How Marketable am I/What are my chances of finding a job?

[Lastname_Z]

Hey all,

I have a few questions about the International Schools Job Market, my marketability, and what is my best bet in terms of finding employment.

I am currently finishing a Bachelor of Education in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Grades 7-12 (12-18 year olds) History and English are my subjects.

I plan on staying one more year in Toronto to attain my Masters in History.

I also plan on taking an Additional Qualification in Special Education during that time.

My only experience teaching is a year of practicum and unrelated teaching like tutoring and teaching kids how to swim.

I know not having two years experience really hurts me as a candidate, but what things can I do to work around this? Does having a Masters help?

Thanks.

[btech]

(I copied and pasted this. In addition, I don't know what score is needed to become an attractive candidate);

PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)

[Lastname_Z]

Seems fair. One question though:

Why would a couple be worth more points than a single teacher? I figure it would be harder to accommodate a couple, especially if they are a non-teaching spouse.

Let's see what works in my favour (not taking into account curriculum experience)...

Advanced Degree (Master) 1 pt
Logistical Hire (Single) 1.5 pt
Special Populations (Spec Ed) .5
Extra-Curricular (Photography Club, Swimming Team) .5

So I have 2.5 points. I'm guessing that's a bit weak? Which is to be expected I guess.

Would taking a course in my subjects with the IB organization give me curriculum experience in that area? Is it worth it?

[Snowbeavers]

[quote="Lastname_Z"]Hey all,

I have a few questions about the International Schools Job Market, my marketability, and what is my best bet in terms of finding employment.

I am currently finishing a Bachelor of Education in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Grades 7-12 (12-18 year olds) History and English are my subjects.

I plan on staying one more year in Toronto to attain my Masters in History.

I also plan on taking an Additional Qualification in Special Education during that time.

My only experience teaching is a year of practicum and unrelated teaching like tutoring and teaching kids how to swim.

I know not having two years experience really hurts me as a candidate, but what things can I do to work around this? Does having a Masters help?

Thanks.[/quote]

Masters will help but it all comes down to how well you interview as well. It's hard when you don't have any experience so your first school will most likely not be a top school and you'll have to put your time in a smaller or less reputable school. I would say demand still outweighs supply so you will get offers. After your first contract, you will have no problem finding jobs at bigger schools (provided you are a good teacher).

My first year at a job fair, I had no experience either but was fortunate to have had plenty of job offers. Nearly all were from less reputable schools in S.America and Asia.

[teacherguy]

Not having any experience will pretty much keep you from getting hired at the better schools.

I began my international teaching with a Master of Education degree, certified secondary social studies, and K-6, but no experience. (Student teaching does not count at any international school.)

I was hired to teach secondary social studies at a crap school in Egypt. But that was fine by me, it got me in the door. I moved up the ladder over the years to better schools. I took time off to get my special ed endorsement. In November I began applying for SPED jobs via ISS and TIE. I probably sent out 75 CV's for openings. I heard back from three schools, none of which were interested, they were just nice enough to tell me I wasn't qualified to teach SPED. They wanted 2 years experience in SPED, my other years of teaching social studies internationally meant nothing to them.

You'll be able to get a job teaching overseas with no experience. But it's not going to be at a good school. A master's means little with no experience. A well rounded teaching license means little with no experience. At least with the better schools.

[mbovi]

I definitely agree with TEACHERGUY : A master's will make you look attractive but having no experience will not make you as marketable as let's say someone with a B.Ed with a few years' experience and interviews well. Ultimately, someone can have a line of beautiful degrees without having the practical knowledge and this would definitely cause disaster in the classroom.
You know of the " professor who doesn't know how to teach ?" I'm sure we have had a few of those in our years of schooling where you're bored out of you mind in the lecture seat....and even more so if we think about the bad primary or highschool teachers we may have had over the years ( and THEY have years of experience ).

My advice is to skip the Master's for now. Go out into the world and get your 2 - 6 years of teaching experience. A lot can happen during that time. You have to think about the following before getting your Masters :

What if I invest some more time and money into a Master's only to find out later after 1 year of teaching that I actually don't like the profession and don't want to be in the profession much longer?

A few years of international school teaching can make you change a lot of your views, beliefs and practices in the profession.

Also I cannot stress this enough : THE POWER OF INTERVIEWING WELL.

Around 7 years ago, I was a young teacher, freshly out of college. However, I had been working in the corporate world for a major corporation for 4 years before that with an M.Sc under my belt. In fact, with my position and money that I was making at the company, people were surprised at my decision to go into teaching. I did not have any teaching experience whatsoever. I only had my B.Ed, my MSc and my ability to interview well. I got multiple offers and landed my first post at a top tier school in Tokyo. I am at my 2nd school now in Tokyo, which is considered to be the premier school in Japan. Yes, I work hard. Yes, I have good ideas. Yes, I have good skills. But the heads did not truly know this just by looking at my resume alone. I don't even think they read resumes in great detail during fairs or when they're looking! So it all comes down to the interview.

[Lastname_Z]

Seems like I'll be okay then. I have no problem getting started at lower-level schools, whether it's in South America (which is not even that bad since I have a decent knowledge of Spanish) or Asia. As long as a I can get my foot in the door and that two years experience I'm happy.

Thanks for the help guys. I guess I'll be fine to get a job as long as I sell myself well at an interview. I think I'll post a separate thread asking for help with successful interviews.

One last question... another way I thought of getting two years experience was by working on a native/Indian reserve in Northern, Ontario. Do schools look on this as a good form of experience? Has anyone tried to get experience through this route, either working on reserves in Canada or in the States?

[mbovi]

Teaching in your home country for 2 years ( esp. the Native reserves ) would look REALLY good on a resume. However, can you handle teaching 2 yeas at the Native reserves? The situation will be as dire as working in a horrible school in the Middle East.

[danny514]

I'm from Toronto too! The standard advice to teach for 2+ years in one's home country before going overseas is almost impossible in Canada. There simply isn't the need for more teachers in Toronto - enrollment is going down, schools are closing, and there is a massive backlog of Education graduates who are still waiting for their first full-time teaching position.

I got hired straight out of teacher's college to teach in a Chinese run British-curriculum school in Shanghai. It was the right decision for me, but do understand that many 3rd tier international schools are run like businesses, rather than places of education. The owners will often have no experience in education, and view Western teachers as simply overpaid foreign faces whose only purpose is to boost enrollment and profits for the school.

[PsyGuy]

::Blush::

Actually your score is lower. Its 1pt max for a logistical hire, meaning you get half a point for being single and a full point for being a teaching couple. A teacher with trailing spouse is zero and dependents are negatives, but I got chewed out for being a kid hater.
You dont get a half point for extra curriculars (XC) just because you have taught swimming. Everyone does an XC, you get the half point if a recruiter is starting a school swim team and needs a swim coach.

So you have:

Advance Degree 1pt
Logistical hire .5pt
Special Populations .25pt

So really you have a score of 1.75. First, to put the system in perspective very very very few teachers ever max out or even get close to maxing out. 1.75 is an entry level teacher score.

IB training isnt worth anything, schools want experience, and the rule is no amount of training equals any amount of experience. It wont hurt though, F2F IB training is a weekend, and a couple weeks online it costs about $600+ for a training session not counting travel expenses.

History and English arent hard to fill positions, and without experience makes you unattractive.

Heres the problem and i agree with the other posters in total. The Masters without experience isnt going to be very attractive, most ISs have a Masters after s couple years teaching. What is also true though is that getting that 2 years experience is going to be very hard in Canada, you could apply everywhere and not get hired. You need a job anywhere teaching anything so that you can build your experience, and the masters only helps if you cant get a job anywhere. You can get a masters online or by distance while getting experience, so the Masters isnt a now or never issue, what you need is being in a classroom.

A reservation school would be fine on your resume but it would be as hard as a bottom tier school in the middle east, and you dont get the benefit of IS experience, and possibly curriculum experience (IB/AP/IGCSE), unless the reservation school has one of those.

I see two paths for you:

"THE GOOD"

1) Contact Search Associates (SA) about their internship program, these are usually upper tier schools that take newbies like you and are an "in" to some of the better schools.

2) Apply to every school that has an opening in your certification areas, bilingual schools or anything. What matters is the experience and the reference.

3) Dot he MAsters, but do it while working, it will take you 2 years but your first contract is going to be two years anyway.

"THE BAD"

1) Apply locally for a teaching position and if unsuccessful and waiting do the Masters. Its one year and you get 2 years worth of points out of it. Hopefully someone hires you and in two years your marketable.

2) If you do the Masters try to get a job working at the school in something that "education" related.

"THE UGLY"

1) You could extrapolate your practicum experience into "actual" experience giving you one year of experience. Especially if your supervising teacher will write you a letter of reference. Whatever your practicum was it was a "Pre AP" course.

2) Get a book from your bookstore on the AP World History and AP American History Exams. Write a college syllabus, and "borrow" (if needed, or your just lazy) from one written by professor on the internet. Thats what being an "AP" teacher means when you get down to the technical aspects of AP training, which is all about how to write a syllabus.

3) Get the History IB course guide and read up on the IB for interviews. Since the IBO is protective about their program and philosophy, recruiters (especially ones who arent IB) tend to think those that can talk the talk can walk the walk.

4) Do the Masters, and then "say" you tutored/worked with special SPED students. Since these are small groups and private instruction you dont need to verify it. Even better is if you can get a job with the university or in your department and spin whatever your doing into a SPED angle. Even better is if you can get a "friend" to write you a letter or verify your experience. Most lower tier schools wont chase down a private reference.

OR

5) Get a job teaching ESL somewhere as there are TONS of positions and just spin the school as a subject teacher in a bilingual school/program. if you teach ESL at a college in China for instance you now taught History Test Prep for students studying abroad. If you teach ESL to kids in S. Korea, you taught literature to beginning students.

With this path your looking at small increases in the value of your resume that you can magnify during an interview. At bottom tier schools they hire fast, the idea is too have the right words a recruiter is looking for so that they want to talk to you, and make those improvements minor enough and vague enough not to be verifiable lies.

[Lastname_Z]

[quote="PsyGuy"]

So really you have a score of 1.75. First, to put the system in perspective very very very few teachers ever max out or even get close to maxing out. 1.75 is an entry level teacher score.

IB training isnt worth anything, schools want experience, and the rule is no amount of training equals any amount of experience. It wont hurt though, F2F IB training is a weekend, and a couple weeks online it costs about $600+ for a training session not counting travel expenses.

History and English arent hard to fill positions, and without experience makes you unattractive.

Heres the problem and i agree with the other posters in total. The Masters without experience isnt going to be very attractive, most ISs have a Masters after s couple years teaching. What is also true though is that getting that 2 years experience is going to be very hard in Canada, you could apply everywhere and not get hired. You need a job anywhere teaching anything so that you can build your experience, and the masters only helps if you cant get a job anywhere. You can get a masters online or by distance while getting experience, so the Masters isnt a now or never issue, what you need is being in a classroom.

A reservation school would be fine on your resume but it would be as hard as a bottom tier school in the middle east, and you dont get the benefit of IS experience, and possibly curriculum experience (IB/AP/IGCSE), unless the reservation school has one of those.

I see two paths for you:

"THE GOOD"

1) [b]Contact Search Associates (SA) about their internship program, these are usually upper tier schools that take newbies like you and are an "in" to some of the better schools.
[/b]
2) Apply to every school that has an opening in your certification areas, bilingual schools or anything. What matters is the experience and the reference.

3) [b]Dot he MAsters, but do it while working, it will take you 2 years but your first contract is going to be two years anyway.
[/b]
"THE BAD"

1) Apply locally for a teaching position and if unsuccessful and waiting do the Masters. Its one year and you get 2 years worth of points out of it. Hopefully someone hires you and in two years your marketable.

2) If you do the Masters try to get a job working at the school in something that "education" related.

"THE UGLY"

[b]1) You could extrapolate your practicum experience into "actual" experience giving you one year of experience. Especially if your supervising teacher will write you a letter of reference. Whatever your practicum was it was a "Pre AP" course.[/b]

2) Get a book from your bookstore on the AP World History and AP American History Exams. Write a college syllabus, and "borrow" (if needed, or your just lazy) from one written by professor on the internet. Thats what being an "AP" teacher means when you get down to the technical aspects of AP training, which is all about how to write a syllabus.

3) Get the History IB course guide and read up on the IB for interviews. Since the IBO is protective about their program and philosophy, recruiters (especially ones who arent IB) tend to think those that can talk the talk can walk the walk.

4) Do the Masters, and then "say" you tutored/worked with special SPED students. Since these are small groups and private instruction you dont need to verify it. Even better is if you can get a job with the university or in your department and spin whatever your doing into a SPED angle. Even better is if you can get a "friend" to write you a letter or verify your experience. Most lower tier schools wont chase down a private reference.

OR

5) Get a job teaching ESL somewhere as there are TONS of positions and just spin the school as a subject teacher in a bilingual school/program. if you teach ESL at a college in China for instance you now taught History Test Prep for students studying abroad. If you teach ESL to kids in S. Korea, you taught literature to beginning students.

With this path your looking at small increases in the value of your resume that you can magnify during an interview. At bottom tier schools they hire fast, the idea is too have the right words a recruiter is looking for so that they want to talk to you, and make those improvements minor enough and vague enough not to be verifiable lies.[/quote]

Yeah, I know the Masters is not a now or never thing but I'd rather just do my masters now and not have to deal with that when I'm older and possibly have a family. So that last idea is off the table. I also got accepted into it because of the references I have from university professors. I'll lose that if I'm off teaching for two years.

Could I not get into the internship program after I'm done my masters?

"The Bad" stuff I was thinking of doing anyway, especially #2.

#1 of "The Ugly" will be easy for me since I have already got two reference letters from two different associate teachers.

Based on what you're saying, regardless of whether or not I do my masters, it seems I'm in the same starting position: I have no teaching experience. I can afford to take a year to do my masters and still start with no teaching experience.

And I'll definitely do my reading for both IB and AP. I'm assuming that I can find those online.

[PsyGuy]

@Lastname_Z

SA defines an "intern" as someone with less then two years of professional experience. the masters has nothing to do with it, and many non career educators get certified through a masters program. Schools though with intern programs tend to go for the frsh out of college young ones, so they can "mold" them. Having a Masters may turn some schools away though. An IS internship you should under stand is a fully paid position at the school at the upper tier schools with only a loss of some of the OSH bennifits. At lower tier schools interns are cheap teachers for schools who couldnt get someone better, and they use :internship" as a way of justifying the low compensation.

You can find the AP study books the IB course guide is only available through the OCC, but if you google it and spend some time you will find it out there.

Really, maybe I didnt emphasis it enough but getting classroom experience is the single most important thing you can do, everything else is secondary.

[Lastname_Z]

[quote="PsyGuy"]@Lastname_Z

SA defines an "intern" as someone with less then two years of professional experience. the masters has nothing to do with it, and many non career educators get certified through a masters program. Schools though with intern programs tend to go for the frsh out of college young ones, so they can "mold" them. Having a Masters may turn some schools away though. An IS internship you should under stand is a fully paid position at the school at the upper tier schools with only a loss of some of the OSH bennifits. At lower tier schools interns are cheap teachers for schools who couldnt get someone better, and they use :internship" as a way of justifying the low compensation.

You can find the AP study books the IB course guide is only available through the OCC, but if you google it and spend some time you will find it out there.

Really, maybe I didnt emphasis it enough but getting classroom experience is the single most important thing you can do, everything else is secondary.[/quote]

Does being an SA Intern count towards getting your two years experience?

I understand that getting classroom experience is important, I really do, but will that one-year gap where I get my Masters really hurt my chances? It will keep them the same. I'm getting my masters for more than a career. It's also personal.

I'm really not picky in terms of what school I work for once I'm done my masters. I just know that I need to get classroom experience somehow.

[PsyGuy]

@Lastname_Z

Yes it will, its not a one year gap its trying to get a an IT job with zero experience. At least with a year of experience a recruiter knows you have done a classroom and a behavior management plan, and you will have a reference, which doesnt sound like much but is infinitely more marketable then zero experience, no reference. You cant even talk your way through an interview, because most of the questions such as "What has your role been with parents", "How have you handled a difficult problem", etc, etc, all those standard interview questions require you to draw on teaching experience, that you dont have. Whats the interviewer going to ask you, to evaluate your fit as a teacher? You cant talk about your graduate degree with those type of questions.

If you cant get the classroom experience then doing the masters is an option that doesnt waste your time, but forgoing the possibility of experience for a masters for a new teacher is handicapping yourself.

Internships are usually 1 year contracts with the option (like any contract) to renew. Do they count as "experience", sure, if you dont label them as "internship" experience.

[Lastname_Z]

[quote="PsyGuy"]@Lastname_Z

Yes it will, its not a one year gap its trying to get a an IT job with zero experience. At least with a year of experience a recruiter knows you have done a classroom and a behavior management plan, and you will have a reference, which doesnt sound like much but is infinitely more marketable then zero experience, no reference. You cant even talk your way through an interview, because most of the questions such as "What has your role been with parents", "How have you handled a difficult problem", etc, etc, all those standard interview questions require you to draw on teaching experience, that you dont have. Whats the interviewer going to ask you, to evaluate your fit as a teacher? You cant talk about your graduate degree with those type of questions.

If you cant get the classroom experience then doing the masters is an option that doesnt waste your time, but forgoing the possibility of experience for a masters for a new teacher is handicapping yourself.

Internships are usually 1 year contracts with the option (like any contract) to renew. Do they count as "experience", sure, if you dont label them as "internship" experience.[/quote]

Okay PsyGuy, thanks for the input, which is seriously making me reconsider my position on things.

One last thing though: Could I not reference my practicum experience to answer those questions about classroom management and working with parents? Also, I have references from all of my associate teachers and a principal at one of my placement schools. Do those not count?