Please critique my plan

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Midori4040
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:07 am

Please critique my plan

Post by Midori4040 »

Hello, everyone. I'm brand new to the forum and have really enjoyed reading through the various threads here and gaining a ton of really valuable information.

I'm here because I need some feedback on my plan to pursue international teaching... with the prospect of returning to the USA one day to teach or be in a Learning support role.

Here is are my stats:

38 year old female with a husband, no kids
Bachelors in Psychology
Masters in Counseling

Next week, I am enrolling in the March Teacher Ready cohort. I plan to become certified in Special Education. My feeling is that this is a good accompaniment to my background as a counselor. I also plan to take the test in Guidance & Counseling. I also have enough credits in Social Science to take the Middle School social sciences test.

I am currently living in Western Europe and will find out this week about 3 potential student teaching placements. One is a British school, one an IB school and the last is an American school. I feel pretty confident that one of the three will take me on as a student teacher (based upon favorable feedback so far).

If all goes well, in December 2016, I will take my Florida tests and gain certification as a teacher.

My questions are:

1. Does my counseling background (10 years professional experience working with adolescents with emotional disabilities) and teacher certification from the US sound like viable starting off points to gain a job as a Special Education or Learning Support teacher, internationally?

2. My hope is that the school I student teach for might hire me if there is a position available. Likewise, maybe they'll consider me for another branch of their school, but in a different country. Is this too hopeful, based upon the fact that I'm not starting off in the international landscape with 2 years of US experience under my belt?

3. I plan to return to the US eventually. Will having only international experience significantly hinder my chances of finding work in the US?

If anyone who reads this has experienced Teacher Ready, I'd appreciate your feedback on the program.

Thank you for taking the time to leave a response. -Midori
wrldtrvlr123
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Location: Japan

Re: Please critique my plan

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

Hi: Here is my two cents, FWIW.

1. Does my counseling background (10 years professional experience working with adolescents with emotional disabilities) and teacher certification from the US sound like viable starting off points to gain a job as a Special Education or Learning Support teacher, internationally?

Yes, I am a SPED teacher with a similar background. I did get alternative certification in FL and taught there for two years before going overseas. I found a reasonable number of schools interested in me with that. I later went back and got my Masters in SPED which opened up more possibilities. I think that your education and experience will give you some credibility with some schools although many will only care about comparable experience working in a K-12 environment.


2. My hope is that the school I student teach for might hire me if there is a position available. Likewise, maybe they'll consider me for another branch of their school, but in a different country. Is this too hopeful, based upon the fact that I'm not starting off in the international landscape with 2 years of US experience under my belt?

The fact that you would be student teaching there would certainly be a strong selling point (presuming that you impress them of course). That, coupled with your somewhat relevant background would mean you would likely be more attractive to them then you would be to a school that does not know you at all. Whether they would hire you outright there or at another branch is a possibility. How good a possibility is difficult to gauge without knowing anything about the schools (bigger/better schools tend to have much higher minimum standards) and/or the personalities involved. In any case, it would not be unheard of or completely beyond the realm of possibility that this would be doable. Even at top tier schools it can often come down to who you know and how much they like you.

3. I plan to return to the US eventually. Will having only international experience significantly hinder my chances of finding work in the US?

Having no experience in the US could have a negative impact on a future job search there. That being said, it might depend on whether any of your int'l experience was within an American curriculum school. Also, while many principals might shy away from your unorthodox background, a fair amount will likely be intrigued enough to give you an interview (regardless of what curriculum you have experience with). Then it would be up to you to convince them that your experience/success is relevant to their current student challenges/population. You could always try and start a US career with a charter school/private school/int'l school in the states where your int'l experience might even be a plus for you.

The upside here is that it would be in SPED as opposed to a specific content area. We are somewhat of a unique breed and can usually find work in most locations. I did go back to the states for two years between int'l gigs and found a job before I found a house to buy (and that was before the Masters). They pretty much snatched me up. My int'l experience had a curiosity factor but didn't seem to help or hurt me either way.

So, some things to consider and some obstacles to overcome but it sounds like you are on the right track.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Well to begin with a few comments and observations:

A) Very few ITs return, especially in SPED/LS/SEN/LD, SPED in IE is basically SPED.Lite after a career in IE youd go back to the states and have a LOT of catching up to do, and you wont have the experience many DTs will have cultivated after years of working in the DE system.

B) I would STRONGLY advise contacting the FL DOE, its likely your degree in general "counseling" is not going to meet the requirements for a FL certificate in Guidance and Counseling, it may come close and require you to take some additional coursework (specifically the practicum in a K-12 setting) and most universities wont let you enroll in such a practicum without being a student in their program. Further there is no prior teaching requirement to qualify for the FL Guidance and Counseling certificate. You would be better off using those resources to complete whatever deficiencies if any for the Guidance and Counseling certificate.

C) SPED certification would be a marketable addition to a counselor, as the IS counselor often serves as part of if not the lead of the LS department, especially in small ISs that dont have very large departments. However in IE the mental Health aspect of a counselor is very different from the Guidance tasking aspect. Large ISs have counselors that do each role independently, and even in those that dont, the mental health aspect is much smaller than you will find in municipal DE.

D) Once your certified in FL, your credits do not matter you can add any instructional endorsement by taking the FTCE exam in the subject you wish.

E) Is the iB IS an IB world school, if its not or has a BS track as well that would be ideal.

F) If you are not an American I would advise you look into the Teach Now program as opposed to the Teach Ready program, otherwise you will not get an actual certificate through Teach Ready.

Regarding your questions:

1) Sure, you ahve a very valuable background, again though most of a School Counselors tasking does not revolve around mental health. Its mostly crises intervention and acute care that you refer out to. The rest is the master schedule, and general supporting administration and student management tasks.

2) Counselors are a niche field, many of them transition from municipal DSs to IE and find themselves doing vastly different tasks. However your cooperating IS MAY have a position for you, the best way to determine that is contact the ISs current counselor and inquire what their plans are. Since Teach Ready, etc. have to make placements in accredited ISs these tend to be upper tier ISs, and many counselors tend to stay throughout their career once they get to that level. If the current counselor isnt leaving unless the IS drastically increases enrollment there probably isnt an opportunity for you within their IS.

That as it may be the Teach Ready independent field experience is only 5 days, which as a SPED/LS/LD/SEN means you will learn very, very, very little in regards to practical aspects of SPED.

3) Yes especially for SPED and Counseling, you likely wont be up on state and national laws and regulations, and they vary by state. School Counselor in an IS is kind of a cushy job. Your good at it as long as your well liked. There are no examinations from students attached to your success and a lot of the tasks are more social. If people (staff, students, parents, leadership) like you, your accessible and you complete tasks on time its hard to be 'bad" as a counselor. Compared to a municipal DS counselor who has real cases, real pathology and real issues to work with, many DS leadership see international counselors as having it "easy".

4) Teach Ready is a fine program, Teach Now is better. The differences mostly revolve around the field experience.
Midori4040
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Please critique my plan

Post by Midori4040 »

Thank you @PsyGuy & @wrldtrvlr123.

I appreciate the time you've both taken to leave such detailed responses.

PsyGuy, you bring up a good point: I would STRONGLY advise contacting the FL DOE, its likely your degree in general "counseling" is not going to meet the requirements for a FL certificate in Guidance and Counseling, it may come close and require you to take some additional coursework (specifically the practicum in a K-12 setting) and most universities wont let you enroll in such a practicum without being a student in their program. Further there is no prior teaching requirement to qualify for the FL Guidance and Counseling certificate. You would be better off using those resources to complete whatever deficiencies if any for the Guidance and Counseling certificate.

I all but meet the state requirements for this test. The vast majority of the graduate classes I took in my Counseling Masters suffice to meet the standards for the Guidance & Counseling requirements.

Your comment drew me to investigate the requirements to take the Special Education (K-12) test. My Bachelor & Masters degrees don't even get in to the ballpark for qualifying to take the Special Education test.

@wrldtrvlr123, what was your undergrad in? What alternative certification were you able to do to certify in as a Special Education teacher?

Now I'm feeling like I'm at a dead end with this, or I'll have to certify as a Social Studies teacher.

Any other suggestions? Crap.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Midori4040

My apologizes I didnt clarify myself very well. In FL (and this is pretty typical of most states) their are two type of professional certificates those that require a bachelors and those that require a masters. For Bachelors certifications (such as special education) you need to complete a teacher EPP/ITT program (thats Teach Ready) in an initial certification field such as special education (called Exceptional Student Education in FL) and pass the three FTCE tests (one being in Exceptional Student education). You dont need a degree in SPED.

The certifications that require a masters program such as Student Guidance and Counseling require a Masters program because the only training pathways are through University preparation which includes as part of it a Masters degree in that subject. If FL looks at your counseling degree program and approves it in whole, all you need to do is take the FTCE in School Guidance and counseling.
They would likely require you to do some deficiency courses

Once you have a certificate you can add additional bachelors level subject endorsements by completing the appropriate FTCE examination, you dont need additional credit hours or courses.

Ounce you have a certificate in anything you can then meet the School Guidance and Counseling requirements and take the exam and add that field, you dont need any credits or courses for bachelor level certifications (which includes social studies).

My advice was to see what you would have to do to apply directly for the School Guidance and Counseling certificate, since you have 10+ years of experience. They might approve you to take the exam and apply for the School Guidance and Counseling certification directly, or their deficiencies might be far less than 9 months in Teach Ready and not having to do a teaching field experience. If you can do that, then you would have a professional certificate and you could add SPED, social studies, etc. by taking just that test (no credit hours or coursework needed).

My concern was that Teach Ready being a business wants to sell you their product and they may not have counseled you that there could be other cheaper, easier, faster routes to a certification.

Most states that have examination pathways to certification allow you to generally add classroom certifications by taking the test but require you to complete a Masters degree program with certification for fields such as principal/administration, school counselor, school librarian, etc.
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Please critique my plan

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

Midori4040 wrote:
> Thank you @PsyGuy & @wrldtrvlr123.
>
> I appreciate the time you've both taken to leave such detailed responses.
>
> PsyGuy, you bring up a good point: I would STRONGLY advise contacting the
> FL DOE, its likely your degree in general "counseling" is not
> going to meet the requirements for a FL certificate in Guidance and
> Counseling, it may come close and require you to take some additional
> coursework (specifically the practicum in a K-12 setting) and most
> universities wont let you enroll in such a practicum without being a
> student in their program. Further there is no prior teaching requirement to
> qualify for the FL Guidance and Counseling certificate. You would be better
> off using those resources to complete whatever deficiencies if any for the
> Guidance and Counseling certificate.
>
> I all but meet the state requirements for this test. The vast majority of
> the graduate classes I took in my Counseling Masters suffice to meet the
> standards for the Guidance & Counseling requirements.
>
> Your comment drew me to investigate the requirements to take the Special
> Education (K-12) test. My Bachelor & Masters degrees don't even get in
> to the ballpark for qualifying to take the Special Education test.
>
> @wrldtrvlr123, what was your undergrad in? What alternative certification
> were you able to do to certify in as a Special Education teacher?
>
> Now I'm feeling like I'm at a dead end with this, or I'll have to certify
> as a Social Studies teacher.
>
> Any other suggestions? Crap.
--------------------
At the time they were desperate for SPED teachers (even more so than usual) and I was hired on a temporary certificate after passing all of the tests (with a BA in Psychology). I signed up for their Alternative Certification program for teachers already teaching in Fl but it it looked to be a major PITA and I realized that with the credit they were giving me for teaching the subject full time (6 credit hours for 2 years) I only needed a few classes to meet the requirements for my 5 year professional certificate. So I chose to take a couple of classes rather than deal with the mentoring, portfolio, video taped lessons etc.

Unfortunately you are at a disadvantage by not being in Florida in the system in some way. As PG says though, if you get certified in ANY subject, you can then add most subjects to that certificate by simply passing the subject area test. So, use whatever subject you are closest to for meeting the credit requirements and get that initial certificate to use as your linchpin for adding the area(s) that will be most beneficial for you.
Midori4040
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Please critique my plan

Post by Midori4040 »

Thank you for taking the time to write out such a thoughtful and detailed response.

If I've heard you correctly, I am eligible to sit for the Social Studies and Special Education tests upon completion of my Teacher Ready program.

Once I have certification in those areas, I can see if my Georgia Masters degree and professional experience would suffice to meet the requirements for the Guidance and Counseling test.

Just to take a stab at it, I sent a message to the certification people at the DOE in Florida to see if my 10 years professional experience, masters and upcoming 135 hours of classroom time I have upcoming in my Teacher Ready cert. program would suffice for adequate experience to sit for the Guidance and Counseling exam. All I can do is try.

I admit that I"m still fuzzy how I will be able to sit for the Special Education test. Teach-Now also offers certification in Special Education K-12. I'm not quite sure how I qualify for this with a Bachelors in Psychology.

I'm sorry, but what am I not understanding? I can see that I qualify for Social Studies. I look on the DOE website and see that I meet the minimum qualifications based upon the Social Studies courses I took in undergrad.

But, how am I eligible to sit for the Exceptional Child test if none of my undergrad or graduate classes were in Special Ed?

Thank you and I'm sorry I'm not picking this up quickly.
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
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Location: Japan

Re: Please critique my plan

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

I'm not sure how or why Florida offers this except as a courtesy to certified teachers (and a way to make more money off of them). I added Elementary Education to my SPED certificate the same way, just by passing the test.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Midori4040

Time mostly, those regulations and many like them in the states were written before the "teacher shortage" happened, and Alternative Certification Programs (ACP) were created. They were written for traditional university preparation. At that time psychology the entry pathway into SPED/SEN/LS/LD. So when a candidate wants to become a teacher the Universities use those regulations when building their program. Then ACP programs happened. Essentially the ACP program is giving you 1) Something of a individualized apprenticeship in your teaching field and 2) A general program in meds/peds, assessment, and C&I that is applicable to all teachers.

Essentially you will learn those SPED/SEN skills in the field/classroom as part of your training program. The program is shifting the competencies that you would normally STUDY in the classroom to PRACTICE in the classroom.

Many states allow teachers to add endorsement by examination because EPP and ITT programs dont concern themselves with subject content but focus almost exclusively on educator and teaching competencies. The vast majority of school leaving content in K-12 is first year university level. You dont need 30 hours in an upper division content field to teach first year of university anything. So they offer to test you on fundamental knowledge in that field by completing an examination.
Midori4040
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Please critique my plan

Post by Midori4040 »

Thank you, @PsyGuy for the response. I appreciate it.

The internships at the international schools didn't materialize in time to start Teacher Ready in March. Probably for the best as the country we are in now is a PITA for jobs and is over-saturated at the moment.

It's looking like we may head east to Thailand where I will reach out to a school there to complete my internship. I might even go the CELTA route and teach English for a few years.

In the meantime, I am grateful for the feedback here.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Midori4040

Dont go the CELTA route its such a huge waste of time and money. Any ES in LOS that requires a CELTA is going to have managers/ownership with a big ego, your DOS is probably going to be an elitest DB. You wont bank significantly more coin.
Midori4040
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Please critique my plan

Post by Midori4040 »

Maybe then I'll try and find an International school in Chiang Mai that will let me complete my Teacher Ready classroom requirements. I just read through a lot of prior posts about TEFL & CELTA and I can see your point, @PsyGuy. My CELTA experience won't count for anything in the IS environment.

Maybe I'll certify in ESL and also take the SPED tests and Social Studies. If a job doesn't' materialize with an international school after completing Teacher Ready, I think I ought to be able to at least find a job in a school teaching ESL while I wait.

Thank you, again, for your help.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Midori4040

I would add all the special population credentials: ESOL, SPED, G&T. G&T may seem like a waste but its a catch all general credential for cram schools.
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