First I want to assure you that I back Katherine 100%....
I was in Kuwait during the liberation, spent several years here and now I returned and have been here for the last 2 years....Kuwait is not what it was or what most westerners think this is....
Kuwait has and will have a pecking order that its felt with more impact due to the size of Kuwait, it goes something like this..
Kuwaiti, Bedoun (Kuwaiti related), Arabs, American, European, Asian..its just the way it is, the ony way around it is by converting (Islam) or look the other way, I love Kuwait but its the only 2 ways about it...
Kuwait is not a democracy, it is a decreed democracy that is neither supported not liked very much by most Kuwaiti....unlike the US that was a Republic and fell in to a Democracy...Kuwait will always remain what it is a Kingdom...who can and has eliminated the Senate not once but several times....
Dont waste your time with the Embassy, in Kuwait or in anyother country, they are not here to serve US citizens they are here to represent Interest.....I have traveled the world...they wont do a thing for you....you can, thou buy a shirt, have a beer or get pages added to your passport...more than that and your wasting time..
Just like the US military, who have no SOFA (Forces Agreement) with Kuwait the bases are not US bases but Kuwaiti Bases, they tolerate us nothing more nothing less we serve at the pleasure of the Amir.....
The best you can do is not to apoligize the way we understand it, stand your ground but be polite about it, if you give in and lose face, they will not respect you and your done, they will see you as weak..its the Arab Way...
People here imitate, they imitate western styles with an Arab twist....they want results without the work....
Remember most of the Arab world went from tribal nations to a world power house due to OIL...not because they discovered the cure for cancer..
A good friend of mine an influential Kuwait has several daughters with certificates from the Ministry of Educaiton, interesting since they never set a foot in school...its just the way it is..dont kid yourself the US was that way 50 / 70 yrs ago...we just dont remember...
Remember we had jets when they first started to have cars....it will take several generation for them to get the issues of car setas, seat belts, or turning your lights on when driving..
Best thing to do, is make noise, news media, blogs, letters, etc...arabs dont like to be in the spotlight specially when wrong....but be respectfull...they also have real good lawyers that can help...
Dont get me wrong, Kuwaiti citizens do serve time, go to jail and some are in the Black List, but that is not the rule.....
When in Rome, do like the Romans, during Desert Storm we had a motto....Just Defend Us, Dont offend Us...they paid for a service (Liberation) now its time to go on with life...only the older generation remember....
If I can help in anyway tell Katherine to drop me a line...
PS
Jail in Kuwaiti is not safe, mental and physical abuse including rape is not rare, they can and will keep you up to 4 days without a charge , you are not allowed to place a call and your cellphone will be taken away, you will be without contact for those 4 days....food , geez limited and at times not available....
Al-Bayan Bilingual School
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jaapolanco
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:10 am
- Location: Kuwait
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zackandedie
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:00 am
- Location: uae
Smilar incidentes does happen on a daily basis over there specially with the labour force but the outside world gets no press and one has to have good contacts inside to get out of it fairly, i never drove over there during my 6yrs the reazon, i had seen and heard to much i was to scared of the consequences, unless one has good contacts inside your are on your own, very sad but true. I would never go back there purely based on my passed experience, life is to short to miss out.
It really doesn't matter if this is the first or one hundredth time a teacher has been detained. It only takes once to convince me this is not a safe place in which to set foot.
It's true that our unions can not be depended on 100%. That said, I am not afraid I will be detained in the US because I kept a student after school!
I love travelling. But I think I'm better off working here and spending my summers in other countries. And I'll skip Kuwait, thankyou.
It's true that our unions can not be depended on 100%. That said, I am not afraid I will be detained in the US because I kept a student after school!
I love travelling. But I think I'm better off working here and spending my summers in other countries. And I'll skip Kuwait, thankyou.
zackandedie says: Smilar incidentes does happen on a daily basis over there specially with the labour force but the outside world gets no press and one has to have good contacts inside to get out of it fairly, i never drove over there during my 6yrs the reazon, i had seen and heard to much i was to scared of the consequences, unless one has good contacts inside your are on your own, very sad but true. I would never go back there purely based on my passed experience, life is to short to miss out.'
It's hard to read the English- I take it you weren't a teacher in Kuwait, so you really don't know how teachers are treated, except by third hand knowledge. So you never drove here? Well I have been driving here for 13 years without incident and find it no more aggressive than many cities throughout the world. 6 years without a car probably added to you boredom and dislike of our desert kingdom.
It's hard to read the English- I take it you weren't a teacher in Kuwait, so you really don't know how teachers are treated, except by third hand knowledge. So you never drove here? Well I have been driving here for 13 years without incident and find it no more aggressive than many cities throughout the world. 6 years without a car probably added to you boredom and dislike of our desert kingdom.
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zackandedie
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:00 am
- Location: uae
MISKI
Am so sorry, is this forum just for native english speaking teachers??? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to use the english oxford diccionary next time just for you i promise as if everyone has to have a degree to teach in kuwait please ...:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :ll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
My point was to help those whom have not visited kuwait before purely based on my personal experience there cos if i have had all this advise years ago i would have never set foot there either.
MISKI
By the way, if you must know I had a private driver the whole time i was working and living there thank you very much for your concerns. I would recommend to anyone, stress free and no hassle with the law :)
I speak a few languages how many can you ???!!!
Am so sorry, is this forum just for native english speaking teachers??? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to use the english oxford diccionary next time just for you i promise as if everyone has to have a degree to teach in kuwait please ...:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :ll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
My point was to help those whom have not visited kuwait before purely based on my personal experience there cos if i have had all this advise years ago i would have never set foot there either.
MISKI
By the way, if you must know I had a private driver the whole time i was working and living there thank you very much for your concerns. I would recommend to anyone, stress free and no hassle with the law :)
I speak a few languages how many can you ???!!!
No, it was hard to read the English, and so I assumed you weren't a teacher, although you are commenting on a teachers'/schools' forum
( strange).
So instead of simply 'dissing 'the country, why not give us a few examples of what your life was like there ?
Home:
Job:
Hobbies:
Social Life:
Income:
Outgoing expenses:
Horrific Incidents:
Then we might have an idea of why it was so bad.
Re- having a degree to teach in Kuwait, the Ministry of Education require a degree in teaching or a related field and if school owners break the law then it is not the Kuwaiti govt's fault- the teacher is the liar and the school to blame perhaps! I wouldn't know as I am more than qualified ( though slightly underpaid! ) for the job I do!
( strange).
So instead of simply 'dissing 'the country, why not give us a few examples of what your life was like there ?
Home:
Job:
Hobbies:
Social Life:
Income:
Outgoing expenses:
Horrific Incidents:
Then we might have an idea of why it was so bad.
Re- having a degree to teach in Kuwait, the Ministry of Education require a degree in teaching or a related field and if school owners break the law then it is not the Kuwaiti govt's fault- the teacher is the liar and the school to blame perhaps! I wouldn't know as I am more than qualified ( though slightly underpaid! ) for the job I do!
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jeffofarabia
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:32 am
- Location: Shanghai, China
I have lived in Kuwait for four years. I like it here. I am sorry about the situation, but there are difficulties in living overseas. Embassies should help us, but the fact is they cannot always do that. I have had the great fortune of teaching in five different countries. They all had imperfections. China is full of human rights abuse. How can anyone possibly go and teach there? Don't you care about human rights? I do, but I still went there and learned about the world. Korea is full of dog-eaters and Japan is full of dirty old men who molest young girls on the subway. Surely I would never go to those countries? Yet, I did. America, my home, is full of schools where parents don't care, or are too high to care; where kids are surly, violent, pregnant or on their way to prison. I taught there and I don't miss it. I have had my fair share of difficulties in Kuwait, but I don't want to leave just because another teacher is having a difficult time. How about the Philippina maids who are trapped in their embassy, waiting to go home. How about the non-Kuwaiti students whose parents are being abused on a daily basis by their Kuwaiti boss? Who is going to help them get a better future if not for teachers? That is why I am staying. I feel I make a difference. So if you don't think you can make a difference, please don't come to Kuwait. If you want to help then please come.
Good luck in getting out of Kuwait. As for me I am staying.
Good luck in getting out of Kuwait. As for me I am staying.
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zackandedie
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:00 am
- Location: uae
Home: Moved house 4 times within my 6 year stay, the places were just nightmare after nightmare
Job: Very rewarding and very nice working colleagues and not forgeting the long holidays which i did appreciate back then
Hobbies: shopping,handycrafts and swimming in the pool as beaches are polluted with sewage and oil and full of broken glass and litter
Social Life: house . and more house . and vice versa, no live concerts or local bar/club to chill out
Income: good
Outgoing expenses: to much on food and more food and clothes shopping and getting away for short breaks out of the country in order to keep my insanity and the huge phone bills ofcourse
Horrific Incidents: could write a book but to boring and depressing :wink:
Job: Very rewarding and very nice working colleagues and not forgeting the long holidays which i did appreciate back then
Hobbies: shopping,handycrafts and swimming in the pool as beaches are polluted with sewage and oil and full of broken glass and litter
Social Life: house . and more house . and vice versa, no live concerts or local bar/club to chill out
Income: good
Outgoing expenses: to much on food and more food and clothes shopping and getting away for short breaks out of the country in order to keep my insanity and the huge phone bills ofcourse
Horrific Incidents: could write a book but to boring and depressing :wink:
[quote="zackandedie"]Home: Moved house 4 times within my 6 year stay, the places were just nightmare after nightmare
SO ONE IS TO ASSUME THAT NO SLUMS EXIST IN THE US?
Job: Very rewarding and very nice working colleagues and not forgeting the long holidays which i did appreciate back then
BUT WHERE WAS IT? WERE YOU ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO TEACH WITHOUT QUALIFICATIONS AND CON THE PAYING CUSTOMER?ONE ASSUMES YU WERE IF YOU GOT LONG HOLIDAYS.
Hobbies: shopping,handycrafts and swimming in the pool as beaches are polluted with sewage and oil and full of broken glass and litter
HAVE NEVER SEEN SEWAGE ON THE BEACHES BUT I HAVE SEEN BROKEN GLASS. BUT THEN AGAIN KUWAIT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONOPOLY ON GLASS STREWN BEACHES. AS FOR THE OIL- WELL IT IS AN OIL PRODUCING COUNTRY HABIBTI AND WE ARE STILL RECOVERING FROM IRAI INDUCED OIL FIRE POLLUTION.
Social Life: house . and more house . and vice versa, no live concerts or local bar/club to chill out
IF YOUR SOCIAL LIFE IS ALCHOHOL DEPENDENT THEN KUWAIT CERTAINLY IS NOT THE PLACE FOR YOU.
Income: good
AS ARE MOST WESTERN EXPATS
Outgoing expenses: to much on food and more food and clothes shopping and getting away for short breaks out of the country in order to keep my insanity and the huge phone bills ofcourse
TOO MUCH ON FOOD-MMM, DON'T THINK SO, I JUST WENT TO MY LOCAL UK SHOP AND SPENT THE EQUIVALENT OF 3kd ON CHOCOLATE, PEPSI, JUICE MILK AND A NEWSAPER. THAT WOULD COST ME ABOUT 1.5kd IN kUWAIT. GETTING AWAY FOR SHORT BREAKS IS NOT EXPENSIVE EITHER AS AL JAZEERA FLY eg. TO CYPRUS FOR 40kd (120$) RETURN
HUGE PHONE BILLS????ALL LANDLINE LOCAL CALLS ARE FREE?
Horrific Incidents: could write a book but to boring and depressing :wink:
SO NONE TO REPORT THEN >
[/quote]
SO ONE IS TO ASSUME THAT NO SLUMS EXIST IN THE US?
Job: Very rewarding and very nice working colleagues and not forgeting the long holidays which i did appreciate back then
BUT WHERE WAS IT? WERE YOU ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO TEACH WITHOUT QUALIFICATIONS AND CON THE PAYING CUSTOMER?ONE ASSUMES YU WERE IF YOU GOT LONG HOLIDAYS.
Hobbies: shopping,handycrafts and swimming in the pool as beaches are polluted with sewage and oil and full of broken glass and litter
HAVE NEVER SEEN SEWAGE ON THE BEACHES BUT I HAVE SEEN BROKEN GLASS. BUT THEN AGAIN KUWAIT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONOPOLY ON GLASS STREWN BEACHES. AS FOR THE OIL- WELL IT IS AN OIL PRODUCING COUNTRY HABIBTI AND WE ARE STILL RECOVERING FROM IRAI INDUCED OIL FIRE POLLUTION.
Social Life: house . and more house . and vice versa, no live concerts or local bar/club to chill out
IF YOUR SOCIAL LIFE IS ALCHOHOL DEPENDENT THEN KUWAIT CERTAINLY IS NOT THE PLACE FOR YOU.
Income: good
AS ARE MOST WESTERN EXPATS
Outgoing expenses: to much on food and more food and clothes shopping and getting away for short breaks out of the country in order to keep my insanity and the huge phone bills ofcourse
TOO MUCH ON FOOD-MMM, DON'T THINK SO, I JUST WENT TO MY LOCAL UK SHOP AND SPENT THE EQUIVALENT OF 3kd ON CHOCOLATE, PEPSI, JUICE MILK AND A NEWSAPER. THAT WOULD COST ME ABOUT 1.5kd IN kUWAIT. GETTING AWAY FOR SHORT BREAKS IS NOT EXPENSIVE EITHER AS AL JAZEERA FLY eg. TO CYPRUS FOR 40kd (120$) RETURN
HUGE PHONE BILLS????ALL LANDLINE LOCAL CALLS ARE FREE?
Horrific Incidents: could write a book but to boring and depressing :wink:
SO NONE TO REPORT THEN >
[/quote]
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zackandedie
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:00 am
- Location: uae
miski wrote
'SO NONE TO REPORT THEN > '
You sound just like a t..... oops, sorry to desapoint you but i have nothing to report to you. I could not comment about usa as i have never lived there and i love live music concerts, booze is not a necessity to me but normalityin my evryday life is very much in my agenda.
Enjoy your summer break in the uk if that's where you are, you sound very exausted and frustrated sadly just like myself yrs back. No, i don't feel the need to go running back home for my summer holidays since i am very fortunate to be living in a normal civilized country, thank God!
'SO NONE TO REPORT THEN > '
You sound just like a t..... oops, sorry to desapoint you but i have nothing to report to you. I could not comment about usa as i have never lived there and i love live music concerts, booze is not a necessity to me but normalityin my evryday life is very much in my agenda.
Enjoy your summer break in the uk if that's where you are, you sound very exausted and frustrated sadly just like myself yrs back. No, i don't feel the need to go running back home for my summer holidays since i am very fortunate to be living in a normal civilized country, thank God!
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aasoudesuka
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:02 am
I suspect that a lot of this conflict arose from the fact that the administrator in question is a female, and the powerful Kuwaiti father is punishing her for what he perceives as the humiliation of his adolescent son being disciplined by a woman. Am I way off here? Of course this attitude is bound to clash with modern western educational practices.
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guestwriter
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:50 pm
Ok this is for Minski. To begin with it is wrong to hold Katherine Phillips period! If you were in America you would not be held or have a travel ban put on you. You would follow due process with your county school system. That school system would decide whether or not the teacher acted in an incorrect manner, not the PARENT.
I lived in Kuwait for 15 years and my family and I loved the wild, wild east. That is exactly what it is. Democracy is not for everyone only for 1st degree Kuwaities. You need to get off the cross Minski, your views are very arrogant and I'm a person who can speak of first hand experiences of the short comings of Kuwait. Yes the US has its many, many problems but don't make it sound like Kuwait doesn't. May I remind you that your young teens are sexually confused because of the oppressed ways. Proof go to facebook, or my space,I have seen my former students pages. Your young are confused and yes so are American teens in some way but we don't hide it, it's out there for every one to see. We don't send our pregnant teens to Cyprus for abortions. My husband has work with many people who have lost there sons to heroin. Oh yeah, let's remember I have never seen such a drug problem as in Kuwait. So get off your high horse.
I lived in Kuwait for 15 years and my family and I loved the wild, wild east. That is exactly what it is. Democracy is not for everyone only for 1st degree Kuwaities. You need to get off the cross Minski, your views are very arrogant and I'm a person who can speak of first hand experiences of the short comings of Kuwait. Yes the US has its many, many problems but don't make it sound like Kuwait doesn't. May I remind you that your young teens are sexually confused because of the oppressed ways. Proof go to facebook, or my space,I have seen my former students pages. Your young are confused and yes so are American teens in some way but we don't hide it, it's out there for every one to see. We don't send our pregnant teens to Cyprus for abortions. My husband has work with many people who have lost there sons to heroin. Oh yeah, let's remember I have never seen such a drug problem as in Kuwait. So get off your high horse.
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interested
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:57 am
- Location: transplanted in Kuwait
detained teacher
I do support the actions of the ISR, feel for Katherine and her parents. I have also been following the incident since it began.
Please, we must be careful not to over react. This is an isolated incident. Having worked in Kuwait for over 9 years, and never having heard about any similar incidents, I feel safe in my position and that of my teachers.
As an administrator working with non-western and western teachers, all of whom have had to deal with difficult parents, none have ever been charged.
Many parents feel their child is above reproach and this can lead to difficult situation but hopefully worked out.
I use in-school suspensions as the second step in my discipline procedure and thus far have received support from my parents. Many, after being told their child has earned an out-of-school suspension, have requested I keep them at school in my time-out room.
Most administrators and boards work fairly.
This situation has nothing to do with the policies or procedures of private schools, but more with the power of an arrogant father who is attempting to use the situation to make a very sad point.
As international teachers we all must realize that "we are not in Kansas anymore".
Please, we must be careful not to over react. This is an isolated incident. Having worked in Kuwait for over 9 years, and never having heard about any similar incidents, I feel safe in my position and that of my teachers.
As an administrator working with non-western and western teachers, all of whom have had to deal with difficult parents, none have ever been charged.
Many parents feel their child is above reproach and this can lead to difficult situation but hopefully worked out.
I use in-school suspensions as the second step in my discipline procedure and thus far have received support from my parents. Many, after being told their child has earned an out-of-school suspension, have requested I keep them at school in my time-out room.
Most administrators and boards work fairly.
This situation has nothing to do with the policies or procedures of private schools, but more with the power of an arrogant father who is attempting to use the situation to make a very sad point.
As international teachers we all must realize that "we are not in Kansas anymore".