DODEA Question

ringler24
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

DODEA Question

Post by ringler24 »

In an attempt to not highjack a previous thread I'm going to post my question here. There's often been much discussion in reference to DODDS hiring and certs/cert combos. In higher need areas like mine (ESL) what amount of wight if any is placed on actual expertise? For example when a principal looks at everyone qualified for a particular position are they looking for the person with the most experience or just anyone who has the right license combo?

It seems like anyone can just whip through a few courses and gain another cert but it doesn't mean they have any experience in that area. I've pondered adding Special Ed or Early Childhood, but then I've also thought if there was a point to that being that I have no experience actually working with those populations. If ESL/reading/Elementary Spanish are the areas where I actually have significant experience should I just stick to those?

With that said I didn't hear about anyone hired for this school year with any of those so maybe I'm just experienced in the wrong area.

I would go the internstionl school route except I have no experience teaching overseas and three kids and a non teaching husband, so that's pretty much not going to happen.
WeDoDude
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

I just got invited to the BKK fair and I have a non-teaching spouse and 2 children. My Search Associate said that many of the top schools hire you based on what you can do for them and what impact you will have on the school and its culture. I'm sure Walter can add to and expand this as well. So please do not give up hope because PsyGuy says that you are going to be too expensive for a school.

As for DoDEA, adding as many certs as you can will make you more attractive. We are a geographically dispersed school district that cannot always tap into the local/base population to fill our needs. Sometimes we have to be creative and want an elementary teacher and ESL combo. The more certs you have the more flexible you are within the system. Don't ever stop growing as a professional. Learn as much as you can because you're the type of teacher that will go far in DoDEA.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Sorry

Post by PsyGuy »

I have to disagree at least technically. Certs dont matter much in DODEA, credit hours and qualification is what matters (except that you only need half the hours if an area to be qualified if your certified).

Many of the teachers I have met have one commonality, they have a lot of experience in what they teach. DODEA can afford to be very selective, and its highly unlikely if you have no experience in a subject area being qualified is going to put you at he top of the pile.

Its this technicality that puts ESL and SPED in such high demand, its not that their arent teachers who apply who dont have a lot of experience, its that they dont have the specific classes they need to be qualified by DODEA standards. Thats why those positions are hard to fill, add in the position combinations, and disqualify everyone in the applicant database.

I do agree that you should continue to expand your resume with additional qualifications, though that depends on how hard and how much effort you have to do. In my state (California) you only have to pass the praxis to add a certification. if your ina state though that requires significant coursework, then thats a a much greater investment.

IS recruiters care what you have taught and what you CAN teach. Every year many newbies get hired and they dont have "much experience". The reason its often an unattractive approach for an IT, is that you usually have to rebuild part of your career in a new field. A 1st tier school would be interested in a ESL teacher who IS teaching experience in ESL, switching your area to SPED with no SPED experience is not going to be nearly as competitive for a position at the same school. When teachers look at the choice of going up to a better school/region or going backwards to a lower tier school or less desirable region its hard to see the return on that kind of investment.
WeDoDude
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Post by WeDoDude »

Says the guy that claims to ha e over 20 certs. Sheesh, give it a rest PsyGuy, no one is buying what you're selling.
PsyGuy
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Sigh

Post by PsyGuy »

I have those qualifications because I have the course work and credit hours for them.
WeDoDude
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Post by WeDoDude »

And so would anyone that continued their studies, something you just said not to do.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Yes

Post by PsyGuy »

I didn't say not too, I wrote that the reader would have to balance the costs of working towards those qualifications vs the potential return n the investment. Again, it's a naive POV, the pursuit of education regardless of expense or potential bennifits.
ringler24
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

Post by ringler24 »

I have extensive experience in ESL (US public school not overseas) along with a Masters in it. I have the DODEA qualification for ESL along with all elemtary grades, Spanish k-12 I also significant experience teaching elementary. I've just been on the fence as to whether I should add areas where I don't have experience. I'm leaning towards doing it because at the very least as WeDo Dude said it will help me be a better teacher

I'm basis my assertion on the international school thing based on speaking with someone at SEARCH well as what I've heard from people here. She told me if I didn't have my dependent situation they would have invited me to the fair of my choosing, but because of it they would have made me wait untill one of the last fairs and even then, a long shot.

I assumed based on what I've read here that Tier I schools only hire people already in the international school circuit without my family scenario. Not true?
ringler24
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Post by ringler24 »

Sorry my typos are courtesy of my IPad.
dutchschultz
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Post by dutchschultz »

SighGuy, you make laugh. You give out advice that a person needs to "balance" the learni g vs. the costs yet you have defaulted on student loans and took out student loans when you knew you could not afford to repay them. Maybe you should have taken your own advice.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Comments

Post by PsyGuy »

See this is where wedodude advise is faulty, I assumes the best way to improve yourself as a teacher is more certifications. Here's the thing, I have 29 certifications, but I can't teach many of them any better then a newbie, and I don't have a couple lifetimes to really get the needed experience in them all. There are other ways of becoming a better teacher and growing your skill set, that focuses on your strengths. Schools including DODEA are not looking for someone who can just barely do everything, they want veterans who can teach a subject VERY well. Teachers who know how to get their students past challenges, and over obstacles, that a teacher without experience would falter, because they really don't know much more then the textbook.

I here your frustration, and she's right, it's just an honest assessment. Your an expensive hire, and with your familys logistical situation it's going to be a tough sell. The cost to hire you puts you at the bottom of the pile, and that's why a late fair, because those schools may just be desperate enough to pay the costs of your family.

Would A SPED certification match well with ESL, yes it would. A number of ESL students in ISs are just undiagnosed SPED students. Would it make you more marketable, yes, but with just certification, it's not going to overcome your family situation. If you had 5 years SPED experience, and something extra that was special, that's when the cost to hire you becomes worth it.

In the short term, relocating yourself and approaching a school as a local hire or becoming a teacher couple are some short term options. Long term you need to look at moving into an admin role, or getting enough experience that an elite school will hire you without working your way up.
ringler24
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

Post by ringler24 »

I'm not interested in getting in the years of direct SPED experience because I would have to abandon my ELL kids to do that and working with ELLs is my passion. Would 8 years working with them me enough to turn the head of an elite school? Maybe I'll give it a shot. I'm happy here. If going overseas doesn't work out I'm okay with that, but I want to give it a try.
ringler24
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

Post by ringler24 »

Additionally though I'd be okay with doing the coursework to add a DODEA cert, I just don't want to put in actual years working in a Sped classroom for reasons memtioned above. Likewise my city has frozen our teaching licenses so even if I got the cert I couldn't teach it here right now.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reflection

Post by PsyGuy »

Is eight years enough? I think you've been this forum long enou to know that there are a dozen answers to that question and none of them will be entirely wrong or entirely right. There are just too many factors, and your familys logistical situation is a BIG obstacle, there isn't anything you can do to really make it go away.

I do know this (IS or DODEA), an experienced ESL teacher applying for an ESL vacancy with 8 years experience, is a stronger candidate then an ESL teacher with NO experience in SPED, applying for a SPED position. It's been written here many times, being certified ONLY makes you legally able to do the job. In some situations that's enough to get the job, in the vast majority of other scenarios, it doesn't.
WeDoDude
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

Your goal is to get into the organization. In order to get into the organization you need to have 1 of 2 things, experience, or the right certifications. We hire 1st year teachers all of the time, just did in fact hire a 1st year teacher with 2 certs that we were looking for.

If you don't have a ton of experience, that's ok also, there may be some locations and admin that may not look at you, but there will be a lot of other admins in other locations that will if you have the certs that they are looking for.

Experience does not equal quality, something that PsyGuy doesn't seem to understand. He's a guy that claims all of these certs and having the experience in some areas to back it up. Yet he doesn't stay in any one location long enough to build any longevity. He bounces every 1 to 2 years. DoDEA won't hire this kind of teacher. It costs upwards of $50,000 to PCS a new CONUS hire to their overseas post. It costs another $50,000 to PCS them back to CONUS. This year especially we've been told to be careful about who we hire from CONUS and look at things like length of employment. PsyGuy wouldn't have made it out of EAS, he'd have been filtered out.

My advice is to obtain certs in areas that you are passionate about teaching in. If you have multiple certs then you are my flexible to us as to where we can place you. Our teachers can retire/quit at any time during the year, so having flexibility is a good thing.

There are no guarantees that you will get hired with DoDEA. We're an organization in flux at the moment. I'm telling you as a person that hires for DoDEA what myself and other admin look for and how we think. We want quality teachers that are passionate about coming into work everyday and working with great kids. We want teachers that want to continue learning and growing and developing 21st century skill sets. We don't want teachers that have 1, or 2 certs, no stability at any of their previous positions and who cling to old practice.

If you're what we're looking for Ringler, great, keep in touch with me and if we have spots to hire for this year I will gladly look you up and contact you. If you're more like PsyGuy, I want to stay as far from you as possible.
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