I know this discussion has taken place in the past - I've been lurking for a while now - but, here goes...
Psyguy, I have to say that it's interesting to see you jump in so quickly to help everyone who posts here. Even if you don't have any experience with what they inquire about, you're here, happily waving something you've found out. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that that's impressive; it takes a lot of time to search for information.
However, it's troubling when you post messages, with "ironclad" certitude, about the inner workings of things that you cannot possibly know.
That point has been pointed out to you many times so I want to move on to something that is as, or, in the light of our profession as educators, even more troubling: the pronouncements that you make so unabashedly about another culture and area of the world.
You happened to have one bad experience in Cairo and subsequently bash all of the Middle East repeatedly. When someone posts a question seeking information on anything to do with ME, you're here to thwart them and slam their interests in the region.
It is almost unbelievable that you are an INTERNATIONAL educator, with the amount of culture/region-bashing you do.
I ask you, in the name of international education, to be more sensitive to how you respond here to questions on the Middle East.
It's just reprehensible how you can so carelessly pick up a whole region, with its millions of people, diverse cities and hundreds of schools and just flick it off - as if that one awful experience YOU "suffered" should now affect its image in the eyes of everyone from here on.
There is a word for that way of thinking and it ain't pretty.
Psyguy: Open Letter #2
A reading from the second letter of Psyguy to the newbie
I will make my first response short, since ive addressed it several times in the past. The basis for my responses are my experience, and from that experience i know where to look for support to my claims and opinions. I do not NEED to "look something up". I do not propose to declare anything with "iron clad certitude", i have some very strong claims and positions for just the opposite of your conclusion, in that I really do know because i have experience in their inner workings.
On to my second response...
My experience in egypt and Cairo are my experiences, and they are valid. There is no argument that you can offer that alters that experience. It is not malleable to rhetoric. Cairo is a very middle eastern culture and many of my problems revolve around that culture, and I have no issue with extrapolating that experience to other middle eastern cultures and subsequently the whole region. I do not "carelessly" flick the entire region off, I do so with deep, PERSONAL, and deliberate conviction. It is not a position i tender haphazardly for there is no greater affirming and relevant evidence then my own experience.
This is a forum, and like the coliseum and forums of old it is a place for varied opinions, claims, and positions to be "dueled" out. This is not journalism, if you want unbiased, objective reporting I can direct you to several news and book publishers.
This is not a sensitive issue, and so i need not be sensitive about it. You and others are welcome and encouraged to offer differing and conflicting opinions, and experiences. They do not invalidate or diminish mine, and I need not be forgiving or charitable in my application and expression of that experience.
You are not in a position to invoke for the sake of "international educators" everywhere anything. The word your looking for is "prejudice" (Im also prejudice against pistachio ice cream, coffee, republicans, diesel trucks, baby turtles, spiders, religious fanatics, hair dye, corduroy, burkas, girls who use "like" in every sentence and anything "emo, goth, or punk" and thats the just the super short list).
On to my second response...
My experience in egypt and Cairo are my experiences, and they are valid. There is no argument that you can offer that alters that experience. It is not malleable to rhetoric. Cairo is a very middle eastern culture and many of my problems revolve around that culture, and I have no issue with extrapolating that experience to other middle eastern cultures and subsequently the whole region. I do not "carelessly" flick the entire region off, I do so with deep, PERSONAL, and deliberate conviction. It is not a position i tender haphazardly for there is no greater affirming and relevant evidence then my own experience.
This is a forum, and like the coliseum and forums of old it is a place for varied opinions, claims, and positions to be "dueled" out. This is not journalism, if you want unbiased, objective reporting I can direct you to several news and book publishers.
This is not a sensitive issue, and so i need not be sensitive about it. You and others are welcome and encouraged to offer differing and conflicting opinions, and experiences. They do not invalidate or diminish mine, and I need not be forgiving or charitable in my application and expression of that experience.
You are not in a position to invoke for the sake of "international educators" everywhere anything. The word your looking for is "prejudice" (Im also prejudice against pistachio ice cream, coffee, republicans, diesel trucks, baby turtles, spiders, religious fanatics, hair dye, corduroy, burkas, girls who use "like" in every sentence and anything "emo, goth, or punk" and thats the just the super short list).
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lonesomeocean
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:43 am
Really
Really??? I have big prejudices against coffee. My espresso needs to be from arabica beans (preferably from Ethiopia, and not from south or latin america). The beans must be roasted to a city roast (NOT french or espresso roast) and the grinding must be done no more then an hour before brewing. The resulting espresso should have a silky opaque creme, and the aroma should be indicative of the bean, not the roast.
Too many people drink bad coffee, and too many places serve bad coffee. Over roasting of the beans burns off the oils and creates too much acid. Old beans and old grounds loose their essential oil compounds. Too hot of water over extracts. Starbucks has turned coffee into disgusting coffee flavored milk shakes (alas they have Starbucks in Rome.)
So yes, I have prejudices against coffee, you have issues with that then bring it.
Too many people drink bad coffee, and too many places serve bad coffee. Over roasting of the beans burns off the oils and creates too much acid. Old beans and old grounds loose their essential oil compounds. Too hot of water over extracts. Starbucks has turned coffee into disgusting coffee flavored milk shakes (alas they have Starbucks in Rome.)
So yes, I have prejudices against coffee, you have issues with that then bring it.
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lonesomeocean
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:43 am
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interteach
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
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Irish Rover
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:26 pm
Psycho Guy
I too think that anyone who has so much time to post on an international teaching board, probably needs to find other interests or productive ways to use his time. He could even get several accounts, if he wants to post so frequently, so people wouldn't get so annoyed.
There are so many teachers who are far more experienced in international teaching than this guy and as a veteran international teacher, I think he sounds like he would be very annoying to work or travel with. My experience is that you meet some of the best, worst and flakiest people in international schools and, based on the postings he makes, I wouldn't want to work with him.
Interteach, I too am a long time member of ISR and I think it serves a very important purpose because we international teachers are very vulnerable. I have always enjoyed your posts, so please stay on the site.
ISR should limit the responses better, so that we don't have what do yo call them, trolls?
There are so many teachers who are far more experienced in international teaching than this guy and as a veteran international teacher, I think he sounds like he would be very annoying to work or travel with. My experience is that you meet some of the best, worst and flakiest people in international schools and, based on the postings he makes, I wouldn't want to work with him.
Interteach, I too am a long time member of ISR and I think it serves a very important purpose because we international teachers are very vulnerable. I have always enjoyed your posts, so please stay on the site.
ISR should limit the responses better, so that we don't have what do yo call them, trolls?
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
At the time of writing PsyGuy has had the last word on 19 topics...which contain some wonderful examples of 'advice', such as:
"You can take the position and keep looking and if your dream job or a better job comes up you can dump the Kuwait school, claiming they were trying to scam you on airfare or paperwork or something, and luckily another school came around to save you. Very few people would blame you in such a situation, and if you did it right it wouldn't really cost you anything."
If this was an administrator proposing treating teachers in this way then we would all be up in arms about unethical behaviour...oh, hang on...he is an administrator isn't he!
"You can take the position and keep looking and if your dream job or a better job comes up you can dump the Kuwait school, claiming they were trying to scam you on airfare or paperwork or something, and luckily another school came around to save you. Very few people would blame you in such a situation, and if you did it right it wouldn't really cost you anything."
If this was an administrator proposing treating teachers in this way then we would all be up in arms about unethical behaviour...oh, hang on...he is an administrator isn't he!
Comments
@lifeisnotsobad
The only issue ill rally raise is that there are admins who do the same thing. Admins who sign a teacher at a fair, then leave them hanging for months only to make some lame claim that they couldnt get the visas or something, and leave a teacher late in the recruiting process with far fewer if any options. This is the real world not a classroom exercise in ethics. Your free to disagree with it (and many people did), but i explore options, all options in discussions on this board.
@Irish Rover
I really dont like posting as multiple aliases, i think readers deserve some aspect of continuity and association. When i post something i want the reader to be able to associate that view or opinion with one person (good or bad). Theres a difference between being anonymous and being ethereal.
I do think there are a number of contributors to this site who have greater depth in specific experiences and more recent information, and I do often defer to them on this board. That said i have 8 years experience in international education and i have a very wide breadth of experience.
@bigfatgit
Not a whole lot to say, and I dont know how you were "libeled". I had to look up who Walter Mitty was, and the answer is just that your wrong, and you dont know what you think you know. Not really interested in convincing you otherwise.
@interteach
It would be misinformation if it was wrong, but many things are true, including that people disagree what is true. We just have different points of view, and derive our conclusions based on different experiences. The vast majority of the information on this site is opinion.
@et..al
To make it short (ive been busier lately) most of the posts on this forum and really any forum, whether they be opinions, discussions, experiences, advice, guidance, all manner of commentary is at best subjective. The truth for one person can easily be fiction for someone else. Its a dynamic world, what might have been bad one year may very well change and improve the next year. The best advice you can follow is:
1) Accumulate sources, dont take any one claim as fact. If theres a negative statement or claim out there, there are probabley others.
2) Look for longevity and consistency. A school, region, city or admin with multiple reports over several years about similar issues from a variety of sources is something you should seriously consider.
3) Consider that much of the negative out there represents the minority. Schools that are truly horrible for all just dont last long. Even the great schools have dissenters, and even at bad schools if theyre still in business they have to be doing something right.
4) This forum and others need participation, thats our power as teachers, we have numbers, and to realize that power our numbers need voices. Thats why some of the bad schools have problems recruiting because they have reputations for doing what they do, we did that.
Were the opposition, the critics to the schools flashy websites, advertising flyers, and sales pitches, were every school is wonderful, and full of rainbows. (Have you ever, ever heard a school or admin say "were horrible, our kids are underachieving brats and im a sociopath to work for"? Never going to happen).
The only issue ill rally raise is that there are admins who do the same thing. Admins who sign a teacher at a fair, then leave them hanging for months only to make some lame claim that they couldnt get the visas or something, and leave a teacher late in the recruiting process with far fewer if any options. This is the real world not a classroom exercise in ethics. Your free to disagree with it (and many people did), but i explore options, all options in discussions on this board.
@Irish Rover
I really dont like posting as multiple aliases, i think readers deserve some aspect of continuity and association. When i post something i want the reader to be able to associate that view or opinion with one person (good or bad). Theres a difference between being anonymous and being ethereal.
I do think there are a number of contributors to this site who have greater depth in specific experiences and more recent information, and I do often defer to them on this board. That said i have 8 years experience in international education and i have a very wide breadth of experience.
@bigfatgit
Not a whole lot to say, and I dont know how you were "libeled". I had to look up who Walter Mitty was, and the answer is just that your wrong, and you dont know what you think you know. Not really interested in convincing you otherwise.
@interteach
It would be misinformation if it was wrong, but many things are true, including that people disagree what is true. We just have different points of view, and derive our conclusions based on different experiences. The vast majority of the information on this site is opinion.
@et..al
To make it short (ive been busier lately) most of the posts on this forum and really any forum, whether they be opinions, discussions, experiences, advice, guidance, all manner of commentary is at best subjective. The truth for one person can easily be fiction for someone else. Its a dynamic world, what might have been bad one year may very well change and improve the next year. The best advice you can follow is:
1) Accumulate sources, dont take any one claim as fact. If theres a negative statement or claim out there, there are probabley others.
2) Look for longevity and consistency. A school, region, city or admin with multiple reports over several years about similar issues from a variety of sources is something you should seriously consider.
3) Consider that much of the negative out there represents the minority. Schools that are truly horrible for all just dont last long. Even the great schools have dissenters, and even at bad schools if theyre still in business they have to be doing something right.
4) This forum and others need participation, thats our power as teachers, we have numbers, and to realize that power our numbers need voices. Thats why some of the bad schools have problems recruiting because they have reputations for doing what they do, we did that.
Were the opposition, the critics to the schools flashy websites, advertising flyers, and sales pitches, were every school is wonderful, and full of rainbows. (Have you ever, ever heard a school or admin say "were horrible, our kids are underachieving brats and im a sociopath to work for"? Never going to happen).
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
Clarification
Dear PsyGuy,
So, just to make sure that I understand this correctly...you are saying that it is okay for teachers to follow your advice because some schools behave in this way? I assume that you would also say that it is okay for schools to follow the same advice...because some teachers may have followed your advice and behaved in this way?
To be honest, I couldn't care a jot whether you actually know what you are writing about when you post...but offering such unethical 'advice' is simply wrong. Please don't do it.
So, just to make sure that I understand this correctly...you are saying that it is okay for teachers to follow your advice because some schools behave in this way? I assume that you would also say that it is okay for schools to follow the same advice...because some teachers may have followed your advice and behaved in this way?
To be honest, I couldn't care a jot whether you actually know what you are writing about when you post...but offering such unethical 'advice' is simply wrong. Please don't do it.
Last edited by lifeisnotsobad on Tue May 01, 2012 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: A reading from the second letter of Psyguy to the newbie
[quote="PsyGuy"] there is no greater affirming and relevant evidence then my own experience.
[/quote]
Wow. Explains a lot.
[/quote]
Wow. Explains a lot.
Comment
I never "tell" anyone to do anything, I explore and discuss options.
So if you had a contract with a school, and then found out your child was diagnosed with aggressive cancer, but the only medical facility available to treat them was 1000km away and you couldnt commute that on a weekly basis you would still honor your contract even if it meant your childs life?
So if you had a contract with a school, and then found out your child was diagnosed with aggressive cancer, but the only medical facility available to treat them was 1000km away and you couldnt commute that on a weekly basis you would still honor your contract even if it meant your childs life?