Reading the posts has been very helpful as I prepare for my first foray into IT at the SEARCH Cambridge fair in January. I have questions that I am hoping the experienced forum users can shed some light/advice on:
1. Can someone explain the tiers I keep reading about and what that is going to mean for a first timer?
2. I have certs and Masters in Elementary, Reading, and Admin., but the majority of my 18 years of experience is in secondary literacy/reading and as Literacy/Instructional Coach. Advice for how to "sell" myself to the schools posting primarily for elementary positions?
3. I have been contacting schools through the SEARCH "email this school" feature. Yet, I read on the forum that someone suggested not depending on that and contacting the school directly on their website and to follow their directions..... advice???
4. Once a person is offered a position is there such as thing as negotiating a salary, or anything else being offered in the package? Many of the reviews I read about Shanghai Singapore (really terrible reviews BTW) emphasis negotiation..... I didn't think that was an option.
Thanks so much.... all experienced ideas/suggestions/advice is greatly appreciated
Tier levels.... explanation for newbie please
The poster who everyone loves to hate, Psyguy, has his definition of Tiers somewhere here in the forum. I know I've seen it recently so its not too far down in the list of discussions.
Personally, I believe everyone has their own "Tiering" system because we all have different priorities, and I would say that as your career progresses your priorities, and thus your tiers, will change as well. I'm not saying his characterizations aren't correct but its not like the schools are advertising themselves as Tier 1 or 4 or that SA or ISS are classifying them at the job fairs or on their websites as Tier 1-4's. A little investigation will turn up the information that you need to make your decision and to find the best school for you, regardless of some "Tier" ranking.
Personally, I believe everyone has their own "Tiering" system because we all have different priorities, and I would say that as your career progresses your priorities, and thus your tiers, will change as well. I'm not saying his characterizations aren't correct but its not like the schools are advertising themselves as Tier 1 or 4 or that SA or ISS are classifying them at the job fairs or on their websites as Tier 1-4's. A little investigation will turn up the information that you need to make your decision and to find the best school for you, regardless of some "Tier" ranking.
Here's Psyguy's definition of the tier system:
-------------------------------------------------------
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
-------------------------------------------------------
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
Tier questions
Thank you so much Overhere and Meriah!
That clarifies my question about whether schools or agencies self identify as a particular tier level... so it appears that the notion of tiers is something that developed amongst the IT community to sort of put schools into some kind of a classification system for ease of understanding the whole package.....
As a first timer I guess I am still trying to imagine, and plan for, what it is going to be like at the fair going on interviews (hopefully!) and trying to assess the entirety of an offer with the pressure of a quick decision. This forum has been extremely helpful to gain a lens into that and the on the ground experiences others have had in their teaching positions.
Any insights on the other questions I asked??
That clarifies my question about whether schools or agencies self identify as a particular tier level... so it appears that the notion of tiers is something that developed amongst the IT community to sort of put schools into some kind of a classification system for ease of understanding the whole package.....
As a first timer I guess I am still trying to imagine, and plan for, what it is going to be like at the fair going on interviews (hopefully!) and trying to assess the entirety of an offer with the pressure of a quick decision. This forum has been extremely helpful to gain a lens into that and the on the ground experiences others have had in their teaching positions.
Any insights on the other questions I asked??
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Hi litgal
I have put my answers in among your questions:
2. I have certs and Masters in Elementary, Reading, and Admin., but the majority of my 18 years of experience is in secondary literacy/reading and as Literacy/Instructional Coach. Advice for how to "sell" myself to the schools posting primarily for elementary positions?
literacy and reading are literacy and reading - highlight your experience working with lower level readers. Remember - while it is age, it is all about increasing reading scores and ability from a grade 2 level to a grade X level...and you have those skills, so highlight them. Use a concrete example from your work history that puts it all into perspective.
3. I have been contacting schools through the SEARCH "email this school" feature. Yet, I read on the forum that someone suggested not depending on that and contacting the school directly on their website and to follow their directions..... advice???
I tended to use the Search database to sort through jobs and locations. I then contacted schools directly - UNLESS THEY HAD A SPECIFIC APPLICATION PROTOCOL. I would also follow up, unless no follow-up was asked for. I also used TIEonline to apply for select jobs, and followed the same procedure.
4. Once a person is offered a position is there such as thing as negotiating a salary, or anything else being offered in the package? Many of the reviews I read about Shanghai Singapore (really terrible reviews BTW) emphasis negotiation..... I didn't think that was an option.
If you are going to a horrible school, you *might* be able to negotiate. A good school won't negotiate. They have a package and a scale. Everybody is on it. Once it gets known that there are "variations" in the scale, then people start bailing. It is far easier for schools to have a transparent scale and stick to it, then to negotiate with every Tom, Danielle, and Harry that comes along. Personally, I would avoid schools that aren't upfront about their pay scale.
Hope that helps!
Shad
I have put my answers in among your questions:
2. I have certs and Masters in Elementary, Reading, and Admin., but the majority of my 18 years of experience is in secondary literacy/reading and as Literacy/Instructional Coach. Advice for how to "sell" myself to the schools posting primarily for elementary positions?
literacy and reading are literacy and reading - highlight your experience working with lower level readers. Remember - while it is age, it is all about increasing reading scores and ability from a grade 2 level to a grade X level...and you have those skills, so highlight them. Use a concrete example from your work history that puts it all into perspective.
3. I have been contacting schools through the SEARCH "email this school" feature. Yet, I read on the forum that someone suggested not depending on that and contacting the school directly on their website and to follow their directions..... advice???
I tended to use the Search database to sort through jobs and locations. I then contacted schools directly - UNLESS THEY HAD A SPECIFIC APPLICATION PROTOCOL. I would also follow up, unless no follow-up was asked for. I also used TIEonline to apply for select jobs, and followed the same procedure.
4. Once a person is offered a position is there such as thing as negotiating a salary, or anything else being offered in the package? Many of the reviews I read about Shanghai Singapore (really terrible reviews BTW) emphasis negotiation..... I didn't think that was an option.
If you are going to a horrible school, you *might* be able to negotiate. A good school won't negotiate. They have a package and a scale. Everybody is on it. Once it gets known that there are "variations" in the scale, then people start bailing. It is far easier for schools to have a transparent scale and stick to it, then to negotiate with every Tom, Danielle, and Harry that comes along. Personally, I would avoid schools that aren't upfront about their pay scale.
Hope that helps!
Shad
litgal,
Without ES experience, you may find it difficult to position in an elementary school. Having said that there are more and more instructional coaching positions opening up at MS and HS level.
Contact the schools directly with a letter of intent tailored to the school. The email this school feature is not always read or well received.
The top schools do not negotiate as they have set salary scales. You may be able to negotiate with for profit schools. Obviously you should never negotiate until the school has made a firm, written offer.
Without ES experience, you may find it difficult to position in an elementary school. Having said that there are more and more instructional coaching positions opening up at MS and HS level.
Contact the schools directly with a letter of intent tailored to the school. The email this school feature is not always read or well received.
The top schools do not negotiate as they have set salary scales. You may be able to negotiate with for profit schools. Obviously you should never negotiate until the school has made a firm, written offer.