@autumn
Your asking the wrong question, what you should be asking yourself, is how many potential opportunities are you willing to miss by NOT submitting an application packet to schools and their recruiters?
A lot of the process is jumping through the hoops, they don't get you much, but not jumping through those hoops identifies you as high maintenance, uninterested, or lazy. None of those are good things a candidate wants a school to think about them.
Bangkok Job Fair
[quote]When you get a second to breathe would you mind commenting on if you believe putting "candidate packages" in the recruiters folders got you some hits.
[/quote]
I put a color brochure in a school's folder and I received an invitation to interview a few hours later. So, I think it's worth it.
I think this fair is super organized. I almost missed the orientation as well. It was the typical. Be open to new experiences.
Lots of couples here. I'm a single with 2 kids and I've had 11 interview offers before the sign-up so don't give up hope. A few of them are for schools that I had at or near the top of my list. Sign-ups are in a few hours. Will post again later.
I've only heard one person mention an offer so far. People are really intense.
[/quote]
I put a color brochure in a school's folder and I received an invitation to interview a few hours later. So, I think it's worth it.
I think this fair is super organized. I almost missed the orientation as well. It was the typical. Be open to new experiences.
Lots of couples here. I'm a single with 2 kids and I've had 11 interview offers before the sign-up so don't give up hope. A few of them are for schools that I had at or near the top of my list. Sign-ups are in a few hours. Will post again later.
I've only heard one person mention an offer so far. People are really intense.
Yeah, it is intense. Lots of people here - 550 candidates. When I came to this fair three years ago there were 450 candidates. Yet the signup time has not increased which is annoying.
I'm married with a non-teaching spouse but still got 4 interview requests - two of them are from very good schools where I'd be happy to work.
I'm married with a non-teaching spouse but still got 4 interview requests - two of them are from very good schools where I'd be happy to work.
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Bangkok Fair - Day Two (the REAL Day Two!)
Whew! Thought I had lost this, after spending a LOT of time typing it up.
Here is Day Two of the Bangkok Fair
This is actually Day Two of the fair proper, but the third day we have been dealing with seeking jobs at international schools. Today is the BIG DAY - the day where you actually sit down and try to sell yourself to recruiters who have either (a) already contacted you to sign up for an interview; or (b) who you talked to during presentation times and who seemed interested; or (c) no idea who the heck you are, except you put a CV in their file folder and who may or may not be interested in you at all.
As an aside - Autumn, you asked whether we thought it was worth it to put together a package for recruiters about us and put it in their file folders. Sort of a 'cold call' so to speak. The answer is unequivocally, "YES!". Even if it opens only ONE door, it is still worth it.
In my opinion, at this point all you are trying to do is sell yourself to the recruiters as a serious candidate worthy of further consideration. You have about 30 seconds to 1 minute to do this before they need to move on to the next candidate, especially with those desirable "top target" schools. We brought 25 CVs each to use for this, and we used almost all of them.
About your CV package - my advice is to scrap the cover letter entirely. It doesn't get read and is a waste of paper. Far better is to format your CV to quickly highlight your skills, strengths, experiences and training (personal info, training, skills, strengths, experiences). At the end we put little factoids about ourselves and our lives to show us as rounded people. It helps to balance all the 'serious' stuff and show you as a whole person. That's my two cents on CV packages.
So we went down, had a nice breakfast, and we happened to run into a few recruiters whose schools we were interested in and whom we had talked to yesterday. This is where a good memory for names is essential. Guaranteed that most recruiters will remember you - IF you remember their name. In fact, if they don't, they will ask you your name again :-) This ensures they do know you at that all important sign-up meeting.
After breakfast, we went back up to our room (this is another reason why staying at the hotel is essential, in my opinion - the ability to transition quickly from hotel breakfast/contacts to your room to finalize your daily preparation to heading down to more presentations. If you don't have a room at the hotel, you really have no place to go to except the areas with all the other candidates. And that can become a not-so-nice place if you are not a really upbeat, positive person. In my opinion - GET A ROOM AT THE HOTEL!
So, at 8:00 AM, the second round of school presentations start again. Before this, we checked our mailboxes. We had four - count 'em - four - thanks, but not thanks letters. We wrote those off. Most of them we weren't a good fit anyways, but paper is cheap and we are at the fair anyways, so it costs us nothing to go to their school presentation. Last night we pre-selected our presentations beforehand, so we started right in.
Even though we had our schedule, we decided at the last minute to make some changes. We went to some out of the way presentations and some "big school" presentations. After, we made it a point to introduce ourselves and express our interest in their schools. One REALLY big school in China was very gracious and while not promising anything, (a) remembered names and said to come see them at the sign up. Another school we had not considered seriously (although we had submitted CV packages), ended up chatting with us and promised to put a slip in our box regarding interview sign up.
After a few of those, and checking our box every break (nobody loved us at this point. There was nothing in the box), it was getting time for the interview sign up, which took place in the ballroom and the foyer outside the ballroom. The admin candidates went in at 12:30. Teaching candidates started entering at 1:00. There were perhaps 100 or so admin candidates and about 450 teaching candidates.
GET IN LINE EARLY! We went to stand in line at 11:50. We were among the first six in the teacher candidate line. By 12:30 the line stretched all the way down the hall to the teachers' lounge! By 1:00 it was around the corner. If you want to strike first at those first tier schools, it is important to get in their early.
The schools in the foyer were posted, so you knew where they were (you could walk around the foyer prior to 12:00 noon, so we checked out who was outside the hall. These were smaller schools in China and elsewhere). Inside the hall, the schools were in alphabetical order, first by country, then by school name.
At 12:57 (by my watch) the teacher candidates started entering the hall. Mrs. Shadowjack went one way to arrange an interview with one of our top choices (who had sent an email asking us to sign up) and I headed to the really big school in China and told them I wanted to be their next X (insert subject here) teacher. The director was very honest with me (and they will be. They don't have time to waste at these big schools) and said that initial interview spots were for candidates they had asked to interview and that it would be tough to see me. However, he asked me to keep in touch. He was interested, but I was low subject priority. OK - at least my name and interest was known. Away I went and found Mrs. Shadowjack waiting for me as the other school wanted to see us both. Mission accomplished, interview booked. Then it was off to our third choice school. Quick conversation, interview booked (for a slightly different position than what I was REALLY interested in, but still a great school in a great place and a really interesting and solid position.
As you can see, we prioritized our interest and hit up our first choice schools immediately. Our goal was to try and BEAT all the candidates who had paper slips inviting them to interview. That way, at least we were on the dance card, so to speak. We continued around the room (and did I mention that while we were in line, the very interesting school we hadn't really considered put a slip inviting us to interview?) and ended up with eight confirmed interviews in places we would definitely consider going, doing jobs we definitely would do.
It was an exhausting hour and a half as we sold ourselves time after time to recruiters, many of whom didn't know us. We also had some rejections, pleasant as they were. Saudi Aramco only had elementary positions left in our fields. Doha hadn't really looked at our CVs, but promised to get back to us within a day. Others, the person who made recruiting interview decisions wasn't there at the moment, but would be back. However - we didn't give up, went back to those schools whose recruiters were absent and tried to use our minute to sell ourselves. Throughout all this, we strongly kept in mind that although we were professionals with skills, we could not MAKE schools like us or want to interview us. We could only try to sell ourselves. Also keep in mind that school recruiters can SMELL desperation. This is why it is important to know your skills, your strengths and weaknesses and play to the first two while staying away from the latter.
By the way, remember that school yesterday who had already put the card in our box saying thanks but no thanks? The one we went to the presentation and chatted with the recruiters afterwards? Well, we got an interview with them. This is another reason why presentation attendance is so important if you are not what I would call a "golden" candidate (married couple, one in ultra-high-needs-hard-to-fill-positions and the other with a great skill set making him or her versatile and easy to fit).
We had planned on attending yet more presentations in the afternoon (they continue after interview sign up), but found we had interviews booked during presentation times.
When you go to the interview itself, it is usually in candidates rooms. The recruiting team will be there and you and your spouse will go in. Sometimes the interview will be split and one recruiter will talk to one spouse. Other times, the recruiters will talk to both of you, as happened with Mrs. Shadowjack and myself through all our interviews today.
Also, when you go to the interview, you usually wait outside the room door. About 3 minutes before the interview, gently knock 3 or 4 times, firm, but quiet. Usually the previous candidate(s) will exit and they will take a minute or two to prepare for you and then invite you in.
The first interview was pretty open and frank. Remember, schools are going to spend a lot of money on you if they hire you, so they want to make sure you are a good fit. DO YOUR HOMEWORK ON THE SCHOOL, THE CITY, AND THE COUNTRY! Because they didn't have an exact curricular fit, I had to spend half an hour researching the appropriate curriculum and review to see if I could deliver it. DO NOT LIE ABOUT YOUR YOUR ABILITY TO TEACH A CURRICULUM. Be honest. While you might not get THAT job, the recruiter remembers things like your honesty and might have a job opening come up in your area - and believe me, he will call on the off chance you haven't been picked up by someone else. Honesty in interviews is key. This curriculum was similar to what I had taught in the past, but not exact. However, I am confident in my ability to deliver it, and we discussed this. I was honest, and he liked that.
The second interview was a real cold-call. I had no idea this particular position was open before the fair. But - nothing ventured, nothing gained! Again, I was honest about my skill set, ability set, and philosophy. It was another good interview. They told me they would get back to me tomorrow about a follow-up. If you hear this from a recruiter, it is NOT a brush off. If they liked you enough to interview you, they are NOT going to brush you off by saying they will get back to you. If they feel that you are not the candidate for the job, they will tell you that they prefer to go in another direction, and wish you good luck. If they are interviewing others, they will tell you they are interviewing others. This is what we were told, so we are hoping for a call back for a second interview.
The third interview, at a truly AMAZING school in Asia was wonderful. However, again, they are still in early stages of recruiting and we were not a perfect fit. As a married couple, sometimes this happens. Roll with it. Usually, if they still express interest, they WANT to fit you in, but haven't figured out HOW yet. Often, that falls into place as the other hires get done. So again, we are hoping for a call back.
With that done, we were free to check our file again (nobody loved us once more!) and then it was out to dinner. I feel very lucky. We have known people who have gone to the fair and had NO interviews. Going in, apart from our pre-fair interview, we had no clue how we would do. Keep in mind, if this is you, don't panic. Don't be desperate. Try to network, sell yourself, look for late openings which are posted, check out Search Associates for updates in your positions, and plan ahead to go to another fair. My friends went to Bangkok last year - great people, great teachers, no interviews. Went to another fair shortly afterwards, two interviews, followup and Skyping and got a job offer for ONE of them. They took the chance, accepted, and in late Spring were asked by the school if the spouse was interested in a newly-opened job due to a sudden resignation. In the end, it all worked out.
If it doesn't, there are always the summer fairs, which are sparsely attended and which, although the locations/schools are not always the best, will keep you teaching until you are ready to go out recruiting again.
Tomorrow stay tuned for Day Four (really day Three). I will post my observations about the fair, the mood and atmosphere, and continue our story of interviewing for positions. Tomorrow, we face four more interviews with four really interesting schools in very different locations. Again, we were 'cold calls' for these schools and we will use our half-hour interview (interviews are usually in half-hour slots) to sell ourselves.
Stay tuned and thanks for your feedback!
Here is Day Two of the Bangkok Fair
This is actually Day Two of the fair proper, but the third day we have been dealing with seeking jobs at international schools. Today is the BIG DAY - the day where you actually sit down and try to sell yourself to recruiters who have either (a) already contacted you to sign up for an interview; or (b) who you talked to during presentation times and who seemed interested; or (c) no idea who the heck you are, except you put a CV in their file folder and who may or may not be interested in you at all.
As an aside - Autumn, you asked whether we thought it was worth it to put together a package for recruiters about us and put it in their file folders. Sort of a 'cold call' so to speak. The answer is unequivocally, "YES!". Even if it opens only ONE door, it is still worth it.
In my opinion, at this point all you are trying to do is sell yourself to the recruiters as a serious candidate worthy of further consideration. You have about 30 seconds to 1 minute to do this before they need to move on to the next candidate, especially with those desirable "top target" schools. We brought 25 CVs each to use for this, and we used almost all of them.
About your CV package - my advice is to scrap the cover letter entirely. It doesn't get read and is a waste of paper. Far better is to format your CV to quickly highlight your skills, strengths, experiences and training (personal info, training, skills, strengths, experiences). At the end we put little factoids about ourselves and our lives to show us as rounded people. It helps to balance all the 'serious' stuff and show you as a whole person. That's my two cents on CV packages.
So we went down, had a nice breakfast, and we happened to run into a few recruiters whose schools we were interested in and whom we had talked to yesterday. This is where a good memory for names is essential. Guaranteed that most recruiters will remember you - IF you remember their name. In fact, if they don't, they will ask you your name again :-) This ensures they do know you at that all important sign-up meeting.
After breakfast, we went back up to our room (this is another reason why staying at the hotel is essential, in my opinion - the ability to transition quickly from hotel breakfast/contacts to your room to finalize your daily preparation to heading down to more presentations. If you don't have a room at the hotel, you really have no place to go to except the areas with all the other candidates. And that can become a not-so-nice place if you are not a really upbeat, positive person. In my opinion - GET A ROOM AT THE HOTEL!
So, at 8:00 AM, the second round of school presentations start again. Before this, we checked our mailboxes. We had four - count 'em - four - thanks, but not thanks letters. We wrote those off. Most of them we weren't a good fit anyways, but paper is cheap and we are at the fair anyways, so it costs us nothing to go to their school presentation. Last night we pre-selected our presentations beforehand, so we started right in.
Even though we had our schedule, we decided at the last minute to make some changes. We went to some out of the way presentations and some "big school" presentations. After, we made it a point to introduce ourselves and express our interest in their schools. One REALLY big school in China was very gracious and while not promising anything, (a) remembered names and said to come see them at the sign up. Another school we had not considered seriously (although we had submitted CV packages), ended up chatting with us and promised to put a slip in our box regarding interview sign up.
After a few of those, and checking our box every break (nobody loved us at this point. There was nothing in the box), it was getting time for the interview sign up, which took place in the ballroom and the foyer outside the ballroom. The admin candidates went in at 12:30. Teaching candidates started entering at 1:00. There were perhaps 100 or so admin candidates and about 450 teaching candidates.
GET IN LINE EARLY! We went to stand in line at 11:50. We were among the first six in the teacher candidate line. By 12:30 the line stretched all the way down the hall to the teachers' lounge! By 1:00 it was around the corner. If you want to strike first at those first tier schools, it is important to get in their early.
The schools in the foyer were posted, so you knew where they were (you could walk around the foyer prior to 12:00 noon, so we checked out who was outside the hall. These were smaller schools in China and elsewhere). Inside the hall, the schools were in alphabetical order, first by country, then by school name.
At 12:57 (by my watch) the teacher candidates started entering the hall. Mrs. Shadowjack went one way to arrange an interview with one of our top choices (who had sent an email asking us to sign up) and I headed to the really big school in China and told them I wanted to be their next X (insert subject here) teacher. The director was very honest with me (and they will be. They don't have time to waste at these big schools) and said that initial interview spots were for candidates they had asked to interview and that it would be tough to see me. However, he asked me to keep in touch. He was interested, but I was low subject priority. OK - at least my name and interest was known. Away I went and found Mrs. Shadowjack waiting for me as the other school wanted to see us both. Mission accomplished, interview booked. Then it was off to our third choice school. Quick conversation, interview booked (for a slightly different position than what I was REALLY interested in, but still a great school in a great place and a really interesting and solid position.
As you can see, we prioritized our interest and hit up our first choice schools immediately. Our goal was to try and BEAT all the candidates who had paper slips inviting them to interview. That way, at least we were on the dance card, so to speak. We continued around the room (and did I mention that while we were in line, the very interesting school we hadn't really considered put a slip inviting us to interview?) and ended up with eight confirmed interviews in places we would definitely consider going, doing jobs we definitely would do.
It was an exhausting hour and a half as we sold ourselves time after time to recruiters, many of whom didn't know us. We also had some rejections, pleasant as they were. Saudi Aramco only had elementary positions left in our fields. Doha hadn't really looked at our CVs, but promised to get back to us within a day. Others, the person who made recruiting interview decisions wasn't there at the moment, but would be back. However - we didn't give up, went back to those schools whose recruiters were absent and tried to use our minute to sell ourselves. Throughout all this, we strongly kept in mind that although we were professionals with skills, we could not MAKE schools like us or want to interview us. We could only try to sell ourselves. Also keep in mind that school recruiters can SMELL desperation. This is why it is important to know your skills, your strengths and weaknesses and play to the first two while staying away from the latter.
By the way, remember that school yesterday who had already put the card in our box saying thanks but no thanks? The one we went to the presentation and chatted with the recruiters afterwards? Well, we got an interview with them. This is another reason why presentation attendance is so important if you are not what I would call a "golden" candidate (married couple, one in ultra-high-needs-hard-to-fill-positions and the other with a great skill set making him or her versatile and easy to fit).
We had planned on attending yet more presentations in the afternoon (they continue after interview sign up), but found we had interviews booked during presentation times.
When you go to the interview itself, it is usually in candidates rooms. The recruiting team will be there and you and your spouse will go in. Sometimes the interview will be split and one recruiter will talk to one spouse. Other times, the recruiters will talk to both of you, as happened with Mrs. Shadowjack and myself through all our interviews today.
Also, when you go to the interview, you usually wait outside the room door. About 3 minutes before the interview, gently knock 3 or 4 times, firm, but quiet. Usually the previous candidate(s) will exit and they will take a minute or two to prepare for you and then invite you in.
The first interview was pretty open and frank. Remember, schools are going to spend a lot of money on you if they hire you, so they want to make sure you are a good fit. DO YOUR HOMEWORK ON THE SCHOOL, THE CITY, AND THE COUNTRY! Because they didn't have an exact curricular fit, I had to spend half an hour researching the appropriate curriculum and review to see if I could deliver it. DO NOT LIE ABOUT YOUR YOUR ABILITY TO TEACH A CURRICULUM. Be honest. While you might not get THAT job, the recruiter remembers things like your honesty and might have a job opening come up in your area - and believe me, he will call on the off chance you haven't been picked up by someone else. Honesty in interviews is key. This curriculum was similar to what I had taught in the past, but not exact. However, I am confident in my ability to deliver it, and we discussed this. I was honest, and he liked that.
The second interview was a real cold-call. I had no idea this particular position was open before the fair. But - nothing ventured, nothing gained! Again, I was honest about my skill set, ability set, and philosophy. It was another good interview. They told me they would get back to me tomorrow about a follow-up. If you hear this from a recruiter, it is NOT a brush off. If they liked you enough to interview you, they are NOT going to brush you off by saying they will get back to you. If they feel that you are not the candidate for the job, they will tell you that they prefer to go in another direction, and wish you good luck. If they are interviewing others, they will tell you they are interviewing others. This is what we were told, so we are hoping for a call back for a second interview.
The third interview, at a truly AMAZING school in Asia was wonderful. However, again, they are still in early stages of recruiting and we were not a perfect fit. As a married couple, sometimes this happens. Roll with it. Usually, if they still express interest, they WANT to fit you in, but haven't figured out HOW yet. Often, that falls into place as the other hires get done. So again, we are hoping for a call back.
With that done, we were free to check our file again (nobody loved us once more!) and then it was out to dinner. I feel very lucky. We have known people who have gone to the fair and had NO interviews. Going in, apart from our pre-fair interview, we had no clue how we would do. Keep in mind, if this is you, don't panic. Don't be desperate. Try to network, sell yourself, look for late openings which are posted, check out Search Associates for updates in your positions, and plan ahead to go to another fair. My friends went to Bangkok last year - great people, great teachers, no interviews. Went to another fair shortly afterwards, two interviews, followup and Skyping and got a job offer for ONE of them. They took the chance, accepted, and in late Spring were asked by the school if the spouse was interested in a newly-opened job due to a sudden resignation. In the end, it all worked out.
If it doesn't, there are always the summer fairs, which are sparsely attended and which, although the locations/schools are not always the best, will keep you teaching until you are ready to go out recruiting again.
Tomorrow stay tuned for Day Four (really day Three). I will post my observations about the fair, the mood and atmosphere, and continue our story of interviewing for positions. Tomorrow, we face four more interviews with four really interesting schools in very different locations. Again, we were 'cold calls' for these schools and we will use our half-hour interview (interviews are usually in half-hour slots) to sell ourselves.
Stay tuned and thanks for your feedback!
Another great post.
My wife and I are attending our first fair shortly (SA - London), and I'm intently reading your tips and tricks. We have never done anything like this before, and it is a bit nerve racking. Mostly, because it is sink or swim for next year (we are happy to have the experience of our current school, but we are ready to move on). We had some early bites (before the winter break), but nothing since then.
Thanks again.
My wife and I are attending our first fair shortly (SA - London), and I'm intently reading your tips and tricks. We have never done anything like this before, and it is a bit nerve racking. Mostly, because it is sink or swim for next year (we are happy to have the experience of our current school, but we are ready to move on). We had some early bites (before the winter break), but nothing since then.
Thanks again.
-
eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
-
buffalofan
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Buffalofan - we were talking with a single teacher from a small school in a small country. His director was there and had been talking him up. He went to his first choice school and was hired on the spot.
I also was in line to arrange interviews behind candidates with more than 2 kids and a trailing spouse. At that particular school, they were basically told, "Thanks, but not thanks."
Mrs. Shadowjack is a bit of a trailing spouse at the moment, but we are getting interviews. I think in the case of a trailing spouse, the teaching spouse's experience is one of the keys. The other is the relationship between the spouses. If Mrs. Shadowjack was a total trailing spouse, I would still want her included in the interviews, mainly because she is STILL part of my package and needs to have a grasp of where we are going and to WANT to go there.
I also was in line to arrange interviews behind candidates with more than 2 kids and a trailing spouse. At that particular school, they were basically told, "Thanks, but not thanks."
Mrs. Shadowjack is a bit of a trailing spouse at the moment, but we are getting interviews. I think in the case of a trailing spouse, the teaching spouse's experience is one of the keys. The other is the relationship between the spouses. If Mrs. Shadowjack was a total trailing spouse, I would still want her included in the interviews, mainly because she is STILL part of my package and needs to have a grasp of where we are going and to WANT to go there.
-
amerikumar
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:16 am