Shanghai American School
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frees1spirit
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:12 pm
Shanghai American School
Why so many vacancies?
There are that many vacancies because the package keeps going down, for example SAS offered a retirement of 10% just a few years ago, while teacher duties and responsibilities keep going up.
Combine this with a group of administrators who are less than able and/or human and as the French say, Voila!
And don't buy any of the sure to follow replies that the turnover is normal and/or due to SAS having so many teachers. THAT is pure admin BS.
Combine this with a group of administrators who are less than able and/or human and as the French say, Voila!
And don't buy any of the sure to follow replies that the turnover is normal and/or due to SAS having so many teachers. THAT is pure admin BS.
[quote="fine dude"]I have a similar question. Why so many vacancies at Bangkok Patana School? It is considered to be one of the prestigious IB schools in south-east asia.[/quote]
It is, and it still advertises many vacancies each year.
I have friends there and I know the school does work them hard, but yes I agree, you would think teachers would want to stay there once 'in'...
It is, and it still advertises many vacancies each year.
I have friends there and I know the school does work them hard, but yes I agree, you would think teachers would want to stay there once 'in'...
Sorry Senator, there are many things that I think could be changed about SAS to make it a better school but your package response is totally offbase. Teachers continue to receive the 10% retirement benefit at the end of the year and will do so for the 2013/14 school year as well. In addition, they added another step and boosted salaries approximately 2.5% for next year-which means there is more to that 10% at the end of the year.
Of course this is on top of the flights, worldwide health coverage, great housing/housing allowance, contract completion bonus etc.
As for increased responsibilities, yes they are there if you want them and I will be the first to admit that I probably take on too much but there is very little to no pressure to do more than what you signed on for.
As for administration, could they be better sure but when was the last time you worked for the perfect admin. The Puxi ES principal is leaving and has been replaced by someone with overseas experience and the vp has done a great job so far.
People may be leaving because Shanghai isn't for everyone. It is a huge city and the opportunity to get 'outside" is difficult, its getting ever more expensive, and the pollution is always an issue.
There was very little turnover last year so I would expect, and no I am not going to go calculate it, the two years would average out to whatever the magic percentile is
Of course this is on top of the flights, worldwide health coverage, great housing/housing allowance, contract completion bonus etc.
As for increased responsibilities, yes they are there if you want them and I will be the first to admit that I probably take on too much but there is very little to no pressure to do more than what you signed on for.
As for administration, could they be better sure but when was the last time you worked for the perfect admin. The Puxi ES principal is leaving and has been replaced by someone with overseas experience and the vp has done a great job so far.
People may be leaving because Shanghai isn't for everyone. It is a huge city and the opportunity to get 'outside" is difficult, its getting ever more expensive, and the pollution is always an issue.
There was very little turnover last year so I would expect, and no I am not going to go calculate it, the two years would average out to whatever the magic percentile is
Reply
@fine dude
Patana is still considered tied for the elite school in Bangkok, the problem is that as far as british schools go there is more competition with schools such as Harrow, etc in Bangkok and Thailand now. It wasnt that long ago when Patana was the only UK game in town. There are teachers while being compensated and treated very well, were stuck in regards to professional development and advancement. More competition means new opportunities.
@frees1spirit
Like many things the truth is somewhere in the middle. Shanghai just isnt the place where you should enjoy a modern western lifestyle on the cheap anymore. COsts of living have really risen, and where an IT could be near the top of the SEC (Social Economic Class) Shanghai has become the Beverly Hills or Gangnam of China. Meanwhile things like a 2.5% increase in salary and only 10% retirement bonus salary increase just dont mean very much anymore. You use to be able to live like a king or queen with a SAS package, the exploding costs, etc just dont allow that type of lifestyle anymore. I know teachers in Shanghai (including SAS) that could walk into a club and have their pick of woman because being a foreign IT was status, now the socialites are looking for the affluent local C title types.
Its not really the schools fault, but with the work that you have to do at SAS, and not being able to enjoy the old lifestyle, its just become a less attractive location to work in.
Administration has had issues, the word in the admin sphere is that SAS has become more of a transitional appointment then a destination posting.
Patana is still considered tied for the elite school in Bangkok, the problem is that as far as british schools go there is more competition with schools such as Harrow, etc in Bangkok and Thailand now. It wasnt that long ago when Patana was the only UK game in town. There are teachers while being compensated and treated very well, were stuck in regards to professional development and advancement. More competition means new opportunities.
@frees1spirit
Like many things the truth is somewhere in the middle. Shanghai just isnt the place where you should enjoy a modern western lifestyle on the cheap anymore. COsts of living have really risen, and where an IT could be near the top of the SEC (Social Economic Class) Shanghai has become the Beverly Hills or Gangnam of China. Meanwhile things like a 2.5% increase in salary and only 10% retirement bonus salary increase just dont mean very much anymore. You use to be able to live like a king or queen with a SAS package, the exploding costs, etc just dont allow that type of lifestyle anymore. I know teachers in Shanghai (including SAS) that could walk into a club and have their pick of woman because being a foreign IT was status, now the socialites are looking for the affluent local C title types.
Its not really the schools fault, but with the work that you have to do at SAS, and not being able to enjoy the old lifestyle, its just become a less attractive location to work in.
Administration has had issues, the word in the admin sphere is that SAS has become more of a transitional appointment then a destination posting.
@PsyGuy
I'm aware of the increase in the number of British schools in Thailand. I'm just wondering why would an experienced IB teacher move to an 'A levels' school, such as Harrow, even if the benefits are similar? It's my personal opinion that IB is more 'current' in terms of rigor, challenge, and even more fun teaching-wise.
I'm aware of the increase in the number of British schools in Thailand. I'm just wondering why would an experienced IB teacher move to an 'A levels' school, such as Harrow, even if the benefits are similar? It's my personal opinion that IB is more 'current' in terms of rigor, challenge, and even more fun teaching-wise.
Comment
@fine dude
Why does anyone do anything? Some reasons ive been told in the past include:
1) I knew everything there was to know about IB and wanted the challenge of a new school curriculum.
2) I wanted to grow myself professionally.
3) I would like to relocate to the UK or europe.
4) My daughter wants to go to Oxford.
5) I want to stay in this city but have to leave my current school for "X" reason and dont want to take a salary cut.
Is it really your personal opinion? It sounds more like your professional opinion?
I agree with you that its easier to make IB fun, but a good A/A* program easily meets if not exceeds the rigor and challenge of a DIP program.
Why does anyone do anything? Some reasons ive been told in the past include:
1) I knew everything there was to know about IB and wanted the challenge of a new school curriculum.
2) I wanted to grow myself professionally.
3) I would like to relocate to the UK or europe.
4) My daughter wants to go to Oxford.
5) I want to stay in this city but have to leave my current school for "X" reason and dont want to take a salary cut.
Is it really your personal opinion? It sounds more like your professional opinion?
I agree with you that its easier to make IB fun, but a good A/A* program easily meets if not exceeds the rigor and challenge of a DIP program.
If you are planning to come to Shanghai to enjoy a modern western lifestyle, then I would ask why are you coming? In fact I would ask why anyone would want to teach overseas if they wanted a modern western lifestyle.
I can be very critical of SAS. I think there is plenty of room for improvement from the very top to the bottom of the organization. However, that does not change the fact that you can come to SAS and make a good living. My financial advisor back in North America agrees heartily with that statement.
As for the administration, Psyguy's statement really only holds true for the Superintendent position where we have had too many superindentendents in the past few years.
And as for the demands of the job, I have taught in numerous IS and in North America and the demands of the job are no more or less than what I have experienced elsewhere contrary to what Psyguy states.
I can be very critical of SAS. I think there is plenty of room for improvement from the very top to the bottom of the organization. However, that does not change the fact that you can come to SAS and make a good living. My financial advisor back in North America agrees heartily with that statement.
As for the administration, Psyguy's statement really only holds true for the Superintendent position where we have had too many superindentendents in the past few years.
And as for the demands of the job, I have taught in numerous IS and in North America and the demands of the job are no more or less than what I have experienced elsewhere contrary to what Psyguy states.
@PsyGuy
Why does anyone do anything? Some reasons ive been told in the past include:
1) I knew everything there was to know about IB and wanted the challenge of a new school curriculum.
This doesn't make sense. Unlike A levels, IB revises its curriculum every five years and makes significant changes both to the content and the assessment.
2) I wanted to grow myself professionally.
Same as above. How can one grow professionally when you are stuck teaching a curriculum which hasn't been revised for ages?
3) I would like to relocate to the UK or europe.
Some of the finest schools (and also the best paying and more professional) both in the UK and Europe are IB.
4) My daughter wants to go to Oxford.
There are so many variables affecting a student's entry into Oxbridge and the Ivies. If you talk to college advisors (I did), they would say that colleges prefer IB students for they have far better academic (reading, writing, - etc.) and social skills than those from A levels. IB students just don't sit and listen to hours of lecture in teacher-centered classrooms.
5) I want to stay in this city but have to leave my current school for "X" reason and dont want to take a salary cut.
Refer to my answer to #3.
P.S. A levels are outdated in terms of content, learning approach and assessment model, and we both will witness their demise in the years to come.
Happy New Year to you!
Why does anyone do anything? Some reasons ive been told in the past include:
1) I knew everything there was to know about IB and wanted the challenge of a new school curriculum.
This doesn't make sense. Unlike A levels, IB revises its curriculum every five years and makes significant changes both to the content and the assessment.
2) I wanted to grow myself professionally.
Same as above. How can one grow professionally when you are stuck teaching a curriculum which hasn't been revised for ages?
3) I would like to relocate to the UK or europe.
Some of the finest schools (and also the best paying and more professional) both in the UK and Europe are IB.
4) My daughter wants to go to Oxford.
There are so many variables affecting a student's entry into Oxbridge and the Ivies. If you talk to college advisors (I did), they would say that colleges prefer IB students for they have far better academic (reading, writing, - etc.) and social skills than those from A levels. IB students just don't sit and listen to hours of lecture in teacher-centered classrooms.
5) I want to stay in this city but have to leave my current school for "X" reason and dont want to take a salary cut.
Refer to my answer to #3.
P.S. A levels are outdated in terms of content, learning approach and assessment model, and we both will witness their demise in the years to come.
Happy New Year to you!
Reply
1) They dont change the curriculum so much as they refine some pedagogy and methodology.
2) If youve never taught a UK curriculum, its new to you, no matter how old it is.
3) Some of the finest school are also UK curriculum schools.
4) Yeah i imagine one of those factors might be going to a british school and having A level exam scores.
5) Right so if your at the top IB school in a city and you have to leave your school, then the top British school is more likely to be better then the second IB school.
Lots of things are outdated, but that seems to be a positive to brits. I dont see them going anywhere in my lifetime.
2) If youve never taught a UK curriculum, its new to you, no matter how old it is.
3) Some of the finest school are also UK curriculum schools.
4) Yeah i imagine one of those factors might be going to a british school and having A level exam scores.
5) Right so if your at the top IB school in a city and you have to leave your school, then the top British school is more likely to be better then the second IB school.
Lots of things are outdated, but that seems to be a positive to brits. I dont see them going anywhere in my lifetime.
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frees1spirit
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:12 pm
Whether a classroom is teacher or student centred does not depend on whether it is IB or A'level. Neither dictates how to teach the subject.
Also I don't think the way IB assesses is very different from the way A'levels assess, at least not in science. Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was quite similar. I would compare A'levels to doing HL certificates in IB.
Also I don't think the way IB assesses is very different from the way A'levels assess, at least not in science. Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was quite similar. I would compare A'levels to doing HL certificates in IB.
Reply
Well inquiry based pedagogy is more difficult and less practical to do in a A level classroom. In the same way it would be difficult to still say your embracing the IB learner profile in an A level classroom. They really are the ying and yang when it comes to student/teacher centered strategies. the two approaches are discreet/categorical approaches, they arent really on the poles of a continuum, one isnt just the inverse and opposite of the other.
They are assessed in very similar ways, when it comes to the actual examination but the preparation and path that the different approaches use to get there is very different. I would equate A level to HL as well, at least in the core subjects (it breaks down when you start looking at fine and performing arts), though now there are A* levels though there isnt an equivalent IB to that.
They are assessed in very similar ways, when it comes to the actual examination but the preparation and path that the different approaches use to get there is very different. I would equate A level to HL as well, at least in the core subjects (it breaks down when you start looking at fine and performing arts), though now there are A* levels though there isnt an equivalent IB to that.
vacancies at SAS
I am currently a teacher at SAS. The number of vacancies is not to do with a declining pay package. We still receive the 10% retirement and next year our salary increase is about 4.6%. After speaking to the teachers leaving, they are all leaving for different reasons, most of which are related to having been at the school for a significant amount of time and it is simply time to move on to new challenges. I don't find Shanghai to be too expensive on our salary as it is really only the food that I notice being significantly dearer than when we started here 5 years ago. We don't pay accommodation, utilities, etc. and so there are not too many day-to-day expenses (unless you want to dine out a lot etc.) As a previous poster said, last year there were very few vacancies at the Pudong Campus, and this year is simply "evening things out". Despite problems with the board, teachers are very happy teaching here and I would not be deterred by the number of vacancies. I would also like to add that the number of duties and responsibilities is not going up at all. High school teachers do about 6 hours of duty a year (this does vary by division) and we are only expected to be involved in one activity or sport from our second year of teaching for which we are paid a stipend. If a teacher has more responsibilities then they have chosen to do that.