DUI

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BubbaJones
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:52 am

DUI

Post by BubbaJones »

Looking for anyone who might be able to shed some light on this.

Seven years ago I was stopped by police on my scooter, breathalyzed, and, because I was over the limit, given a DUI.

I've been over the ethical implications of all this many times, so I'm not really looking for comments telling me how foolish and irresponsible I was. I know this already.

What I am interested in is how this might affect my chances at interview at an IS. I know there are a number of countries that I would be nixed from immediately, but would be interested to hear from the ISR community on their thoughts on this vis a vis getting a job. Other than this my career so far has been pretty solid (I think!) and getting a position in a good school wouldn't be a huge problem.

Any info much appreciated.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10053
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Where did the offense occur relevant to where you are now? Have you moved?

There are two schools of thought on the issue: One is the Sid school, the other is the PG school of thought.

Sid POV: You should absolutely disclose the offense, no later than the interview process. Its a minor offense (no one died, no injuries, no property damage) and its seven years old. Its dated, and an IT without any other occurrences in that time, is easily seen as a one time mistake. If you dont disclose it and it is discovered than its dishonesty and you could easily be dismissed.
If you are hired by an IS and the offense would have been disbarring for your entry or issuance of a visa, you could in addition find yourself charged criminally and fined/jailed before being deported.
The risks of non-disclosure far outweigh the very minor (if at all) effect in your overall marketability.

PG POV: Lie... A lot depends where this occurred and how far away you are now from it. If youve moved, or the offense was never entered into the state/national database (it was just kept local). Then you can with relative safety ignore it. It wont appear on a national or regional CRB. If youve moved the previous local CRB of the offense is no longer relevant, and if you havent moved you can just request a CRB from a neighboring town or city.
Keep your mouth shut about it and no one will find out. You will gain increased marketability by being able to apply to more regions, and you dont have to worry about the offense becoming the factor that results in rejection. This really only goes wrong when ITs forget that three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. Keep that information to yourself, and it wont be a problem.

Most ITs are somewhere in between, though leadership sides more on the Sid side (they want to know everything) and more ITs are on the PG side.

Another option is to see if you can have the offense expunged or sealed. This will keep it from appearing on a regional and local CRB.
tommypizza
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:35 am

Re: DUI

Post by tommypizza »

DUIs generally do not go on your criminal record...only driving record.,.and schools only ask for criminal. At least that is my experience.

If they ask, lie...never works out well telling the truth in this situation. You have already been punished for your lack of good judgement.
senator
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:53 am

Re: DUI

Post by senator »

It's just like on an interview when they ask you what are your weaknesses. Only a fool would actually tell them.

Keep your mouth shut - odds are they won't ever find out. And if they do, just say, "Wow. That happened so long ago that I forgot. Sorry."
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

@BubbaJones

To expand on @senators response, if your IS is looking that deeply into your background, its likely they are looking for a reason to dismiss you. If it wouldnt be that it would be something else.
sid
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: DUI

Post by sid »

Certainly I advocate honesty.
And please consider the likelihood of this turning up on a required post-contract, pre-employment police check. An increasing number of schools are making signed contracts contingent on producing clean police clearances. It sounds like your DUI is from the US, and also that you are from the US. If that's true, your required home country police check will turn this up. If you disclose first, the school will not be surprised or upset to see it on the police check. If you hid it, bye bye job.
And that's just the schools. Some countries have laws (as opposed to schools having more flexible policies) which would preclude you from getting a visa.
I'm not trying to beat you up. Personally I'd hire you without hesitation if you disclosed and the law allowed it. But I've also done hiring in countries where it is illegal, and I don't see the point of putting yourself in the very embarrassing and time consuming position of getting a job only to have it yanked back a couple months later when the police check comes in.
dragonguy
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: DUI

Post by dragonguy »

Already lots of great advice.

Another thing to consider is different schools/countries/recruiting agencies ask different questions.

I think Search asks "have you ever been CONVICTED of a crime". You were arrested but were you actually convicted?
Some schools ask "have you ever had a felony"? Most DUI's aren't felonies, it is just a misdemeanor, at least in the US.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10053
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

@dragonguy

Leadership sees, hears and thinks what it wants, I doubt if they have an ulterior motive they are going to accept splitting hairs or use of terms. If they want to/are offended their going to say it was misrepresentation, regardless of the exact language.
BubbaJones
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:52 am

Re: DUI

Post by BubbaJones »

Hi,

I was the OP for this topic, and rudely forgot to thank the various posters who took the time to put up their thoughts, ideas and advice. Although it's a bit belated - thank you - much appreciated.

So I decided it would be best to just come clean at interview stage. I wouldn't have been comfortable with lying, and it would be hanging over me for the entire time between contract signing and police check. With a family and bills to pay I needed the certainty and peace of mind, even if that certainty was a polite rejection.

Anyway, I got a few interviews, and just told them straight out at the beginning of the interview, and was offered a job on my second interview at a good tier 1(ish) school, though hopefully on the strength of my interview and references rather than my criminal history.

So, I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw from that, but being up front worked for me.
senator
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:53 am

Re: DUI

Post by senator »

DUI? You'll fit right in overseas.

If you come to school reeking of booze too, they might even make you principal.
sid
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: DUI

Post by sid »

Really glad it worked out for you! Thanks for the update.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10053
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Inquiry

Post by PsyGuy »

You wrote you had several interviews, did any of those ISs hear your confession and pass?
global_nomad
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: DUI

Post by global_nomad »

Yes, I have the same question as Psy. You say you got offered a job on your 2nd interview, but was it your first choice school? Meaning did a school (or schools) you wanted more pass on you?
BubbaJones
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:52 am

Re: DUI

Post by BubbaJones »

Thanks sid.

PsyGuy and global_nomad: one school politely declined, another wanted to take me on to the next stage of the interview process, and two more I told them that I'd accepted elsewhere before they had got back to me, so make of that what you will. The one that declined didn't cite the DUI as being a reason, though it might have been.

At least two were OK with it, and the other two I've no idea.
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