UWC Schools and Armenia

[SonnyCrockett]

Anybody have experience of any of these? I have seen a few jobs come up at their new place in Armenia, although I'm not sure what the package will be like (wondering if it will be similar to neighbouring countries like Azerbaijan). From what I have seen a lot of UWC places look impressive but seem to be out in the middle of nowhere.

[PsyGuy]

Well its Armenia to begin with, but some people like to ignore the approach of oncoming trains.

UWC runs mostly lower tier schools and they cant compete with the upper tier schools that due to government and corporate placement of operations are in more metropolitan areas.

[shadowjack]

University World Colleges are a mix of tuition and scholarship students. They are quite good schools and students get a quality education. It is just not really an "international school system".

This from Wikipedia (and hey, for those Wiki bashers, Wikipedia errors are about the same or slightly better than the Encyclopedia Brittanica - with the addendum that Wikipedia is free!)

United World Colleges (or UWC) is an education movement comprising 14 international schools and colleges, national committees in more than 140 countries, and a series of short educational programmes. Students are selected from around the globe based on their merit and potential. UWC schools, colleges and national committees offer scholarship and bursary schemes as well as accepting a number of fee-paying students that varies by college.

The UWC international organisation is a British-based foundation and has 14 schools and colleges in Canada, Hong Kong, India, Italy, Norway, Singapore, Swaziland, the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, Armenia, Costa Rica, Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Netherlands; national committees in more than 140 countries; a portfolio of short programmes running in numerous countries; a network of more than 50,000 alumni from more than 181 countries;[1] and an international office in London.

Nine UWC colleges teach the International Baccalaureate, with three schools in Singapore, the Netherlands and Swaziland which, on top of the IB, also teach a pre-16 syllabus to younger students. The now-closed UWC vocational college in Venezuela accepted students at tertiary level and taught a Higher Diploma in Farm Administration. Each UWC typically comprises between 200 and 300 students from about 85 countries

[momentofclarity]

Not sure where Psyguy is getting his information but the UWC program is highly respected on the international circuit and also highly exclusive in terms of student admission. The school in Singapore is massive with 2 campus' and over 4000 students, it was the school the Singapore government selected for expansion. Many of the campus' are very small, but only take exceptionally high end students. The one in Canada for example (Lester B. Pearson College) only runs a Grade 11 & 12 program with less than 200 students in the school (approximately 80/grade). The admission policy (outside of Singapore) is generally students are nominated by committee for admission, there isn't typically an admission program. I can't imagine a campus in Armenia will be any different. As far as tiers go the Singapore schools easily fall into the elite schools in the region. The teaching packages are very generous for the respective region but the workload and expectations on teachers can be very high. I currently work at a very good school (based on opinions I have seen on this forum) and I would consider moving to any UWC a step forward.

[PsyGuy]

@momentofclarity

No they arent, theyre a chain provider that flys under the radar. I have NEVER heart an IT list any UWC school when asked what their top schools or dream schools would be.

They are selective in terms of admitting local host nationals. Which is what they are an education service provider that hires foreignors to work in what are essentially private schools for locals.

UWC is never the elite school in the region, SAS is the elite school in Singapore,

[momentofclarity]

Well that exits me from a pointless conversation, and proves conclusively you have limited to no experience in anything close to a decent school in not only Asia but just about anywhere else in the world.

I wouldn't hesitate to work in any UWC, you are guaranteed to be working with exceptional students (local or not), working with outstanding teachers on a beautiful campus and well compensated for your efforts.

Enjoy your middling experience Psyguy, mediocrity suits some better than others.

[PsyGuy]

@momentofclarity

Thats because I consider my position significantly strong to withstand debate, and when the discussion degenerates to ad hominem attacks, thats I know Im right.

UWC SG is their flagship school but no one would mistake it for the elite school in SG.

Thats you, and seriously "every" campus in SG is beautiful, landscaping means nothing about quality education or a program, its justa cheap and easy selling point to impress incoming parents.

I wouldnt say outstanding Id say competent, there are lots of competent teachers that are proficient educators but nothing special.

It is not the best paying school in SG.

[shadowjack]

Sorry PsyGuy - I'm with momentofclarity. I have had former students go to UWC in different countries - some on full scholarship and some on fee paying basis. All have related that the program is amazing, awesome, and exceptionally challenging.

The fact is that most ITs never list UWC as their dream or top school because most ITs, being from the USA, have never even HEARD of UWC, and UWC does not recruit from fairs or advertise on sites like Tieonline, CoIS, TES or Joyjobs.

SAS might be the elite American school in Singapore, but UWC is very well known in Singapore and I have had multiple students from different schools whose families have relocated to Singapore and they have attended UWC.

'nuff said.

Shad

[Donald]

A friend just sent me to this site to read what was being written about the UWC movement. To be honest, I'm amazed at the level of ignorance. The idea that these are so-called Tier 2 schools is absurd, as is the idea that UWC Singapore is somehow the flagship. The first UWC was Atlantic College, which began in the 1960s and was inspired by the work of Kurt Hahn. Key principles are "education without borders" so internationalism is at the heart of the movement and "education as a means to help others". Lester Pearson College on Vancouver Island was the second of these and others have followed over the years. The initial idea was the colleges would just take students for the last two years before university and all students would live on site. Most still follow this precept but the schools in Singapore and Swaziland are K-12. To get in to a college is really difficult, and students apply from all over the world. Their IB results are phenomenal - off the charts. It's just as difficult for teachers to get positions there as it is for kids.
Terms like "chain provider" or "essentially private schools for locals" or "mostly lower tier schools" are just plain daft. The person who made these statements really doesn't know about international education.

[lookingforlefty]

Psyguy, I have more respect for you than most on this board because I prefer your realistic candour over a lot of the silly things that are said on here, even if you can't spell or keep your personal story straight.

But you really lost me with your portrayal of UWCSEA as some sort of second-tier school. In many ways it is a benchmark for the other IB and British schools in the region. It can afford to be more selective than other large Asian schools because it gets its intake both from the UWC national committee system and its own very strong position in the Singapore market. If anything, SAS should have a wider range of talent among its students because of its uniquely American identity. In my mind neither SAS nor UWCSEA has more prestige than the other. FWIW, I am a single IB teacher at what one might consider a low first tier/high second tier school in Europe and UWCSEA wouldn't even sniff my application.

There are a lot of ways to judge schools. If you want to sort by salary, then Tanglin is the "best school in SG," case closed.

[eion_padraig]

UWCSEA (Singapore) is really an outlier of the UWC schools. Universities LOVE to recruit from UWC schools. Their graduates vary in ability level, but the students I met while doing university recruiting were always very interesting though admittedly some didn't always have the ability to succeed at the universities where I had recruited.. Their graduates also get access to the Davis scholarship, which can make a difference for the low income students who attend the schools on scholarship.

Working at a UWC school would be a dream job for me. The issue is they are generally small as they usually just run the IB Diploma program, so they're not employing huge numbers of FTs often. I know folks who work at different UWC campuses and they love it.

[PsyGuy]

@ eion_padraig

UWC is VERY much an outlier, in most statistical scatter plots youd think it was artifact.

@shadowjack

Not the first time weve disagreed. Amazing, awesome and challenging compared to what, their local school? Thats not a credible comparison.

Most ITs are not from the US its closer to a 40/40 split between US and UK (plus the crown dependencies and territories). With another 20% European and others. None of that would have any bearing on a school (NOT UWC) making a dream list.

CNIS is also well known in SG, thats not a good thing.

@Donald

Im amazed that I cant literally smell your an admin or admin cheerleader. Thanks for joining the day of your defense post.

Its not absurd, its how metrics work, admins and admin cheerleaders employ loser metrics then teachers and non admin educators. There is nothing wrong with tier two, stop being an admin in thinking its tier one or bust.

Thank you for the history lesson, Internationalism is part of MANY, MANY ISs, they say so in their mission, vision, and philosophy statements. Water is also wet.

@lookingforlefty

Tanglin is the benchmark for British education in SG, not UWC.

The model of the tier system you have adapted is the administrator paradigm. We first need to explore the four models of the tier system (which are the parent, owner, admin, and educator). Starting with the easiest is the parent model:

The Parent model, or "Prestige" model is a two tier system that can be described as the "wanted school" (upper tier) and the "waiting school". Parents have a school they want to get into (the wanted school), but for various reasons (no places, not enough pull, wrong organization sponsor, etc) can not get a place, so they then move to their next school down the continuum, until they secure a place for their child/children, this school is the "waiting school", they are waiting until the scenario changes and they either get their top wanted school or they move up the chain to a better school. This system is almost entirely based on the reputation/recognition/popularity/affiliation of the school. Westerners are going to aim for the appropriate embassy school, and then having to invest more and more research will identify additional schools as the need arises.

The Ownership, or "Point" model is based on determining standing and tier level based on a single "point" criterion, usually either compensation (they can buy their way into upper tiers, if they pay enough) or curriculum (were tier 1 is we have IB, etc). This allows school ownership to focus their resources on bettering a single criterion, allowing them to maximize their potential to whatever point they can afford. A lot of the "upper tier" schools in the ME employ this metric. This is often a result of ownership understanding business more than they understand education, but frustrated educators of all types when faced with numerous descriptors, many of which are simply unknown, can and do resort to this tier ranking metric to reduce frustration.

The Admin model or "Divisional" model (Ive also had is described at the Equality Continuum and Linear Equality models) divides the continuum of schools into equal divisions along a continuum. Rank order all the schools and institutions and if you want 3 tiers divide them into the bottom third, the middle third, and the upper third (if you want 4 tiers divide into quarters, and so on). There are two issues with this model. First, what admins love is that because the lower tier schools are so numerous, that any respectable "REAL" IS gets pushed into the first tier. Second, it artificially skews the top and the bottom, while compressing the middle.

The Educator, or "Curve" model (because it approximates the normal curve). takes those same schools on a normal curve and putts the upper 1stSD, lower 2ndSD and lower 3rdSD (Standard deviation, under the curve int his case) and classifies those as the 3rd tier, thats a lot of schools. It then places the upper 80-85 percentile too 95-98 percentile in the 2nd tier. With the remaining upper 5-2 percentile as the 1st tier (the elite school/s are a sup population of the first tier, and is just at or under the 100th percentile). What this means is that schools must truly demonstrate exceptional characteristics befitting the title of "International School", not simply a local, or municipal schools that are characterized as average or slightingly better than average compared to the surrounding market. True International Schools are not just private/independent schools with "international" in their name. We as a profession can, should and must set our expectations and criteria much higher. Getting into the "International School" group should be more than just a foreign school that pays its salary on time. We should be considering ISs to be the top 20%-15% and dump the rest in the third tier where they belong. There is NOTHING wrong with being a second tier school, and I reject the admin/ownership mantra that its either 1st tier or nothing.

Admins hate this model, or as they call it the "depressing, why bother trying model", because the elite schools like palaces of kingdoms of old are very well established and unless your in a region (such as Japan) you often dont have room for more than one palace, and its not likely going anywhere. Meaning that a school and ownership has to do a massive amount of work, and expend tremendous resources to compete with other ISs to get into that very small percentage (top 5% at best) to be considered 1st tier, because the range doesnt change, you have to beat another school out such that their ranking falls so your schools ranking can gain. This leaves the practical outcome that most new schools or re branded schools will expend considerable effort and resources just to get into tier 2, and thats how it should be, because competition is good for the market and the consumer. This isnt some warm fuzzy, and cuddly everyone can get an "A", no this is more like medical school or low school where no matter what you do or how well you do it, there is a forced ordinal ranking from bottom to top. An admin can think their performing at the 90 percentile but if everyone else is at 92% or higher, your still in the bottom, and the bottom is the third tier.
ISs should be like the Olympics, gold, silver, and bronze medals aside, to call yourself an "International School" is the same as being able to call yourself an "Olympic Athlete" in so much as it is a tremendous achievement and accomplishment just to get in to the arena.

[zanyplum]

I know two people who were flown out to interview at UWCSEA. They didn't make the cut. They ended up being hired at SAS instead.

[tck4life]

One can not compare the UWC admissions process to any other international schools. No UWC admits its own students except Singapore, and now Maastricht—because they are K-12.There are 187 National Committees around the world. Each committee raises its own funding in order to provide scholarships to its students. Some countries are only able to send one student to one of the colleges each year. The US selection committee receives approx. 500-800 applications per year. The extensive process includes an application process, personal essay, test scores, skype interviews and a final round of interviews where students are flown in to meet with the national committee. Only 50 students are selected to be a prestigious US Davis Scholar and of those, 25 remain at the Armand Hammer school in NM and the rest are sent overseas to the other schools. Only 25 % of the host population selected remains at each school. Hong Kong exceeds that number at 30% due to a govt. mandate.

The idea is that students are representing their nations around the world and there are not a lot of TCKs since students have to go through their national committees to be accepted and most expat families are posted overseas already. A candidate would have to return to their passport country to interview with the National Committee. Students with dual passports have been know to apply to represent both countries. Recently, some of the schools have begun to explore accepting fee paying students, but the majority of schools work on a scholarship basis. Consequently, students come from diverse socio/economic backgrounds. Students from small villages, refugee camps and conflict regions can receive a full scholarship based on merit. Since parents can not buy their way in to the process, many middle class students with public school backgrounds end up receiving the benefit of this private school education for free. The scholarships are worth over 80,000 dollars per student and money may follow them to college as well.

85 + nationalities are represented at each school. Approximately 200 students live in the dorms together and they have an intense 2 year experiential DP experience. On top of the strenuous academics, they do service, and each school has a particular emphasis: College of the Atlantic (Ocean rescue) Pearson(marine biology & stewards of Race Rock island) UWCUSA (Wilderness rescue and Conflict Resolution) Norway (Red Cross and Refugees) etc..This is one of the reasons the schools are off the beaten track. The schools are often housed in famous old castles and historic buildings. Though Kurt Hahn of Outward Bound was the force behind the first school, patrons have included Nelson Mandela, Queen Noor and Prince Charles who came together to support the early schools. Because the schools are limited to a 2 year cycle, servicing 80 students per grade, there are not a lot of jobs available. Teachers do not tend to leave their positions and alumni often return to teach in the UWC movement. It is an extended community that stretches across the world. Many of those still teaching at different UWCs were instrumental in writing much of the IB curriculum and have trained teachers for decades.

Students graduate with IB scores that average 34/35 with many closer to 40, and move on together into colleges. There are US and Canadian Universities that have large populations of UWC graduates from around the globe continuing their educations together. It is about more than the IB scores, for them it is about the ideals that brought them together. I am not in administration--though it is wonderful place to be in leadership (teachers/admin are on first name basis with the kids and there is a informality due to much of the decision-making being in the students' hands) I have been involved with almost all of the schools over the years and have watched each new school formed create its own identity. Though they are run by separate and distinct Boards, they all share a mission statement. It is a transformational opportunity for those students who have gone outside of the box and sought a unique educational opportunity. Parents seldom contact the national committees first. Initial interest is generated by the students, which may explain their lifelong passion for the movement.

[Donald]

Dear Psyguy,
I note the points below:
"@Donald

Im amazed that I cant literally smell your an admin or admin cheerleader. Thanks for joining the day of your defense post.

Its not absurd, its how metrics work, admins and admin cheerleaders employ loser metrics then teachers and non admin educators. There is nothing wrong with tier two, stop being an admin in thinking its tier one or bust.

Thank you for the history lesson, Internationalism is part of MANY, MANY ISs, they say so in their mission, vision, and philosophy statements. Water is also wet."

The first point is scarcely literate, but I think you are attacking me because I dared to disagree with what you wrote. Earlier in the thread, you claimed that ad hominem attacks are the hallmark of a defeated argument. You make an assumption about my career and/or sympathies without any reason or evidence. As it happens, I am neither an "admin" nor an "admin cheerleader".
The second point you make is nonsensical (as well as illiterate). "Loser metrics" and "tier one or bust" are ridiculous ways to contest my point that UWC schools are most definitely not Tier 2 schools.
Your third point is just as fatuous. International schools are largely the product of an "international" population in a "foreign" city. They serve a market. In their mission statements, they make a virtue of a necessity by talking about international education. UWCs are completely different. Internationalism is their purpose. That's one of the reasons why they set up in "interesting" locations: South Wales; Vancouver Island; Montezuma; Costa Rica etc etc. That's why they recruit an international student body and an international faculty.

When intelligent people make a mistake, they acknowledge it, apologise and move on. When stupid people make a mistake, they bluster, dissemble and obfuscate. You end your response with four paragraphs of nonsense about the "models of the tier system". All of this is sheer invention and is a feeble attempt to deflect readers' attention from the case in point: that you made a really foolish statement about United World Colleges. Several people have called you on it. Hundreds more would do so they read what you wrote. Accept it and say you're sorry.