So I am ready to move on but unlike before, I now want to find a '2nd tier' school. Okay yes I know the tiers are subjective, but you get what I mean. I don't want to be in a school where I spend all my time working.
So what do I look for in the reviews, "This school could be better if they were more organized'?
This is more difficult than I thought. Any suggestions of good 2nd tier school?
I am not looking for a high salary but some savings would be nice.
Second Tier Schools
Reply
Pretty easy actually, avoid the "National" schools (DOS school for the USA British, Canadian, Australian schools. Easy because they have the country name in the name). Then identify the major cities (in asia) that have one of those schools that they compete with. Those schools are likely to be the second tier schools. Lastly, the newer the schools that arent bad are going to be in the second tier.
I guess that could sort of work for some places, except that in many places, like Saigon, many schools have American in the name and they are pretty bad.
And the US school which was good at the time didn't have American in the name.
Any names of places? I was told Brent in the Philippines fits the bill except I don't see any jobs advertised at the moment.
And the US school which was good at the time didn't have American in the name.
Any names of places? I was told Brent in the Philippines fits the bill except I don't see any jobs advertised at the moment.
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overseasvet2
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:50 pm
Malaysia
People seem fairly content at Mt. Kiara in Malaysia. Colegio Americano in Guatemala has sent on people who say positive things about it.
Clarification
@sangster2
Im sorry if I was unclear, I specifically didnt include "American" in my list (British, Canadian, Australian, etc) but referred to the DOS (Department of State) as the American schools
Im sorry if I was unclear, I specifically didnt include "American" in my list (British, Canadian, Australian, etc) but referred to the DOS (Department of State) as the American schools
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PermanentXpat
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:03 am
- Location: Asia
curious about what 'tier' means
I'm seeing 1st - 2nd - 3rd tier labels being used and wonder what criteria is used to classify schools that way:
- # of years in existence?
- how well students do when they graduate?
- how good the salary and benefits are?
- how hard teachers need to work?
- prestige established through sports or fine arts programs?
- quality of education provided (measured by??)?
Seems it could be misleading or at least confusing to try and talk about schools in this way. Who gets to determine the tier??
- # of years in existence?
- how well students do when they graduate?
- how good the salary and benefits are?
- how hard teachers need to work?
- prestige established through sports or fine arts programs?
- quality of education provided (measured by??)?
Seems it could be misleading or at least confusing to try and talk about schools in this way. Who gets to determine the tier??
Comment
Short Answer: Money, and teachers, parents, other stakeholders determine the tiers. Its a subjective system to compare one school in a given local with another school.
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
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PermanentXpat
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:03 am
- Location: Asia
tiers
This is all subjective. Some so called 3rd tier schools that are properly managed can be the best places to work. It is all about having a good director who can set the tone and has the understanding and courage to do the right thing. Most administrators out there are phonies and can ruin any tier school. Playing politics, uptight, not supporting teachers, poor leadership is in my opinion rife at all levels in international education. Anywhere really...It is a giant epidemic of cowardly educators who dont have experience in any other arena other than int ed. so they think they can act and do as they please. Granted, I have never taught at a 1st tier school but I have been to many and seen them in action. I am what Psychguy would call a desperate teacher. But here is my take on this:
1st tier is North American staff and mostly North American students (North American can also include Brits, Aussies and Kiwis)
2nd tier mostly North American staff and local students
3rd tier most local staff and local students with a pattering of foreign hires
Compensation isnt a main criteria. Cost of living of host country, etc all come into play. And between all these levels are gray areas.
1st tier is North American staff and mostly North American students (North American can also include Brits, Aussies and Kiwis)
2nd tier mostly North American staff and local students
3rd tier most local staff and local students with a pattering of foreign hires
Compensation isnt a main criteria. Cost of living of host country, etc all come into play. And between all these levels are gray areas.
Re: tiers
[quote="Roberto"]This is all subjective. Some so called 3rd tier schools that are properly managed can be the best places to work. It is all about having a good director who can set the tone and has the understanding and courage to do the right thing. [/quote]
Well said.
[quote]1st tier is North American staff and mostly North American students (North American can also include Brits, Aussies and Kiwis)
2nd tier mostly North American staff and local students
3rd tier most local staff and local students with a pattering of foreign hires
Compensation isnt a main criteria. Cost of living of host country, etc all come into play. And between all these levels are gray areas.[/quote]
Well according to your criteria I'm at a 2nd tier school. As I have no reference point other than the school I'm in, I'm ok with that. All teachers are North American accredited, all students are local. School has a yearly accreditation by a Canadian provincal education ministry and passes with flying colours. It's a decent place to work, made that much better by having a fair and supportive principal and reasonable, personable owners.
Well said.
[quote]1st tier is North American staff and mostly North American students (North American can also include Brits, Aussies and Kiwis)
2nd tier mostly North American staff and local students
3rd tier most local staff and local students with a pattering of foreign hires
Compensation isnt a main criteria. Cost of living of host country, etc all come into play. And between all these levels are gray areas.[/quote]
Well according to your criteria I'm at a 2nd tier school. As I have no reference point other than the school I'm in, I'm ok with that. All teachers are North American accredited, all students are local. School has a yearly accreditation by a Canadian provincal education ministry and passes with flying colours. It's a decent place to work, made that much better by having a fair and supportive principal and reasonable, personable owners.
Comment
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
@ PermanentXpat
Thanks, Ive been doing this a long time, and am in a position that allows me to see a lot of schools.
@Roberto,
If the director/admin/head was such a great leader, and the school managed properly then the school would reflect that in its practices, and observations and it wouldnt be a 3rd tier school.
@aridon
Tier level comparison is only relevant and valid within the same region. It wouldnt be appropriate to compare a 2nd tier school in Thailand to a 2nd tier school in Belgium. Too many external factors in economics, culture, etc make comparisons no longer representative. For instance housing isnt included in the vast majority of WE contracts. In Asia a school without housing or a housing allowance would be below the expectations typically found in Thai ISs. If we were to compare schools in those regions (Belgium and Thailand) on that factor, wed conclude that the Belgium school is lower in quality to the Thai school
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
@ PermanentXpat
Thanks, Ive been doing this a long time, and am in a position that allows me to see a lot of schools.
@Roberto,
If the director/admin/head was such a great leader, and the school managed properly then the school would reflect that in its practices, and observations and it wouldnt be a 3rd tier school.
@aridon
Tier level comparison is only relevant and valid within the same region. It wouldnt be appropriate to compare a 2nd tier school in Thailand to a 2nd tier school in Belgium. Too many external factors in economics, culture, etc make comparisons no longer representative. For instance housing isnt included in the vast majority of WE contracts. In Asia a school without housing or a housing allowance would be below the expectations typically found in Thai ISs. If we were to compare schools in those regions (Belgium and Thailand) on that factor, wed conclude that the Belgium school is lower in quality to the Thai school
Comment
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
@ PermanentXpat
Thanks, Ive been doing this a long time, and am in a position that allows me to see a lot of schools.
@Roberto,
If the director/admin/head was such a great leader, and the school managed properly then the school would reflect that in its practices, and observations and it wouldnt be a 3rd tier school.
@aridon
Tier level comparison is only relevant and valid within the same region. It wouldnt be appropriate to compare a 2nd tier school in Thailand to a 2nd tier school in Belgium. Too many external factors in economics, culture, etc make comparisons no longer representative. For instance housing isnt included in the vast majority of WE contracts. In Asia a school without housing or a housing allowance would be below the expectations typically found in Thai ISs. If we were to compare schools in those regions (Belgium and Thailand) on that factor, wed conclude that the Belgium school is lower in quality to the Thai school
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
@ PermanentXpat
Thanks, Ive been doing this a long time, and am in a position that allows me to see a lot of schools.
@Roberto,
If the director/admin/head was such a great leader, and the school managed properly then the school would reflect that in its practices, and observations and it wouldnt be a 3rd tier school.
@aridon
Tier level comparison is only relevant and valid within the same region. It wouldnt be appropriate to compare a 2nd tier school in Thailand to a 2nd tier school in Belgium. Too many external factors in economics, culture, etc make comparisons no longer representative. For instance housing isnt included in the vast majority of WE contracts. In Asia a school without housing or a housing allowance would be below the expectations typically found in Thai ISs. If we were to compare schools in those regions (Belgium and Thailand) on that factor, wed conclude that the Belgium school is lower in quality to the Thai school