First off, I wanted to say thank you for all the valuable information and knowledge that all of you have contributed.
Know to my question... From my readings on ISR, it should be fairly easy to land a job in the ME. My wife and I are actively seeking a position in the ME and are having a hard time. Can anyone help with a contact so we can get through to someone?
My wife is a SA member and we plan on attending the SF fair this weekend. She is in her 4 year teaching French and I am I have 3 (3 and a half at end of this year) PE. I also coach soccer and this year the school's athletic director. We both have K-12 single subject clear credentials. We also have 3 little ones, age 8, 6, and 18 months.
We feel that if we do not find anything at the fair its too late! Any ideas would be great. Thanks!
Hi, I am new to ISR.
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
You could likely get a job easily in the ME, but it might not be at a school you would enjoy! LOL
Two things about the ME - often the language teachers, especially French, might be local hires, or they might be Lebanese (French is their second language and taught well), and hired as local hires or paid less because they have no western certification.
It is likely that you will be the meal ticket and your wife the bonus spouse. However, with 3 kids it might be harder as Pippa said.
I know that my school in Saudi wouldn't even look at you simply due to the 3 kids issue.
Don't get too discouraged. I would encourage you to target second tier schools and see what happens.
Good luck!
Two things about the ME - often the language teachers, especially French, might be local hires, or they might be Lebanese (French is their second language and taught well), and hired as local hires or paid less because they have no western certification.
It is likely that you will be the meal ticket and your wife the bonus spouse. However, with 3 kids it might be harder as Pippa said.
I know that my school in Saudi wouldn't even look at you simply due to the 3 kids issue.
Don't get too discouraged. I would encourage you to target second tier schools and see what happens.
Good luck!
@CoachMe
As an employee in the ME (Kuwait) for the last 5 years and jumping to Dubai next year, my opinion is that most of the top schools in the ME have already filled their docket. I agree with shadowjack that very few schools that are for profit, in Kuwait especially, offer very few packages that will accommodate a large family. The big one for us is tuition. Our school only offers 50% tuition per student. It kind of defeats the purpose of being overseas. One of the many reasons we are moving to Dubai to a non profit that has better packages for families.
Looking at the Kuwait school that are to be in San Fran....Al Bayan would be my first choice....ASK and AIS would be tied for a maybe. However, the Jordan schools are okay...except King's is a resident school and don't have a program for young kids. GEMS World in Dubai is a fancy newer school, it is for profit, but people I know that work there have like it. As for the rest in the UAE I haven't heard much. As for Qatar, the foundation schools are loaded with good salaries and shiny classrooms, but have had some criticism about being run by non educators and have cleaned house multiple times.
At any rate, all of this is my 2 cents...it is just one opinion.
Good luck. Ask lots of questions.
As an employee in the ME (Kuwait) for the last 5 years and jumping to Dubai next year, my opinion is that most of the top schools in the ME have already filled their docket. I agree with shadowjack that very few schools that are for profit, in Kuwait especially, offer very few packages that will accommodate a large family. The big one for us is tuition. Our school only offers 50% tuition per student. It kind of defeats the purpose of being overseas. One of the many reasons we are moving to Dubai to a non profit that has better packages for families.
Looking at the Kuwait school that are to be in San Fran....Al Bayan would be my first choice....ASK and AIS would be tied for a maybe. However, the Jordan schools are okay...except King's is a resident school and don't have a program for young kids. GEMS World in Dubai is a fancy newer school, it is for profit, but people I know that work there have like it. As for the rest in the UAE I haven't heard much. As for Qatar, the foundation schools are loaded with good salaries and shiny classrooms, but have had some criticism about being run by non educators and have cleaned house multiple times.
At any rate, all of this is my 2 cents...it is just one opinion.
Good luck. Ask lots of questions.
You're getting some good advice there. It's not that easy to find a post, and with your limited experience (competitors have 10, 15, 20 years experience) and large family, you aren't the most competitive. Which doesn't mean you aren't good, just that you'll have to work harder to find a job and probably take one in a lower tier school.
On a side note, the Foundation schools may have the reputation mentioned, in general, but the flagship Qatar Academy has been stable with no house cleaning in a long time. They have an excellent reputation.
On a side note, the Foundation schools may have the reputation mentioned, in general, but the flagship Qatar Academy has been stable with no house cleaning in a long time. They have an excellent reputation.
Reply
Its an issue of relativism. Unlike Pipa would have you beleive the ME is a lot easier to find a position THEN everywhere else in the IS circuit, that doesnt mean they are some podunck small town public school back in the states that would take anyone who comes walking by the door.
The ME is alwasy recruiting, and while some schools 9the better ones) can be more picky then the majority of them, were talking a couple schools compared to hundreds. The ME is ALWAYS recruiting and hiring, and the vast majority of ME schools are revolving doors. people come in get experience (mainly IB) and then move on to somewhere else thats better (which is everywhere).
A couple of discussion points.
No one wakes up any morning from a dream and says "You know I really want to go spend my life teaching in the ME', no one dreams about that. What people do dream about is making a lot of money, and so they research and decide they want to go work for Aramco. Thats not wanting to work in the ME, its wanting to make a lot of money.
No people dream about living in France, Italy, Spain, Japan, etc.
ISs are not short on ego, i have yet to meet an admin who didnt think their school regardless of its location or reputation who didnt think they were the best or in the same group as the best. Even if the school has a constant recruiting cycle (and a lot of them in the ME do), they arent going to come into an interview on their hands and knees begging you to come work for them.
Your a logistical nightmare really to hire. I can understand why you would pick the ME, they have high turnover and schools ahve large concentrations of vacancies, wwhich increase the likelihood of a french and a PE position coming up. Last year there were about a dozen language positions and only 6 or 7 of them were for french, thats not many positions, and then to have that school also have a PE position, makes for a very unlikely combination.
On top of that with 3 kids your not going to be anyones top or even middle pick for what are low demand subjects. Many schools wouldnt even touch that kind of scenario.
The fair isnt too late, about half the people get offers at fairs and the other half outside of the fairs. You are correct though that as vacancies dwindle the probability of finding vacancies for both of is reduced greatly.
I would consider separating yourselves as a teaching couple, and look for schools that have PE positions, and consider your wife as a trailing spouse. She could then potentially teach french on the side as a tutor. Its still going to be a hard sell, but considering the highly unlikely scenario of french and PE dual vacancies at any one school, its al least giving you schools to talk too. Otherwise if you go to SF looking for both in the same school, Im afraid your going to have nothing.
The ME is alwasy recruiting, and while some schools 9the better ones) can be more picky then the majority of them, were talking a couple schools compared to hundreds. The ME is ALWAYS recruiting and hiring, and the vast majority of ME schools are revolving doors. people come in get experience (mainly IB) and then move on to somewhere else thats better (which is everywhere).
A couple of discussion points.
No one wakes up any morning from a dream and says "You know I really want to go spend my life teaching in the ME', no one dreams about that. What people do dream about is making a lot of money, and so they research and decide they want to go work for Aramco. Thats not wanting to work in the ME, its wanting to make a lot of money.
No people dream about living in France, Italy, Spain, Japan, etc.
ISs are not short on ego, i have yet to meet an admin who didnt think their school regardless of its location or reputation who didnt think they were the best or in the same group as the best. Even if the school has a constant recruiting cycle (and a lot of them in the ME do), they arent going to come into an interview on their hands and knees begging you to come work for them.
Your a logistical nightmare really to hire. I can understand why you would pick the ME, they have high turnover and schools ahve large concentrations of vacancies, wwhich increase the likelihood of a french and a PE position coming up. Last year there were about a dozen language positions and only 6 or 7 of them were for french, thats not many positions, and then to have that school also have a PE position, makes for a very unlikely combination.
On top of that with 3 kids your not going to be anyones top or even middle pick for what are low demand subjects. Many schools wouldnt even touch that kind of scenario.
The fair isnt too late, about half the people get offers at fairs and the other half outside of the fairs. You are correct though that as vacancies dwindle the probability of finding vacancies for both of is reduced greatly.
I would consider separating yourselves as a teaching couple, and look for schools that have PE positions, and consider your wife as a trailing spouse. She could then potentially teach french on the side as a tutor. Its still going to be a hard sell, but considering the highly unlikely scenario of french and PE dual vacancies at any one school, its al least giving you schools to talk too. Otherwise if you go to SF looking for both in the same school, Im afraid your going to have nothing.
Thanks everyone for the feedback and support. I still do not understand the tier system that is mentioned, I would better understand school names.
I understand that we have limited experience as we are a fairly young couple. But according to what I have read on ISR we should be able to find a job in Kuwait. 3xlucky, what do you think? GEMS already told us they do not hire applicants with more then 2 dependents.
@Sid: We would love to land a job at Qatar Foundation, but we are going to one of the last fairs and most jobs have been filled. Due to our content area we are limited in open positions. I thought that my coaching and AD experience would help.
@Shadowjack: I hope that you are right about easily finding a job, we understand that we have limited experience and this will be our first international gig.
@Pippafrit: I understand what your saying. Can you provide and tips/help for interviews with ME Directors.
I understand that we have limited experience as we are a fairly young couple. But according to what I have read on ISR we should be able to find a job in Kuwait. 3xlucky, what do you think? GEMS already told us they do not hire applicants with more then 2 dependents.
@Sid: We would love to land a job at Qatar Foundation, but we are going to one of the last fairs and most jobs have been filled. Due to our content area we are limited in open positions. I thought that my coaching and AD experience would help.
@Shadowjack: I hope that you are right about easily finding a job, we understand that we have limited experience and this will be our first international gig.
@Pippafrit: I understand what your saying. Can you provide and tips/help for interviews with ME Directors.
Re: Reply
[quote="PsyGuy"]
No one wakes up any morning from a dream and says "You know I really want to go spend my life teaching in the ME', no one dreams about that.[/quote]
Actually, I did; for my last search I specifically targeted certain countries in SE Asia and the Middle East. I was looking for a culture much different that others I've experienced, with a good climate, preferably near or on a coast. I chose wisely and well. The salary is less than what I was making in my last U.S. job, so I can't say I'm here for the money. But I'm definitely living well and have a great lifestyle.
No one wakes up any morning from a dream and says "You know I really want to go spend my life teaching in the ME', no one dreams about that.[/quote]
Actually, I did; for my last search I specifically targeted certain countries in SE Asia and the Middle East. I was looking for a culture much different that others I've experienced, with a good climate, preferably near or on a coast. I chose wisely and well. The salary is less than what I was making in my last U.S. job, so I can't say I'm here for the money. But I'm definitely living well and have a great lifestyle.
Tier Primer
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
It isn't in the ME, nor is it top-tier (3rd tier probably) -- but QSI (Quality Schools International) - Kyiv has an opening for French and PE. They will hire families with more than 2 dependents and they will hire those with no prior international experiences. Kyiv is one of QSI's better schools/locations.
QSI is definitely a mixed bag and you should research other threads for information on them.
They have an application on their site qsi.org that you fill out and email to them. They will respond almost immediately. They have events outside of recruiting fairs and will hire almost immediately if you are a fit. They will also be in SF -- they'll be listed under Slovenia -- that is where their head office is located.
QSI is definitely a mixed bag and you should research other threads for information on them.
They have an application on their site qsi.org that you fill out and email to them. They will respond almost immediately. They have events outside of recruiting fairs and will hire almost immediately if you are a fit. They will also be in SF -- they'll be listed under Slovenia -- that is where their head office is located.