When I interviewed, I was surprised to be offered an admin position. I am taking it but wondered if this experience will now allow me to get other admin positions or if I need to have an admin credential. Also, if I did need a credential, could I get certified in the country I am going to or does it have to be from where I live?
Thanks!
Do you have to have an admin credential to be an admin?
It absolutely depends on the school and/or country whether you need an admin credential. Some schools will not take you without, others look more on track record. Some countries want to see one for a work visa.
And it's all muddied by the fact that not all countries provide an admin credential. So if you're a citizen of 'X' that does not have such a thing, both a school and a country MAY (or may not) overlook the fact that you don't have one, while holding the line quite firmly on a citizen of the US where such things are the norm.
Certainly having an admin post on your CV makes getting the next admin post that much easier. But you'll still have to watch out about the requirements of the next school/country you apply to.
As for earning a credential wherever you're going, in most cases the chances are slim. But it could be possible.
It's always nice, and pretty much expected, to have an MEd in your pocket for admin posts. If you don't already, you could always earn one during your next post. There are options for on-line or summer courses if there aren't any local options.
And it's all muddied by the fact that not all countries provide an admin credential. So if you're a citizen of 'X' that does not have such a thing, both a school and a country MAY (or may not) overlook the fact that you don't have one, while holding the line quite firmly on a citizen of the US where such things are the norm.
Certainly having an admin post on your CV makes getting the next admin post that much easier. But you'll still have to watch out about the requirements of the next school/country you apply to.
As for earning a credential wherever you're going, in most cases the chances are slim. But it could be possible.
It's always nice, and pretty much expected, to have an MEd in your pocket for admin posts. If you don't already, you could always earn one during your next post. There are options for on-line or summer courses if there aren't any local options.
Reply
I disagree with a number of Sids points. First, a number of countries dont have a formal professional administrative qualification, but it doesnt mean that administrators are regulated and arent regulated differently then teachers. In such regions typically a Bachelors (cycle 1) credential is the working educator credential with an emphasis on education related majors. For administrators an advance degree at Masters (cycle 2) is the working administrative credential, usually with a M.Ed in Ed. Leadership or C&I.
I STRONGLy disagree with the immigration/visa issue regarding the need for a teaching credential. You have doctorate in EDUCATIOn applying for an working in EDUCATION, immigration is going to stamp your visa and not even blink. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event someone does have an issue with it, the school will figure out an application status one way or another to bring you into the country.
When it comes to admin positions (aside from credential) the priorities of a school are:
1) Experience - How long and in what capacity. Its the single most significant contributing factor to an admins career advancement.
2) Performance/Success - How successful were you in your last admin post? By successful how well did you meet ownerships goals? What were the problems, the severity, and number of occurences, how were they resolved?
3) Skill Set - What is your area of expertise (student management, revenue generation, curriculum, etc.) and the fit of that skill set into the schools (ownerships) needs? What is your "soft" skill expertise and philosophy. Running a non profit focused on improving tertiary admittance to top schools is very different then a for-profit focused on adding to owners bank account.
having experience will make you MUCH more competitive in the future. getting the first admin assignemnt is the hardest part, afterwords its just finding schools with vacancies that match your demonstrable skill set, and expanding those skills to positions of increased responsibility. A poor admin for one school may be exactly what another school is looking for.
Having your doctorate is adequately compensating for your lack of an admin credential. This is another point i disagree with Sid about. Its not the location/country thats going to be an issue its going to be the type of schools. Specifically top tier national schools (such as THE american school) are going to have more of an issue with your lack of an admin credential, so much so as it may be a barrier in the future. The doctorate is going to be fine for the majority of tier two school at least.
You didnt say if you had a teaching qualification, which would would be problematic with WE schools in general.
ISs as independent schools usually have greater (far greater) latitude to hire who they feel is qualified outside many restrictions of government regulation. If a school wants you they can most likely hire you. I didnt get my most recent IS admin position until after getting my doctorate.
Getting certified in the country your teaching in is going to largely depend on where you are as thats usually the greatest factor in program availability. Being able to get a western credential either though online/distance learning is an option especially if you go through an admin alternative certification program. Local universities may also offer an admin credential (regional or western/international), though a significant factor will be the language of instruction of the local university program. Many only offer them in the host/regional language, since they are meant for local professionals in administrating local municipal schools.
You will very likely be at an signifigant advantage in such a program, as the university or organization is very liekly to accept all or most of your graduate (doctoral) credits, since these programs are typically offered at the Masters level. You may very likely be able to waive/exempt the more academic coursework, and only require a field experience component and a couple academic classes. More importantly you already have the admin position to serve as your field experience.
In the interim, if you dont have a lot of experience with the IBo, you may wish to consider the IB Advance Certificate in Teaching and Learning Research. IB experience and training is going to be more important to your future career advancement and growth then an admin credential.
I STRONGLy disagree with the immigration/visa issue regarding the need for a teaching credential. You have doctorate in EDUCATIOn applying for an working in EDUCATION, immigration is going to stamp your visa and not even blink. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event someone does have an issue with it, the school will figure out an application status one way or another to bring you into the country.
When it comes to admin positions (aside from credential) the priorities of a school are:
1) Experience - How long and in what capacity. Its the single most significant contributing factor to an admins career advancement.
2) Performance/Success - How successful were you in your last admin post? By successful how well did you meet ownerships goals? What were the problems, the severity, and number of occurences, how were they resolved?
3) Skill Set - What is your area of expertise (student management, revenue generation, curriculum, etc.) and the fit of that skill set into the schools (ownerships) needs? What is your "soft" skill expertise and philosophy. Running a non profit focused on improving tertiary admittance to top schools is very different then a for-profit focused on adding to owners bank account.
having experience will make you MUCH more competitive in the future. getting the first admin assignemnt is the hardest part, afterwords its just finding schools with vacancies that match your demonstrable skill set, and expanding those skills to positions of increased responsibility. A poor admin for one school may be exactly what another school is looking for.
Having your doctorate is adequately compensating for your lack of an admin credential. This is another point i disagree with Sid about. Its not the location/country thats going to be an issue its going to be the type of schools. Specifically top tier national schools (such as THE american school) are going to have more of an issue with your lack of an admin credential, so much so as it may be a barrier in the future. The doctorate is going to be fine for the majority of tier two school at least.
You didnt say if you had a teaching qualification, which would would be problematic with WE schools in general.
ISs as independent schools usually have greater (far greater) latitude to hire who they feel is qualified outside many restrictions of government regulation. If a school wants you they can most likely hire you. I didnt get my most recent IS admin position until after getting my doctorate.
Getting certified in the country your teaching in is going to largely depend on where you are as thats usually the greatest factor in program availability. Being able to get a western credential either though online/distance learning is an option especially if you go through an admin alternative certification program. Local universities may also offer an admin credential (regional or western/international), though a significant factor will be the language of instruction of the local university program. Many only offer them in the host/regional language, since they are meant for local professionals in administrating local municipal schools.
You will very likely be at an signifigant advantage in such a program, as the university or organization is very liekly to accept all or most of your graduate (doctoral) credits, since these programs are typically offered at the Masters level. You may very likely be able to waive/exempt the more academic coursework, and only require a field experience component and a couple academic classes. More importantly you already have the admin position to serve as your field experience.
In the interim, if you dont have a lot of experience with the IBo, you may wish to consider the IB Advance Certificate in Teaching and Learning Research. IB experience and training is going to be more important to your future career advancement and growth then an admin credential.
Shields down, PG, no need to fire a full array.
The OP asked about whether an admin cert is needed. He didn't say at first that he had a Doc. He didn't ask what schools criteria are, or whether countries without an admin cert have unregulated admin running amok. He just wanted to know about cert requirements.
:lol:
You've given him plenty of additional info, some of which is useful. Thank you for that.
The OP asked about whether an admin cert is needed. He didn't say at first that he had a Doc. He didn't ask what schools criteria are, or whether countries without an admin cert have unregulated admin running amok. He just wanted to know about cert requirements.
:lol:
You've given him plenty of additional info, some of which is useful. Thank you for that.
I agree with Sid. My last principal did not have a principal certification. Apparently that is not required in her home-country. The school hired her based on experience. Not sure where she got her admin start, but that was all that was needed. I would think many schools would want to see a current certification though.
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Dredge
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:25 pm
- Location: Three continents, mentally and physically
Great topic! I was recently hired for an admin position. I don't have an admin. license, but do have an MEd and a few years of management experience in the "real world" and lead/head teacher experience. As is evident by my current administrator, and the consensus among teachers, and unfortanately students at my current school, having the admin. license/degree does not mean you will be at all effective, positive, or beneficial to students or the community.
I am nervous taking the leap to the admin., but I am also looking forward to the challenge.
I am nervous taking the leap to the admin., but I am also looking forward to the challenge.
Comment
@sid
Its not even the issue of the doctorate or not. The whole issue that "immigration/labor/etc wont issue you a visa for such and such credentialing issue" is over exaggerated. If a school really wants a teacher/admin they can make it happen. It may cost time, money and require connections and finessing the system, but with the exception of age in my experience it can be done. The issue is whether a certain hire is worth it to the school. Ive gotten a teacher without a bachlors degree, in this case a chef with an associates degree in culinary arts a work visa to teach home economics. Ive gotten a design technology teacher a visa without a degree of any kind who had 20 years experience in a fabrication shop.
Its not even the issue of the doctorate or not. The whole issue that "immigration/labor/etc wont issue you a visa for such and such credentialing issue" is over exaggerated. If a school really wants a teacher/admin they can make it happen. It may cost time, money and require connections and finessing the system, but with the exception of age in my experience it can be done. The issue is whether a certain hire is worth it to the school. Ive gotten a teacher without a bachlors degree, in this case a chef with an associates degree in culinary arts a work visa to teach home economics. Ive gotten a design technology teacher a visa without a degree of any kind who had 20 years experience in a fabrication shop.
In many countries, it can be done. In others, it cannot. It's not as simple as the school really wanting it. Imagine a school in the US or UK trying to sponsor a working visa for an uncredentialled foreign teacher. It just wouldn't happen, because the government wouldn't approve it. Equally, there are other countries where the government's rules are strict and enforced. Plenty of places where they are not, but the US and UK certainly not the only countries holding the line.
But I love
The use of delusional evidence to support the claim:
"Ive gotten a teacher without a bachlors degree, in this case a chef with an associates degree in culinary arts a work visa to teach home economics. Ive gotten a design technology teacher a visa without a degree of any kind who had 20 years experience in a fabrication shop."
By his own admission, Dave has had one year as a "junior admin" (he claims in Denark, though that isn't true) before leaving to work in DODEA. So how exactly has he "gotten" anyone? The idea that any junior admin working in Europe can fix things with Immigration is even more preposterous than the usual blurtings.
"Ive gotten a teacher without a bachlors degree, in this case a chef with an associates degree in culinary arts a work visa to teach home economics. Ive gotten a design technology teacher a visa without a degree of any kind who had 20 years experience in a fabrication shop."
By his own admission, Dave has had one year as a "junior admin" (he claims in Denark, though that isn't true) before leaving to work in DODEA. So how exactly has he "gotten" anyone? The idea that any junior admin working in Europe can fix things with Immigration is even more preposterous than the usual blurtings.
Rebuttal
@sid
Its very easy to imagine, especially in the USA. Teaching credentials are regulated by states not FEDERAL immigration. In either country an independent/private school can hire a foreigner without a teaching credential (assuming the country even has a formal teaching credential) US Immigration wouldnt know what would be and what wouldnt pass be accepted as a teaching credential by an particular state, and even if they did there is nothing prohibiting a private or independent school from hiring a teacher who didnt have one.
Its very easy to imagine, especially in the USA. Teaching credentials are regulated by states not FEDERAL immigration. In either country an independent/private school can hire a foreigner without a teaching credential (assuming the country even has a formal teaching credential) US Immigration wouldnt know what would be and what wouldnt pass be accepted as a teaching credential by an particular state, and even if they did there is nothing prohibiting a private or independent school from hiring a teacher who didnt have one.