Problems with reviews
Problems with reviews
As I search for a quality international school and find myself relying on the opinions of others, I wonder..... Why does it seem that 90% of the reviews posted are negative. Is this the general quality of international schools out there or is it just that frustrated, unhappy people are more driven to write reviews than those who have had a great experience? Seriously, after reading through the reviews on this site, I am discouraged.
I was having the same thought the other day. I am beginning to find the site less and less relevant not only because of all the negativity, but also because of the wildly conflicting views, the claims by some that reviews are being written by administration and the outdated reviews. For example, my school has had 2 different directors since it's review was last written.
While truthful reporting and reviewing is important it often appears to me that people have an axe to grind with someone or something and that colors the review significantly.
While truthful reporting and reviewing is important it often appears to me that people have an axe to grind with someone or something and that colors the review significantly.
I agree with the previous posters. Just look at the contract survey results. Almost half of the people are unhappy with their contracts. There are so many jobs out there to decide from I can't imagine why someone would pick a "bad contract" Also do people read their contract before signing it? It's almost like the idea of the reviews is that someone owes these people a lot, e.g. lots of money, a low teaching load, no stress whatsoever. The site has become one that is made up of complainers. There are some exceptions, but what are they? How do you separate them from the complainers? I agree the relevance of this site is almost down to zero. The only reason it is not is maybe, just maybe for some schools you can see a pattern, but even then who wrote the reviews? How many different people wrote the reviews as opposed to one person writing multiple reviews? I also think I'm going to scream if I see that another school is a "for profit" school without showing how that is being abused. A nonprofit school can have very bad finances, it can have very buildings in a state of disrepair and no supplies, and it can pay outrageous amounts of money to those running it. A non profit just means they have to reinvest the profits, it has nothing whatsoever to do with how much people are paid (or not paid) or how they treat people. Sorry for the long response but I really feel bad for these "negative" people as their life must revolve around finding bad things instead of enjoying what they have. International teaching is more than awesome and I highly recommend doing/trying it!
Re: Problems with reviews
[quote="Taurus"]....is it just that frustrated, unhappy people are more driven to write reviews than those who have had a great experience? [/quote]
I have found that this observation is true no matter what product you are talking about. You can go to any forum, Honda cars, Apple computers or whatever. People who are motivated to take the time to post comments are 'usually' doing so because they feel a need to. People who have had a negative reaction are more apt to take the time to write something, IMHO.
I do agree that the reviews are almost always negative. I also believe that this is because of the quality of schools that get reviewed. There are schools that are never mentioned, or reviewed briefly, that are fantastic.
In SE Asia alone there are at least seven 'major' or long standing schools: ISKL, ISB, TAS, SAS, HKIS, JIS and ISM. Of these schools here are the reviews they get:
ISKL- none
ISB- 2 reviews; 1 good 1 bad
TAS- 3 reviews; middle of the road for each
SAS- 3 reviews; all good
HKIS- 4 reviews; 1 good 3 bad
JIS- 4 good
ISM- 2 good
You'd think that these large schools would generate more reviews than 16. Some school in the Middle East are approaching 20. These Asian school are large schools that have thousands of teachers. Do the reviews mentioned above accurately depict life at each school? I'm sure there are teachers who have had a bad experience at JIS. However I also think that the reviews above are of value.
I'd accept at job at ISB, SAS, JIS or ISKL in a second. Unfortunately the lack of reviews is not necessarily a sign that a school is not worth considering. You just need to get more information.
I also agree that this forum sometime seems to be 'Bitch Central' for disgruntled teachers. You have to look for patterns of information about a school- kind of read between the lines.
I have found that this observation is true no matter what product you are talking about. You can go to any forum, Honda cars, Apple computers or whatever. People who are motivated to take the time to post comments are 'usually' doing so because they feel a need to. People who have had a negative reaction are more apt to take the time to write something, IMHO.
I do agree that the reviews are almost always negative. I also believe that this is because of the quality of schools that get reviewed. There are schools that are never mentioned, or reviewed briefly, that are fantastic.
In SE Asia alone there are at least seven 'major' or long standing schools: ISKL, ISB, TAS, SAS, HKIS, JIS and ISM. Of these schools here are the reviews they get:
ISKL- none
ISB- 2 reviews; 1 good 1 bad
TAS- 3 reviews; middle of the road for each
SAS- 3 reviews; all good
HKIS- 4 reviews; 1 good 3 bad
JIS- 4 good
ISM- 2 good
You'd think that these large schools would generate more reviews than 16. Some school in the Middle East are approaching 20. These Asian school are large schools that have thousands of teachers. Do the reviews mentioned above accurately depict life at each school? I'm sure there are teachers who have had a bad experience at JIS. However I also think that the reviews above are of value.
I'd accept at job at ISB, SAS, JIS or ISKL in a second. Unfortunately the lack of reviews is not necessarily a sign that a school is not worth considering. You just need to get more information.
I also agree that this forum sometime seems to be 'Bitch Central' for disgruntled teachers. You have to look for patterns of information about a school- kind of read between the lines.
Last edited by JISAlum on Mon May 21, 2007 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
reviews
I agree with JIS Alum...people who are upset are more apt to write reviews. I think that you have to look at what is said and see what the pattern is. I have been suspicious at times that somewhat obscure schools have 10+reviews and wonder if they have a couple of teachers who are writing multiple reviews.
Interesting comment about the well established Asian schools...I suspect that if they don't have many negative reviews that most of the staff there are happy with the teaching environment and package. By the way, I think that SAS has three reviews...all positive. I'm a little surprised that ISKL has none.
Interesting comment about the well established Asian schools...I suspect that if they don't have many negative reviews that most of the staff there are happy with the teaching environment and package. By the way, I think that SAS has three reviews...all positive. I'm a little surprised that ISKL has none.
Re: reviews
[quote="guest5"]By the way, I think that SAS has three reviews...all positive. I'm a little surprised that ISKL has none.[/quote]
Thanks- I edited my original post about SAS. I'm also surprised about ISKL. I've read the other Malay school's reviews. ISKL has always been a kind of 'sleeper' IMHO. You hear stuff about SAS and JIS.
Thanks- I edited my original post about SAS. I'm also surprised about ISKL. I've read the other Malay school's reviews. ISKL has always been a kind of 'sleeper' IMHO. You hear stuff about SAS and JIS.
catch 22
Still - if all those who take the forum somewhat seriously and try to offer others well balanced advice drop out because of others who complain too much, who will be left? A site of complainers? hmmmm
This site offers a wonderful opportunity for COMMUNICATION. It is up to the users to define the nature of that communication. Offer some balanced reviews on schools where you've taught; respond to novices both in the forum and at their emails - any help we can give each other, right?
It's pretty obvious to teachers who've been overseas awhile that certain schools stand out at exemplary and aren't talked about much here - that's a shame - more positive statements should be offered. At the same time, schools that once enjoyed stellar reputations might be only a terrorist action or two away from becoming something quite different - then a site like this offers far more valuable information than reputation. For example, how many teachers and even administrators have fled some Saudi schools in recent years - schools that had their pick of applicants a decade ago?
As long as we're speaking of over zealous complainers, there's a certain irony to complaining about the complainers..... whatever happened to live and let live?
This site offers a wonderful opportunity for COMMUNICATION. It is up to the users to define the nature of that communication. Offer some balanced reviews on schools where you've taught; respond to novices both in the forum and at their emails - any help we can give each other, right?
It's pretty obvious to teachers who've been overseas awhile that certain schools stand out at exemplary and aren't talked about much here - that's a shame - more positive statements should be offered. At the same time, schools that once enjoyed stellar reputations might be only a terrorist action or two away from becoming something quite different - then a site like this offers far more valuable information than reputation. For example, how many teachers and even administrators have fled some Saudi schools in recent years - schools that had their pick of applicants a decade ago?
As long as we're speaking of over zealous complainers, there's a certain irony to complaining about the complainers..... whatever happened to live and let live?
Re: catch 22
[quote="scribe"]As long as we're speaking of over zealous complainers, there's a certain irony to complaining about the complainers..... whatever happened to live and let live?[/quote]
I guess I don't see the complaining, the previous posts are simply stating the facts relating to ISR. Its value to teachers, especially those with no previous experience overseas, is compromised by the lack of balance in reporting. Can something be done, certainly, but until more balanced reports and more schools are represented then the site's value is reduced. Personally, I think this forum is far more valuable than the posts themselves as information seems to be more up to date and the number of teachers able to respond is greater.
I guess I don't see the complaining, the previous posts are simply stating the facts relating to ISR. Its value to teachers, especially those with no previous experience overseas, is compromised by the lack of balance in reporting. Can something be done, certainly, but until more balanced reports and more schools are represented then the site's value is reduced. Personally, I think this forum is far more valuable than the posts themselves as information seems to be more up to date and the number of teachers able to respond is greater.
Re: catch 22
[quote="scribe"]This site offers a wonderful opportunity for COMMUNICATION. It is up to the users to define the nature of that communication.
As long as we're speaking of over zealous complainers, there's a certain irony to complaining about the complainers..... whatever happened to live and let live?[/quote]
There also seems to be some irony in, on one hand saying 'live and let live', and espousing the benefits of communication, then criticizing content.
I draw a distinction between the large number of negative complaints and this discussion's observation on facts. Those facts impact to a degree the novice teacher's opinion of overseas posting. The point being made is that this forum has taken on a certain demeanor or flavor which is not necessarily indicative of the overseas teaching experience.
As long as we're speaking of over zealous complainers, there's a certain irony to complaining about the complainers..... whatever happened to live and let live?[/quote]
There also seems to be some irony in, on one hand saying 'live and let live', and espousing the benefits of communication, then criticizing content.
I draw a distinction between the large number of negative complaints and this discussion's observation on facts. Those facts impact to a degree the novice teacher's opinion of overseas posting. The point being made is that this forum has taken on a certain demeanor or flavor which is not necessarily indicative of the overseas teaching experience.
While there may be some complaining or worse on certain threads in this forum, I find the level of complaining and vicious back talk/emails to one another negligible compared with the TES Overseas forum. I hope that teachers will continue to rate and respond with both negatives and positives about the schools they work in. I also hope that administrators that have added their voice to the forum will continue to do so.
-
fran
Administrators have posted above
After reading the above comments I find it unbelievable that the very people criticizing the people who write negative reviews are themselves criticizing the venue that is making this all possible. We have so little to work with as it is.
This sense of entitlement among some international teachers is even more repulsive to me than that of the super rich kids we teach. I myself believe some of you posting above may be administrators with bad reviews that are simply trying to bring down the site. And, the very fact that some of you, posing as teachers, are saying you are suspicious of who writes reviews only points out that you agree there is much deception in the world of international teaching and the need for the ISR web site. I've been overseas for 15 years and find it a most useful tool. Of course one has to read between the lines, as you do before signing any contract.
With all your experience and professed abilities to pick a good school and contract I wish you would spend your energy sharing your "wisdom" with us instead of complaining about people you perceive to be complaining. I would find this more beneficial and more in line with what you are professing and look forward to learning from your past experiences.
This sense of entitlement among some international teachers is even more repulsive to me than that of the super rich kids we teach. I myself believe some of you posting above may be administrators with bad reviews that are simply trying to bring down the site. And, the very fact that some of you, posing as teachers, are saying you are suspicious of who writes reviews only points out that you agree there is much deception in the world of international teaching and the need for the ISR web site. I've been overseas for 15 years and find it a most useful tool. Of course one has to read between the lines, as you do before signing any contract.
With all your experience and professed abilities to pick a good school and contract I wish you would spend your energy sharing your "wisdom" with us instead of complaining about people you perceive to be complaining. I would find this more beneficial and more in line with what you are professing and look forward to learning from your past experiences.
Re: Administrators have posted above
[quote="fran"]With all your experience and professed abilities to pick a good school and contract I wish you would spend your energy sharing your "wisdom" with us instead of complaining about people you perceive to be complaining. I would find this more beneficial and more in line with what you are professing and look forward to learning from your past experiences.[/quote]
The overall message of this thread is an observation of the preponderance of negative reviews of ISR. Take the last 20 reviews and a majority of schools listed have substantial negative comments. To someone reading the site, an impression could be formed that overseas teaching is to be avoided. The posts in this thread are an attempt to refute that impressions, stating that there are many positive and fantastic places to teach. Many of these school are infrequently mentioned, or not at all (read the previous posts).
No one is criticizing the venue. We are making an observation. Add your bit to the discussion, give us your 'wisdom' as you so blithely put it but your sarcastic comments and personal attacks are both unprofessional and unproductive.
The overall message of this thread is an observation of the preponderance of negative reviews of ISR. Take the last 20 reviews and a majority of schools listed have substantial negative comments. To someone reading the site, an impression could be formed that overseas teaching is to be avoided. The posts in this thread are an attempt to refute that impressions, stating that there are many positive and fantastic places to teach. Many of these school are infrequently mentioned, or not at all (read the previous posts).
No one is criticizing the venue. We are making an observation. Add your bit to the discussion, give us your 'wisdom' as you so blithely put it but your sarcastic comments and personal attacks are both unprofessional and unproductive.
"Sense of entitlement"! Where does that comment come from? I hesitate to comment for fear of unleashing yet another unwarranted diatribe but of course I must restate the theme of this thread-the most common reviews being posted on ISR are negative and they don't do justice to the world of international teaching. Do these negative reports have value, well of course they do but only when taken with a grain of salt and much more research.
I think the point is that if you are new to international teaching and you read the reviews on this site then you might consider yourself crazy for going overseas. Now those of us with experience know better and we can sift through the bad news to find the schools that are gems, many for reasons other than contract perks.
I think the point is that if you are new to international teaching and you read the reviews on this site then you might consider yourself crazy for going overseas. Now those of us with experience know better and we can sift through the bad news to find the schools that are gems, many for reasons other than contract perks.
-
TexianTravel
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:35 pm
- Location: Egypt
A Bunch of Complainers
I have some questions for those who are complaining about the negativity of this site. Do you call the manager over and tell him what great service you got? Every time you get it? Or do you accept good service as your due? Do you write the company about their product doing exactly what it claims? Or do accept that it SHOULD do what it claims to do?
My point, obviously, is that it is the nature of people to accept good experiences as what they deserve, and to complain about the bad ones. I agree that some of the complaints are over the top. I agree that the constant stream of negativity is wearing. I can even see where they hamper the effectiveness of the site.
But maybe those of you who are saying things like most of those schools are in the Middle East where no reasonable person would go anyway have never been at a truly horrible school. (Let's bypass all that statement implies about the type of education children in the Middle East merit.) I read the complaints about my school, which was in the Middle East, and I decided to go anyway. One, because many of the writers said the problems would be fixed by the new building (they weren't, but that's another post). Two, one claim just seemed too over the top. A school that would do that was just...evil.
I discovered, to my sorrow, that the school was evil, and they treated both me and my husband with a degree of unprofessionalism and disrespect that would be hard to credit if it didn't happen to you.
So maybe you are right. We shouldn't complain because it doesn't work anyway. After all, I decided to go because I just didn't believe someone could have been treated so badly. After breaking my contract, I related my experiences in person to two teachers who are going to the school next year, and they are still going. I think it is in part because those who are good just can't believe that evil exists. We tell ourselves that somehow, someway, the people it happens to bring it on themselves. After all, if they didn't, it could happen to us.
It can. Bad things do happen to good people, and not just because they didn't do their homework or take sufficient care or have enough foresight or...whatever. The fact that we can't prevent it doesn't mean we should accept it. We must rage against it. We must do whatever we can to say "this is not right". No matter how futile it may be, we must tell others our experiences.
If you want balance then those of you with positive experiences, start posting! Let us know where those good schools are. If the negativity is impacting the site it is up to those with positive experiences to post them. I understand that some people overreact. I understand that some people have unrealistic expectations and I understand there are others who are simply never going to be happy.
But there are those of us with legitimate complaints. Those of us whose contracts have been changed mid-year. Those of us whose job performance was sabotaged. Those of us who were manipulated into leaving only to be threatened with both civil and criminal charges when we did.
I knew from the previous reviews that Narmer American College was not the best place to work so I was ready for some rough spots. I was not prepared for the degree of politics, power plays, sabotage, and just...evil...I experienced. I truly had never seen anything like it, and I hope I never do again. Can you experience the same thing anywhere? Sure. The two teachers I warned are leaving a public school district very similar (they say) to Narmer, so for them it's business as usual but with the Pyramids. I'm waiting to see what they say when they actually get there.
But the point of this rant is, if you want something to be different, MAKE IT DIFFERENT! But don't blame those of us who tell the truth about our reality just because you don't share it.
My point, obviously, is that it is the nature of people to accept good experiences as what they deserve, and to complain about the bad ones. I agree that some of the complaints are over the top. I agree that the constant stream of negativity is wearing. I can even see where they hamper the effectiveness of the site.
But maybe those of you who are saying things like most of those schools are in the Middle East where no reasonable person would go anyway have never been at a truly horrible school. (Let's bypass all that statement implies about the type of education children in the Middle East merit.) I read the complaints about my school, which was in the Middle East, and I decided to go anyway. One, because many of the writers said the problems would be fixed by the new building (they weren't, but that's another post). Two, one claim just seemed too over the top. A school that would do that was just...evil.
I discovered, to my sorrow, that the school was evil, and they treated both me and my husband with a degree of unprofessionalism and disrespect that would be hard to credit if it didn't happen to you.
So maybe you are right. We shouldn't complain because it doesn't work anyway. After all, I decided to go because I just didn't believe someone could have been treated so badly. After breaking my contract, I related my experiences in person to two teachers who are going to the school next year, and they are still going. I think it is in part because those who are good just can't believe that evil exists. We tell ourselves that somehow, someway, the people it happens to bring it on themselves. After all, if they didn't, it could happen to us.
It can. Bad things do happen to good people, and not just because they didn't do their homework or take sufficient care or have enough foresight or...whatever. The fact that we can't prevent it doesn't mean we should accept it. We must rage against it. We must do whatever we can to say "this is not right". No matter how futile it may be, we must tell others our experiences.
If you want balance then those of you with positive experiences, start posting! Let us know where those good schools are. If the negativity is impacting the site it is up to those with positive experiences to post them. I understand that some people overreact. I understand that some people have unrealistic expectations and I understand there are others who are simply never going to be happy.
But there are those of us with legitimate complaints. Those of us whose contracts have been changed mid-year. Those of us whose job performance was sabotaged. Those of us who were manipulated into leaving only to be threatened with both civil and criminal charges when we did.
I knew from the previous reviews that Narmer American College was not the best place to work so I was ready for some rough spots. I was not prepared for the degree of politics, power plays, sabotage, and just...evil...I experienced. I truly had never seen anything like it, and I hope I never do again. Can you experience the same thing anywhere? Sure. The two teachers I warned are leaving a public school district very similar (they say) to Narmer, so for them it's business as usual but with the Pyramids. I'm waiting to see what they say when they actually get there.
But the point of this rant is, if you want something to be different, MAKE IT DIFFERENT! But don't blame those of us who tell the truth about our reality just because you don't share it.