@auntiesocial
The OED despite loving it so is a laymans lexicon, in research we use the term measure not judge. I have a great deal of statistical literacy there is nothing "pseudo" about it.
Ive provided several means for instance the single point criterion of the ownership model, etc, and you can find the educator model description on this forum.
Statistical - is common on non-parametric data as well as quantifiable data.
I havent employed a proof fallacy. I need to support my claims as much and no more then the oppositional needs to support their claim. They dont need to prove me wrong, and I dont need to prove their assertions that UWC is a first tier school wrong either.
You should read more closely, this isnt a measurement issue in obtaining data its how the data is tabulated, the criterion and standards are irrelevant. What matters is how the results are grouped and the divisions aggregated. To simply this the first tier is small and full, UWCSEA isnt third tier, that leaves one tier left.
The tier system existence is not subjective it exists, the methodology and means of assessing it is subjective. This is the permanency fallacy. Conceptual constructs lack substance, and cant be directly observed or measures so they should be dismissed. Love doesnt exist because its a concept, I reject that conclusion, and find it lacking in merit and unpersuasive.
Examination results are one and only one factor in a robust system. They are not the only one.
Thats not a fact again thats just your opinion, and its a very admin one, tiers dont exist because their subjective and admins dont agree on them so they dont exist. The tier structure has utility to educators, and we will keep using it.
Theres nothing Ive lost, your claim Ive lost does not make it true, not is their any data thats self evident regarding my feelings of UWC, I have none. They are a second tier school.
Your position is essentially UWCSEA is 1st tier, and if its not their are no tiers. So if you cant be a VIP member of the club, the club doesnt matter. Take your ball home if you cant play the game.
@Sonnypest264
Of course I have my opinion, Im me, I dont represent an organization or other collective group or body. Im not going to substitute an outside opinion for my own because some other individual says so. Im open to argument and discussion and changing my mind, but doing so on fiat isnt going to happen.
@lookingforlefty
Many people support and defend a variety of evangelists and "Tony Robins" types. Thats all UWC is. They are respected by themselves and their believers. That doesnt mean their a bad school, they arent. There is nothing wrong with being a tier 2 school. Its just their organizational ego cant handle the reality, that their are better schools out there, and they just arent one of them. Their big name is jusy big because they say so, and want it to be.
I wouldnt go to Armenia regardless of the school.
UWC Schools and Armenia
Re: UWC Schools and Armenia
Dear PsyGuy,
So sorry but your last statements read like gibberish to me. It's as though you're regurgitating a badly digested statistics textbook.
Of course one may argue that, on a site like this, everything comes down to personal opinion. The fact that every other poster disagrees with you doesn't, in and of itself, make your opinion invalid, but it does make it more likely that people will see you for what you are: a blowhard.
Here, for what they are worth, are my opinions about your opinions:
1) I spend a lot of time in Singapore, and the impression I get is that UWCSEA is at least as highly regarded as SAS. Quality of education, examination results, university destinations of graduates, facilities, difficulty in gaining admission or employment - all these are on par or superior.
2) I have also done work with UWCs, and I am absolutely sure that no one connected with the movement would ever say that UWCSEA is the flagship college - least of all the people at UWCSEA.
So sorry but your last statements read like gibberish to me. It's as though you're regurgitating a badly digested statistics textbook.
Of course one may argue that, on a site like this, everything comes down to personal opinion. The fact that every other poster disagrees with you doesn't, in and of itself, make your opinion invalid, but it does make it more likely that people will see you for what you are: a blowhard.
Here, for what they are worth, are my opinions about your opinions:
1) I spend a lot of time in Singapore, and the impression I get is that UWCSEA is at least as highly regarded as SAS. Quality of education, examination results, university destinations of graduates, facilities, difficulty in gaining admission or employment - all these are on par or superior.
2) I have also done work with UWCs, and I am absolutely sure that no one connected with the movement would ever say that UWCSEA is the flagship college - least of all the people at UWCSEA.
Re: UWC Schools and Armenia
Interesting note. Dr. David Hawley, formally the President of UWC Pearson College, is the new Chief academic officer at the main IBO office in the Netherlands. "Thats all UWC is. They are respected by themselves and their believers." Apparently, the IBO is a believer...
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auntiesocial
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:10 am
Re: UWC Schools and Armenia
Psy Guy
Again, please provide data. Standard deviation of what? You do understand that statistics involves measurement and, therefore, NUMBERS, don't you? Give us some actual values. What are you measuring?
1) "this isnt a measurement issue in obtaining data its how the data is tabulated"
WHAT DATA? AGAIN REFER TO MY FIRST POINT.
2) "The tier system existence is not subjective it exists"
WHERE? SHOW US PROOF!
3) "Examination results are one and only one factor in a robust system. They are not the only one"
EXACTLY. SO WHAT OTHER MEASURABLE CRITERIA DO YOU HAVE DATA FOR?
4) "tiers dont exist because their subjective and admins dont agree on them so they dont exist. The tier structure has utility to educators, and we will keep using it."
THIS DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS POINT (2)
"Your position is essentially UWCSEA is 1st tier"
SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE SAID THIS. QUOTE ME.
Stop embarrassing yourself!
Again, please provide data. Standard deviation of what? You do understand that statistics involves measurement and, therefore, NUMBERS, don't you? Give us some actual values. What are you measuring?
1) "this isnt a measurement issue in obtaining data its how the data is tabulated"
WHAT DATA? AGAIN REFER TO MY FIRST POINT.
2) "The tier system existence is not subjective it exists"
WHERE? SHOW US PROOF!
3) "Examination results are one and only one factor in a robust system. They are not the only one"
EXACTLY. SO WHAT OTHER MEASURABLE CRITERIA DO YOU HAVE DATA FOR?
4) "tiers dont exist because their subjective and admins dont agree on them so they dont exist. The tier structure has utility to educators, and we will keep using it."
THIS DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS POINT (2)
"Your position is essentially UWCSEA is 1st tier"
SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE SAID THIS. QUOTE ME.
Stop embarrassing yourself!
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lookingforlefty
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:15 pm
Re: UWC Schools and Armenia
The "tier" system is based on how well a school can make money, dominate its market, turn away bad students, hire good teachers, and get or maintain prestige in its community. Tier 1 schools tend to accomplish all these things, while lower-tier schools accomplish only some of them or none.
It's hard to place UWC schools in this tier system because they get most of their money from donors. (UWCSEA might be an exception.) The goal is not to build a better mousetrap, the goal is probably whatever the donors say it is. That's why they tend to care a lot about ideology. Traditionally, as far as I can tell, UWC has been a very left-wing, very British ideal of a perfect DP program. The IB was set up across town from Atlantic College for a reason. As far as the IBDP is concerned, UWC is probably the purest example of a DP program. PsyGuy has a point that it sounds a little cult-ish. As far as staff, they tend to hire alumni and other true believers, and anyway it doesn't sound like an easy job. The poster above is right, a lot of UWC types end up working for the IB or publishing textbooks.
UWC have excellent DP programs. I think most people agree on that. Otherwise it is hard to judge how good they are at being a school. Take away their donor money and they wouldn't exist.
It's hard to place UWC schools in this tier system because they get most of their money from donors. (UWCSEA might be an exception.) The goal is not to build a better mousetrap, the goal is probably whatever the donors say it is. That's why they tend to care a lot about ideology. Traditionally, as far as I can tell, UWC has been a very left-wing, very British ideal of a perfect DP program. The IB was set up across town from Atlantic College for a reason. As far as the IBDP is concerned, UWC is probably the purest example of a DP program. PsyGuy has a point that it sounds a little cult-ish. As far as staff, they tend to hire alumni and other true believers, and anyway it doesn't sound like an easy job. The poster above is right, a lot of UWC types end up working for the IB or publishing textbooks.
UWC have excellent DP programs. I think most people agree on that. Otherwise it is hard to judge how good they are at being a school. Take away their donor money and they wouldn't exist.