What's a reasonable expectation?

moose
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:02 pm
Location: Europe

What's a reasonable expectation?

Post by moose »

I have been teaching in the States for 14 years at a wonderful school. While I am happy, I've had a desire to travel and teach abroad for years, so my family and I are beginning the search for a new place to call home. I have excellent references, and my school is willing to grant me a leave of absence, which offers me some security to return.

My concern is this: I have a trailing spouse and 2 elementary-aged children. I know that can be a deal-breaker for some schools. However, other friends who've taught abroad have told me it may not matter, as I teach secondary mathematics, which is in demand. (I also have experience teaching in my minor, history.) I do have a Master's degree, but no IB experience.

What is a reasonable expectation for my family? Do you believe we will struggle to find a position, or is 3 dependents truly a stumbling block? (We currently live on one income, so this would not be new for us.)

I appreciate your feedback.
tdaley26
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:40 pm

Post by tdaley26 »

I can only give you my own experience. I was in a situation much like yours. wife and 3 kids , satisfied in the us, but hoping for an overseas job. I started applying for jobs in December, put out about 20 or so, got 5 or six interviews and 3 job offers. There will be some on this site who will advise you not to be fussy as to location, i disagree. When you have children you have to consider the environment they will be in. I think you have a reasonable chance landing a decent position, though i think you may be a little late in applying for this year.
moose
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:02 pm
Location: Europe

Post by moose »

Thanks for the advice. I'm not applying for this year--looking at the 2013-14 year. I'm really in the process of researching places and procedures right now, and getting all of personal stuff in order here. (House ready to go on the market, reduce our sheer volume of stuff, and so on. It's amazing how much junk 4 people accumulate!)

I'm open to different locations, but obviously wherever we go, it will have to be good for kids.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Depends

Post by PsyGuy »

It depends what your expectations are. Mainly where you want to go, and what lifestyle you want. So far we know this;

Pros: Math is usually in high demand, you have plenty of experience, and an advance degree.

Cons: You have no IB experience, no international experience, and your a single hire with 3 dependents.

What does that mean? First, understand your an expensive hire. Thats 4 tickets, and a three bedroom apartment. I hope your not thinking of western europe? I ask that because while salaries are nice, taxes are high, europe doesnt give housing allowances, and you get taxed on your tuition waivers. Basically, you would starve on a single salary. Your two good for the third tier schools and the middle east schools (though it would be an easy way to get IB experience, and if you didnt get in with an IB school, and were planing on doing this for a decade, maybe). Basically your looking at a strong tier 2 school, or low tier 1 school in asia (outside the 3 little tigers: Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore). Salaried are nice, low cost of living, provided housing (may be hard as many schools dont have many if any 3 bedroom apartments) or housing allowances, and very low taxes.

I think you should try though, pay the $200 to join an agency, and go to the fair. You will get about 4-6 interviews and 2 (maybe 3) offers at a fair. One of those will stick out as having a better package. You will probably also get an offer from a school "around" Germany. It will be hard to turn down, but ask questions and do your research. Ive known many teachers with families that took euro offers, that did not do well financially.
moose
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:02 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Depends

Post by moose »

[quote="PsyGuy"]I hope your not thinking of western europe? I ask that because while salaries are nice, taxes are high, europe doesnt give housing allowances, and you get taxed on your tuition waivers. Basically, you would starve on a single salary. [/quote]

No, although I would love to go to W.Europe, I don't think it's reasonable for the same reasons. I have no desire to starve just for a location. There are many cool places to explore. My husband is willing to work in a support position or something, but has been a stay-at-home-dad for the last 8 years.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Then

Post by PsyGuy »

Eastern Europe may be an option, if that's your thing and you like cold. If your a sun and warm weather person somewhere in China, Thailand, S.Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, etc would be something you could be comfortably successful at. As long as your not expecting one of the elite schools, you should do fine.
camiguinpiper
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:20 am

note of encouragement!

Post by camiguinpiper »

Wanted to reply b/c though I am not a teacher this was my husbands exact position and we are moving in August to S. Korea! Even with three dependents we will have a 3 bedroom apt., free school for the kids and any money I make will just be icing on the cake. Because of all the perks we will pay off our debt in the first year.

All this to say I think that math/science teachers seem to have an edge at the fairs and while European schools might not be interested for the reasons stated in above posts there are a lot of great schools that will be. My husband had a very creative resume which made him stand out at the fair so that is definitely something I recommend!

Happy to answer any questions about our experience!
moose
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:02 pm
Location: Europe

Post by moose »

Thanks for the info! I'm a warm weather person, and my husband prefers cold, but we're both flexible. (We live in a cold-weather area right now.) Eastern Europe, SE Asia...I'm open to ideas. I'm glad to hear that you've had a good experience, camiguinpiper! It's been awhile since I've had to build a resume or CV, so I've been working on that. Assuming we sell our house before we move, we'll be debt-free going into the experience, which I think is ideal...the only bills to pay will be storage for any stuff we leave behind.
DCgirl
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 5:01 pm

Post by DCgirl »

I have 2 dependents and attended 3 job fairs before land a job. I was discouraged but determined to find an international teaching position. The dependents were an issue for some schools but during each fair I had more positive responses and interviews with quality schools. I eventually landed a job that I really enjoy in Hong Kong. Spouses are able to work here and there are many families with dependents. Good luck.
Mathman
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:18 am

Post by Mathman »

You will struggle

You've taught for a few years longer than I, but that is the only thing on paper that seems stronger than what I bring.

Also 3 dependents, but I teach physics as well and have IB experience. It seems that I also come highly recommended from my references on search.

Basically, I interviewed with all tier 1 schools and 2 at the fairs I attended and had others on Skype. Most were interested but uncommitted. Some shared that it was the number of dependents being the biggest hurdLe and that they were waiting. A few admins also said that they offered it to lesser candidates for financial consideration. One offered the job to the second guy as a local hire (though he is not), but he took it. Probably given away who I am now.....

I was finally hired outside of the fairs by a school that was looking for someone to start bringing their exam grades up and basically offered off the bat. I was already in contract negotiations with another school at the time, but chose the school that was more interested and made more effort.

If you want to start this, my advice is to be open to where you get posted, or you will get nothing, or just shit 'education' centers.

Ps math is highly competitive. But most of them are kinda crap and frustrate the he'll out of me when I have to explain math to them......

However,
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Consideration

Post by PsyGuy »

@moose

I really would like to suggest that you think about why you want to move and teach overseas. I ask because you need to ask yourself how important it is to you, and what your willing to sacrifice to do it? I know you said you want to "travel" and i get that, but you also sound like you have a pretty nice job, that your happy at, have a nice home, etc. So a few things to consider:

1) The international school circuit is a reflection of the national school situation. I probably dont have to tell you that teachers in western/english speaking countries have problems. Recessions have been hitting both the USA, UK, Europe. As a result the labor pool has swelled, and schools can be more selective. Its not five years ago, when being a math/science/sped teacher meant you could write your own ticket. Thats not to say your not accomplished, its just that when your at the Bangkok fair, everyone in the room is accomplished. You become a newbie all over again.

2) The media has had a huge impact on international teachers. Basically, they paint a life that really only exists at the TOP/elite schools. That said your expensive, hiring you is supporting 4 people, either you pay for it from your salary (which your school provides), or your school provides it directly. Thats a lot of money for the school to shell out, and "every" teacher thinks they are worth it.

3) Teaching internationally isnt like traveling. You dont get to travel as much as you think. Basically you can see your local area city, and venture out during long breaks/vacations but thats about it. You really need to ask yourself, what your willing to give up and sacrifice to be overseas.
anitahorton
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:31 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: note of encouragement!

Post by anitahorton »

[quote="camiguinpiper"]Wanted to reply b/c though I am not a teacher this was my husbands exact position and we are moving in August to S. Korea! Even with three dependents we will have a 3 bedroom apt., free school for the kids and any money I make will just be icing on the cake. Because of all the perks we will pay off our debt in the first year.

All this to say I think that math/science teachers seem to have an edge at the fairs and while European schools might not be interested for the reasons stated in above posts there are a lot of great schools that will be. My husband had a very creative resume which made him stand out at the fair so that is definitely something I recommend!

Happy to answer any questions about our experience![/quote]

HI! Could you explain what a "very creative resume" is?
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Some

Post by PsyGuy »

Ive seen:

Flyers
Brochures
Coupon/Gift Certificate/Funny Money
Business Card
CD/DVD (one with a 40 minute staged interview on disk)
Colored (Pink) and Scented paper
8x10 photos (with the resume printed on the back)
A "wedding" invitation
Kids Picture Book
anitahorton
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:31 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Post by anitahorton »

no way! How bizarre. Sounds total cheesy, but maybe not outside of Dallas? :) Wow. I'm stunned. A wedding invitation? Ha! Now that might work in Dallas. :)
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Really

Post by PsyGuy »

The Wedding invite was on embossed card stock with silver foil accents, came double enveloped with a silver wax seal, and read "You are formally invited to a premier interview between (teachers name) and the name of the school. and had a number to "RSVP". I imagine they personalized each one in advance for each school.

Its all about getting a recruiters attention, and differentiating yourself from everyone else, and creativity is valuable, goes a long way in a classroom. Recruiters do the same thing, those custom made interview card invites, and flash drives they put in our folders, make stronger impressions, then the scribbled note. Dont forget the multi-page full color glossy prospectus they all have, or the pens, keychains and other "swag". Of course its cheesy, but cheesy is better then the alternative which is what? Black laser printed type on white paper...
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