So if it is so easy to get hired without Search Associates, why hasn't the almighty PsyGuy taken his own medicine instead of paying Search Associates to be a member? Why would you tell 2 teachers who have never been overseas before to just wing it without the help of recruitment agencies when a so called experienced international teacher such as yourself, doesn't even do it? You're a joke and a hypocrite.
The list of the 270 schools on Search Associates is a list of reputable well-known schools. The ones that register through the database are one you include in your loosely defined definition of an "international school" which include the likes of the Victor Hugo School or the International Bilingual School of Providence that no experienced international teacher has ever heard of. There is a reason that they don't get invites to a fair.
Just Starting Out
Reply
I pay SA for a three year membership. I've had appointments in my career outside of the big agencies. When that happens I keep my registration membership open. I got my current position without search or an outside recruiting agency, I applied directly.
None of the 5 French IB schools are listed with Search at all in any capacity. They are real international, fully accredited/authorized international schools, that are not language schools.
You need to stop saying 270 reputable schools are listed with search. You can't definitively define reputable, and their are around 650 schools in Searchs database. Search doesn't make "distinctions" among its client schools. Stating that 270 of them are "reputable" implies the remaining schools are not reputable is not a classification that Search maintains or endorses. You sound extremely ignorant at best when you continue to make such claims.
The teachers that work at those schools "experienced teachers have never hear of", know about those schools. It's those teachers that conduct the classes, who do you think does the teaching? Being obscure is not a measure of quality.
Any client school may recruit from any fair, schools don't get invites in the manner that teacher candidates do. If a school doesn't attend a fair recruiting during a particular year they have to pay Search a fee.
None of the 5 French IB schools are listed with Search at all in any capacity. They are real international, fully accredited/authorized international schools, that are not language schools.
You need to stop saying 270 reputable schools are listed with search. You can't definitively define reputable, and their are around 650 schools in Searchs database. Search doesn't make "distinctions" among its client schools. Stating that 270 of them are "reputable" implies the remaining schools are not reputable is not a classification that Search maintains or endorses. You sound extremely ignorant at best when you continue to make such claims.
The teachers that work at those schools "experienced teachers have never hear of", know about those schools. It's those teachers that conduct the classes, who do you think does the teaching? Being obscure is not a measure of quality.
Any client school may recruit from any fair, schools don't get invites in the manner that teacher candidates do. If a school doesn't attend a fair recruiting during a particular year they have to pay Search a fee.
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Snowbeavers
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:56 pm
Re: Reply
Good, so we have established that you pay a membership fee to find out statistics about a school. Don't you think this data would be helpful to new teachers? Wouldn't you think it would be helpful ahead of time to find out such things as salary, housing, benefits etc? So now we know you don't actually practice what you preach.
Okay, I will stop saying 270 schools are listed with Search, 272 are listed. Why do you think the remaining 378 schools aren't listed? Why on the fair does it say the following? So any "client school can recruit at a fair", why do they need an invitation then?
[quote][quote]How to apply for a place as a Recruiter at Search Associates' Bangkok-Spring Fair:
1. Contact Michael Williams to request an invitation. MWilliams@searchassociates.com.
2. Once you receive your invitation, register your school's vacancies electronically. This will allow teachers to see that you will be interviewing at the Bangkok-Spring Fair. [/quote]
Those schools do not apply because they know that they can't compete with tier 1 and 2 schools and also because they will not receive invitations from the recruiters.
So your claim is that these schools are perfectly well known amongst...the international teachers who work at the school? LOL I assumed that much. Why don't we broaden those stats to a wider demographic.
Again, I never said those 5 schools you listed in France, weren't international in the same way I said that any language school can be "international" simply by putting that on their school logo. This doesn't suddenly make them Tier 1 or 2 schools. Like you said, there are 2000 World IB Schools out there and you wouldn't start telling new teachers with 3 kids to start applying to each of them would you?
Now I suggest you stop trolling these boards with your arrogance and condescending opinions. I'm quite sure you wouldn't be so forthcoming with your rude comments if your identity came out....[/quote]
Okay, I will stop saying 270 schools are listed with Search, 272 are listed. Why do you think the remaining 378 schools aren't listed? Why on the fair does it say the following? So any "client school can recruit at a fair", why do they need an invitation then?
[quote][quote]How to apply for a place as a Recruiter at Search Associates' Bangkok-Spring Fair:
1. Contact Michael Williams to request an invitation. MWilliams@searchassociates.com.
2. Once you receive your invitation, register your school's vacancies electronically. This will allow teachers to see that you will be interviewing at the Bangkok-Spring Fair. [/quote]
Those schools do not apply because they know that they can't compete with tier 1 and 2 schools and also because they will not receive invitations from the recruiters.
So your claim is that these schools are perfectly well known amongst...the international teachers who work at the school? LOL I assumed that much. Why don't we broaden those stats to a wider demographic.
Again, I never said those 5 schools you listed in France, weren't international in the same way I said that any language school can be "international" simply by putting that on their school logo. This doesn't suddenly make them Tier 1 or 2 schools. Like you said, there are 2000 World IB Schools out there and you wouldn't start telling new teachers with 3 kids to start applying to each of them would you?
Now I suggest you stop trolling these boards with your arrogance and condescending opinions. I'm quite sure you wouldn't be so forthcoming with your rude comments if your identity came out....[/quote]
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andyleblanc
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:04 pm
- Location: Georgia, USA
Thanks
Wow - thanks so much for all the replies....I do have a few more questions that I hope you all can help with.....
How do you know what tier a school is?
I have read that some schools (I am assuming the top tier schools) "work their teachers to death" giving almost no tim eto explore the area. Is this typical?
Should we both sign up for SA?
Obviously my wife and I are a package deal, does this hurt or help us (remember, 3 kids)?
ARe the QSI (?) school all bad, how do I know which ones these are?
Any non-popular countries in Europe you would suggest to look at?
Thanks, gotta start class but am gonna fire some more questions later if thats OK. Thanks for all the time and help so far.
Also, We are definaitely paying for SA for at least one of us and I hope to be able to talk my wife into looking at more locations other than Europe, she is just a little abrehensive at this time! You guess rock!
How do you know what tier a school is?
I have read that some schools (I am assuming the top tier schools) "work their teachers to death" giving almost no tim eto explore the area. Is this typical?
Should we both sign up for SA?
Obviously my wife and I are a package deal, does this hurt or help us (remember, 3 kids)?
ARe the QSI (?) school all bad, how do I know which ones these are?
Any non-popular countries in Europe you would suggest to look at?
Thanks, gotta start class but am gonna fire some more questions later if thats OK. Thanks for all the time and help so far.
Also, We are definaitely paying for SA for at least one of us and I hope to be able to talk my wife into looking at more locations other than Europe, she is just a little abrehensive at this time! You guess rock!
Andy
I wouldn't worry about the "Tier" designations, as they are arbitrary and not a one size fits all. One man or woman's Tier 2 might be another's tier 1, it all depends on what you prioritize.
Some schools do have expectations of their teachers that are over and above what other schools might expect, however I don't think anyone on this board can definitively tell you which schools those are. I work at a school that is supposedly a "demanding" school and it isn't once you learn to say no.
If you are both teachers I think it would be prudent to sign up, its not that expensive and it allows you to make better matches with schools.
As a QSI vet I can tell you they definitely have their issues but if they allow you to get your foot in the door then who is to complain.
I don't think there is any such thing as a Non-popular European country. There might be schools, see QSI, that aren't popular but I think Europe has been discovered.
Your wife will quickly discover there are many schools and countries outside of Europe that make excellent, safe places for families to live.
I wouldn't worry about the "Tier" designations, as they are arbitrary and not a one size fits all. One man or woman's Tier 2 might be another's tier 1, it all depends on what you prioritize.
Some schools do have expectations of their teachers that are over and above what other schools might expect, however I don't think anyone on this board can definitively tell you which schools those are. I work at a school that is supposedly a "demanding" school and it isn't once you learn to say no.
If you are both teachers I think it would be prudent to sign up, its not that expensive and it allows you to make better matches with schools.
As a QSI vet I can tell you they definitely have their issues but if they allow you to get your foot in the door then who is to complain.
I don't think there is any such thing as a Non-popular European country. There might be schools, see QSI, that aren't popular but I think Europe has been discovered.
Your wife will quickly discover there are many schools and countries outside of Europe that make excellent, safe places for families to live.
I'm going to leave behind the IB discussion. Too high level and technical for everyday use. We can pick up the debate again on the OCC someday.
Europe's been discovered, yes, but some European countries are still less popular and therefore often offer better packages. Teachers in France, Italy and Spain often get paid so little they barely break even. Some spend down their savings for the joy of living there. Whereas in other places like the Baltics, and former USSR satellites, you get the same European style city with gorgeous Old Town, cafe culture, great public transport, cosmopolitan outlook, etc, plus paid housing and a salary that allows a comfortable standard of living with some savings. A school in Vienna includes 'living in Vienna' as one of the items in their description of the salary/package benefits. And wows, Vienna is absolutely awesome, but I still need to pay my mortgage back home and fund my retirement. Tallinn may have 15 concerts per night to Vienna's 100 (just guessing), but I can only attend 1, so how many do I need?
There are schools in Europe that will pay full tuition for 3 kids. Not all, but enough. Tax depends on the country. Many have tax treaties that exempt intl teachers from tax for a certain number of years. Make sure this is clear to you before you sign a contract.
Good luck.
Europe's been discovered, yes, but some European countries are still less popular and therefore often offer better packages. Teachers in France, Italy and Spain often get paid so little they barely break even. Some spend down their savings for the joy of living there. Whereas in other places like the Baltics, and former USSR satellites, you get the same European style city with gorgeous Old Town, cafe culture, great public transport, cosmopolitan outlook, etc, plus paid housing and a salary that allows a comfortable standard of living with some savings. A school in Vienna includes 'living in Vienna' as one of the items in their description of the salary/package benefits. And wows, Vienna is absolutely awesome, but I still need to pay my mortgage back home and fund my retirement. Tallinn may have 15 concerts per night to Vienna's 100 (just guessing), but I can only attend 1, so how many do I need?
There are schools in Europe that will pay full tuition for 3 kids. Not all, but enough. Tax depends on the country. Many have tax treaties that exempt intl teachers from tax for a certain number of years. Make sure this is clear to you before you sign a contract.
Good luck.
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andyleblanc
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:04 pm
- Location: Georgia, USA
Comment
@Snowbeavers
No the data isnt really very useful, knowing what a schools BA+4 and MA+8 salary range and the other generalities of the school contracts isnt very useful. What the ACTUAL contract YOU, PERSONALLY are offered is what matters.
A schools "invitation" and a candidate invitation are not the same types of invitations. Schools show up at the last minute with a last minute invitation to a fair, as there is no real mechanism for Search to "deny" a school an invitation. Its a word that describes an organizational tool, used to manage space and media/data release. Search works for the schools, and business rarely do well when they dont comply with client requests.
Not being competitive within the pool of schools is very different from being denied an invitation. The decision of a schools marketability within the context of other schools and deciding whether or not to attend is a school decision not a SA decision. If a school wanted to waste its time and money SA wouldnt say "no you cant attend".
Yes, i would advise them to apply. Accepting an offer is another issue entirely. Applying to a school by emailing the school an application packet has a practically zero cost factor.
Understand that there are teachers that work at tier 3 schools and language schools that pay their bills and take care of their families on low salaries and local packages just fine. They may not have the bank accounts and the benefits OSH have, but they arent impoverished.
@andyleblanc
1) Ive posted my previous response regarding tiers. Despite the crazy talk that tiers dont matter, they do exist.
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
2) Top tier elite schools tend to have heavier more intensive workloads. Its not an absolute truth but within any given region the elite school have a general tendency to require more from their staff. Wheather that workload is "to death" is really dependent on the individual teacher. Some teachers like being busy, some just want to collect their pay packet.
I worked at an upper tier IS in Japan, and was exhausted at the end of the year, it was not a good fit for me.
3) If your both looking for a position SA would say you both need to sign up. However, if one of you is a much stronger front card candidate, you can usually skip registering the weaker candidate. Get a school interested enough in you and you can introduce the weaker spouse as part of a package deal. Separate registration really only becomes more important when attending an actual fair.
4) Well it helps you to be a teaching couple which lowers your travel rate (the ratio of hires to travelers). Without your wife your hire factor goes down by one and your travelers factor goes up by one (spouse moves from being a hire to a trailing spouse) that would be a REALLY high ratio, and VERY difficult for a school to get past having to fly, house, insure, etc 5 people to fill one classroom.
5) Depends what you mean by "bad"/ They are all bad to me, their organization policies are still a mess after a long time in the business and they have a faith philosophy that makes life difficult for a single guy. Aside from that their just too christian conservative.
Do they pay on time, yes, usually. With a few exception they will house a large family like yours without making an issue. Is the housing good? Sometimes. The salary is about average.
Well just about everywhere in Europe is popular, some more so then others. generally the vacation destinations in in WE rank at the top (France, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Switzerland, etc). Regions in upper northern europe tend to be less popular. EE tend to be hit an miss. Major capitol cities (which usually only have one top tier school in the whole city) tend to be hard to break into. Places like Turkey and anywhere ending in Stan are easier.
Compared to the metro USA just about everywhere else in the world is physically safer when it comes to crime and violence. What really scares your wife is the difficulty of acculturation. Europe is easier and more familiar when it comes to customs and language, which gives a higher sense of security and safety.
@sid
Too high and technical, the major contributors on this forum are very capable of understanding an IB discussion.
I would not compare eastern europe to western europe in terms of culture and lifestyle. Paris isnt comparable to Moscow, Rome maybe.
The 100 Vs 15 concerts argument is without merit either, it assumes that all concerts are the same. If you can only attend "1" of those concerts you will have a far better range of choices and options with 100 then with 15 (especially if I dont like any of those 15).
No the data isnt really very useful, knowing what a schools BA+4 and MA+8 salary range and the other generalities of the school contracts isnt very useful. What the ACTUAL contract YOU, PERSONALLY are offered is what matters.
A schools "invitation" and a candidate invitation are not the same types of invitations. Schools show up at the last minute with a last minute invitation to a fair, as there is no real mechanism for Search to "deny" a school an invitation. Its a word that describes an organizational tool, used to manage space and media/data release. Search works for the schools, and business rarely do well when they dont comply with client requests.
Not being competitive within the pool of schools is very different from being denied an invitation. The decision of a schools marketability within the context of other schools and deciding whether or not to attend is a school decision not a SA decision. If a school wanted to waste its time and money SA wouldnt say "no you cant attend".
Yes, i would advise them to apply. Accepting an offer is another issue entirely. Applying to a school by emailing the school an application packet has a practically zero cost factor.
Understand that there are teachers that work at tier 3 schools and language schools that pay their bills and take care of their families on low salaries and local packages just fine. They may not have the bank accounts and the benefits OSH have, but they arent impoverished.
@andyleblanc
1) Ive posted my previous response regarding tiers. Despite the crazy talk that tiers dont matter, they do exist.
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
2) Top tier elite schools tend to have heavier more intensive workloads. Its not an absolute truth but within any given region the elite school have a general tendency to require more from their staff. Wheather that workload is "to death" is really dependent on the individual teacher. Some teachers like being busy, some just want to collect their pay packet.
I worked at an upper tier IS in Japan, and was exhausted at the end of the year, it was not a good fit for me.
3) If your both looking for a position SA would say you both need to sign up. However, if one of you is a much stronger front card candidate, you can usually skip registering the weaker candidate. Get a school interested enough in you and you can introduce the weaker spouse as part of a package deal. Separate registration really only becomes more important when attending an actual fair.
4) Well it helps you to be a teaching couple which lowers your travel rate (the ratio of hires to travelers). Without your wife your hire factor goes down by one and your travelers factor goes up by one (spouse moves from being a hire to a trailing spouse) that would be a REALLY high ratio, and VERY difficult for a school to get past having to fly, house, insure, etc 5 people to fill one classroom.
5) Depends what you mean by "bad"/ They are all bad to me, their organization policies are still a mess after a long time in the business and they have a faith philosophy that makes life difficult for a single guy. Aside from that their just too christian conservative.
Do they pay on time, yes, usually. With a few exception they will house a large family like yours without making an issue. Is the housing good? Sometimes. The salary is about average.
Well just about everywhere in Europe is popular, some more so then others. generally the vacation destinations in in WE rank at the top (France, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Switzerland, etc). Regions in upper northern europe tend to be less popular. EE tend to be hit an miss. Major capitol cities (which usually only have one top tier school in the whole city) tend to be hard to break into. Places like Turkey and anywhere ending in Stan are easier.
Compared to the metro USA just about everywhere else in the world is physically safer when it comes to crime and violence. What really scares your wife is the difficulty of acculturation. Europe is easier and more familiar when it comes to customs and language, which gives a higher sense of security and safety.
@sid
Too high and technical, the major contributors on this forum are very capable of understanding an IB discussion.
I would not compare eastern europe to western europe in terms of culture and lifestyle. Paris isnt comparable to Moscow, Rome maybe.
The 100 Vs 15 concerts argument is without merit either, it assumes that all concerts are the same. If you can only attend "1" of those concerts you will have a far better range of choices and options with 100 then with 15 (especially if I dont like any of those 15).
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Andy, if your only desire is to teach in Europe, you are going to have some issues with whichever agency and associate you sign up with.
They want you to have at least three geographic areas you will consider for optimal placement.
You might get away with two. Work on your wife. SE Asia and certain parts of Africa are amazing...
They want you to have at least three geographic areas you will consider for optimal placement.
You might get away with two. Work on your wife. SE Asia and certain parts of Africa are amazing...
No
That's technically correct, but it's not restrictive. Yes, associates will want you to be open to more then one region, but there is nothing keeping you from SAYING "I'm interested in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East" and just using the database to Search EU schools. There is not restriction or requirement that you have to Search or explore schools outside of Te EU.
This is how I know PsyGuy to be a fraud. He said in a post on 10 Jan that he didn't use Search, or an outside agency to get his current positon, he applied directly.
Ok, DoDEA doesn't use Search, or outside agencies. You have to apply through their website.
So to say that you didn't use Search, or any outside agency, is redundant because DoDEA isn't an IS, it's a US government school system. So you're a fraud and it becomes more and more clearer with with everyone one of your posts.
Ok, DoDEA doesn't use Search, or outside agencies. You have to apply through their website.
So to say that you didn't use Search, or any outside agency, is redundant because DoDEA isn't an IS, it's a US government school system. So you're a fraud and it becomes more and more clearer with with everyone one of your posts.