known people who have gotten married to locals of a certain country, who have had to leave that country for a time in order to be able to go back on an overseas hire position. If you're going to be somewhere for a long time and they don't revert you to a local hire package after a set time (this seems to happen in South America quite a bit), then it can be worth it.

Dongguan (the city) isn't so great. It's mostly know for factories and prostitutes. And the shoe factories have been moving to Southeast Asia. On the plus side, Dongguan is close to some better cities (Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Zhuhai, Macau) and it's close to several good airports with easy access to the rest of Asia.

Good luck.
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

In general I disagree with @WT123

Lets start by changing some of the language a little, you arent a substitute your a general education IT (think of it as learning support, with very large groups of mixed ability students in an external resource classroom). Once you frame the titles within that context the SK appointment is far superior. The SK appointment is already full time, you would just move from a general education assignment to a fixed departmental assignment. Experience in a upper tier IS is more marketable than IB experience, IB ISs comprise most of the second tier and bridge IT careers from third to first tier.

My strongest point of contention with @WT123 is that the SK appointment is already very close to if not your dream appointment. What would it matter even if it was classified and identified as "substitute" experience? There isnt much if any advancement mobility available and remain in that location. If you take the SK position you would likely be retiring out of it, in which case marketability has no utility for you, and building your resume has no relevance or significance. You can retire your resume once you are where you want to be.
The only real goal remaining is getting a masters and a leadership (preferably counselor or librarian) and planing your internal movement out of the classroom and into an office.

I do concur with @WT123 that ITs can get "type cast" within a certain role that can be difficult to move out of. I do agree that your impression could fail or be unproductive but thats true anywhere and with both appointments.
jdurey
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:00 am

Re: New Teacher - Advice Needed Please

Post by jdurey »

Thanks so much for your responses and for offering your perspective on this difficult decision. Sorry PsyGuy, but what is General Education "IT"? Just to clarify, there would be no benefits to the SFS sub role outside of a small stipend, being able to work in the classroom, and making connections.

You've both given me more to think about which is good. I would be prepared to sub at SFS for the foreseeable future (2-3 years) if they allowed. In all honesty I'm not sure I could even complete a 2-year contract at ISD because being away from my kids would be hard enough to do for one year, let alone two.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@jdurey

IT = International Teacher

Whats full time about the appointment if its just a stipend? Is this an internship position? It sounds like the opportunity is basically volunteer work otherwise?

Its not uncommon for an IS to consider appointments as a LH (Local Hire) when the IT is the spouse of a local.

Why not bring your family to China with you?
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: New Teacher - Advice Needed Please

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

PsyGuy wrote:

> Lets start by changing some of the language a little, you arent a substitute your
> a general education IT (think of it as learning support, with very large groups
> of mixed ability students in an external resource classroom). Once you frame the
> titles within that context the SK appointment is far superior. The SK appointment
> is already full time, you would just move from a general education assignment to
> a fixed departmental assignment. Experience in a upper tier IS is more marketable
> than IB experience, IB ISs comprise most of the second tier and bridge IT careers
> from third to first tier.
>
> My strongest point of contention with @WT123 is that the SK appointment is already
> very close to if not your dream appointment. What would it matter even if it was
> classified and identified as "substitute" experience? There isnt much if any advancement
> mobility available and remain in that location. If you take the SK position you
> would likely be retiring out of it, in which case marketability has no utility for
> you, and building your resume has no relevance or significance. You can retire your
> resume once you are where you want to be.
> The only real goal remaining is getting a masters and a leadership (preferably counselor
> or librarian) and planing your internal movement out of the classroom and into an
> office.
>
> I do concur with @WT123 that ITs can get "type cast" within a certain role that can
> be difficult to move out of. I do agree that your impression could fail or be unproductive
> but thats true anywhere and with both appointments.
----------------------
Yes, but most of this is your conjecture about the nature of the substitute position and the likelihood that they would move the OP into an actual teaching position in the near future (which no one can predict).

My impression (possibly wrong) was that the substitute position was significantly inferior to an actual teaching position at the school (otherwise there wouldn't really be much of a decision to make). The devil is definitely in the details here.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@WT123

Like all of the major contributors, myself and yourself included, assumptions are often made about the inquirys the membership receives. My assumption was that this was already a fulll time IT appointment just one that did not have a fixed classroom or department.

I disagree that "no one can predict" the outcome probabilities, so much of the deciding variance is 'fit' and having leadership observe and determine an individual ITs value Im comfortable predicting that an IT that is adding value and performing expectations, is going to be moved into a fixed classroom appointment when the availability arises.

There are some details that would change this scenario dramatically.
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