DODDS Hiring Question

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PsyGuy
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Selection

Post by PsyGuy »

@Wedodude

You have a case of selective reading. You only read what they want to read. Nowhere does it state a teacher is REQUIRED or MUST have a teaching certification. Maybe you will look up the definition of "in lieu of", so moving on.

@jont

It's not senseless to apply at the moment, your application will stay in the database indefinitely, and the less work you have to do for it the better. The first thing I'd recommend is to find out once your transcripts are evaluated if your qualified in SPED, and if your to how many courses and which courses you have to take. Really once that happens experience or not your going to become attractive to a DoDDS school. Experience wise if you can't find a SPED teaching position, then any kind of experience working with SPED children, even outside of a school is going to show a principal you can work with children with disabilities. Of course actual teaching experience would be best. You might also try applying with EDIS as they supply professionals to DoDDS schools and they have a need for early childhood educators.

@ringler

Well in this case the OP is waiting on there state certification, and the question is without it will DODEA still activate there profile, and the answer is yes because a state certification isn't a requirement, and that's what DODEA has done. It might be the lack of the certification and the discounted credit hours but im more inclined to conclude that if anything it's a lack of specific coursework and not just credit hours. DODEA is very selective over what courses they consider SPED courses.

I would agree and I've written before it would be an unusual situation to have the course work, professional education courses, field experience, and praxis exams and NOT get certified, but I can think of a couple scenarios where that might happen. The main one being that historically those in the armed services had access to college courses but not teacher training programs. So you could take all these courses, take the praxis, and even arrange to teach for a year as say a full time substitute, (that's an option IN LIEU OF, student teaching or an internship). I cold also see instances where someone who had the coursework and exam results, and taught a a private school, charter school, or military academy, but never paid the money for a teacher training program would still qualify without being certified. Maybe there exam scores expired, or the university changed the course requirements to complete their certification program, or they just don't want to pay the money. It's unlikely, but possible.

WeDoDude
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

@PsyGuy

Whatever you say buddy.

@ All DoDEA Hopefuls

Here is the process spelled out for you from an HR rep in my area that I emailed yesterday:

1. After you submit your application, HR will review your materials. This can anywhere from 5 days, to 2 months depending on the amount of applications. During this process an HR rep is looking over your transcripts and license. We are not reviewing them, just simply looking them over. After we review your file we will place you in the applicant pool.

2. When a position is offered to CONUS we will send admin a list of all eligible candidates. The amount of files that we send to a principal greatly depends on how the position is coded. If the position is a 0100 (elementary teacher) position we may send over 200 applicants to the principal. Sometimes the positions are combined, for instance elementary teacher and ESL certified. That can reduce the number of qualified applicants as well. This number will also depend greatly on where the applicant is willing to work. If you only selected Europe your chances decrease. If you're willing to teach worldwide, your chances greatly increase.

3. Principals interview the candidates and make a selection. They send us the name of the applicant they have selected and we begin to go through the file and look over their transcripts, and license. We do this before the position is officially offered. Principals cannot offer the position, only HR can after the applicant is certified by us.

4. If the applicant meets the requirements the hiring packet is sent to the applicant. They must return it within 5 working days and include their fingerprint card.

To answer your question about DoDEA requirements of state licensure DoDEA, as you are well aware, licenses their own teachers. We will grant resiprocity to all 50 states and U.S. territory licenses. Whatever you are licensed to teach in the states DoDEA will all licenses you to teach.

In lieu of a state license DoDEA, under special circumstances, will grant you a licenses if you've completed 50% of the coursework. This coursework must include methods courses and student teaching experience. If you have not completed any teaching methods courses, or any student teaching, we will not be able to grant you a DoDEA teaching license.

Hope this helps ****** (name removed). Give me a call at ********* (number removed) if you have any questions. I would still encourage your friend with the SPED coursework to apply. We have a big need for that position in our system, and especially in our area. If you'd like me to take a look at their transcripts I will be better equipped to answer your more specific questions.

V/R
********* (name removed)


Hope that settles this!

ringler24
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

Post by ringler24 »

What I was saying WeDoDude is that technically one could have never applied for a state certificate of any kind and according to the DODDEA website, still be eligible to teach. I clarified by saying I don't know why that would really apply to anyone. I do not claim any insider knowledge on this, just how I read it. What Psy Guy said about Troops to Teachers makes sense as one of the only reasons why you might not obtain an actual State license.

Oh and thanks so much for the email you shared. It is very informative and helpful!

PsyGuy
Posts: 9590
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Location: Northern Europe

Settles

Post by PsyGuy »

It settles it if your position is now that teaching certification is not a requirement, and you now understand the definition of "in lieu of". I really hope you understand now.

5 days is a lot less then months and there just padding there workload. My source has seen most applicants go live in a couple days.

ringler24
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

Post by ringler24 »

Okay not trying to be really annoying but that email says they accept licensure from any state. If I were to get a Special Ed extension to my current elementary Ed certificate would they recognize it even if it was only 9 additional credits instead of 15?

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Sure

Post by PsyGuy »

Sure they would accept it, but you'd still need the 12 credit hours (50%) of the 24 needed, and you'd still need all the specific courses. DODEA/DoDDS bases qualifications on credit hours, the issue is only how many and which ones you need.

WeDoDude
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

No Psyguy, they will only under special circumstances. If you want to work for us, you need a state license. It's plain and simple. In speaking on the phone today with him he said that he can't remember the last time someone was hired without a state teaching license. It might have happened a long time ago, but in recent memory (and he's been in HR with DoDEA for almost 30 years) he can't think of a case where this has happened.

Your best chances at getting HIRED, not CONCIDERED, is to have a license by a state, or U.S. territory. He encourages you to still try if you do not have this, but as he said, it is very unlikely that you will be interviewed as the process to being granted an emergency licensure by DoDEA is long and painful.

He also said that the average for applicants going live is currently 21 days. That's due right now to the back log that they have.

Furthermore, you were incorrect when you said that principals can hire teachers. They can't. He said only HR can. A principal can forwarded their choice on to them, but only HR can offer the position and that happens only have their transcripts and licenses are verified.

So you've been wrong when you've telling people that they can get hired without a license. They can't. It just won't happen because of how many people with the license are applying.

Now stop giving DoDEA advice. You really don't have a clue as to how things work in this organization and I highly doubt that you have a source in the organization other than Google!

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

nice try

Post by PsyGuy »

No your still wrong, not buying your argument.

This isnt about being "competitive" or marketability its not about whats probable. Its about if its possible. Is having a certification REQUIRED, no its not. If it is then im sure you can post the citation from the DODEA website and not your "conversation" (incase your wondering DODEA HQ has been wrong before, people hear different things from them all the time). But you wont and you cant because there is no source that states a state certification is REQUIRED, its an option. A popular and often used one, but not the ONLY path to working with DoDDS, is that simple enough for you.

Principals are the ones that present the candidate to HR, HR approves them and extends the offer. Dont be naive, this is how its done in every major organization, thats why HR exists, because the hiring authority hands off the paper work to HR once the hiring authority (principal) makes the decision. Its the principals decision not HR's. In the past it was a different story, about 2 years ago the focus shifted from HR to the principals. They were dependent on HR providing the candidates, and a principal had to submit three candidates to HR and HR picked which one if any got the position. That doesnt happen now, principals search the database themselves, choose who they interview and who they will hire, HR just approves if they meet the qualifications.

The average to go live on an application is 2-3 days right now (were coming into hiring season) review of certificates is about a week. Transcript review is at about 2 weeks.

No im not wrong you CAN be hired without a teaching license, it just isnt likely. You need to look up the definition of "can".

WeDoDude
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

Alright PsyGuy, just because I'm bored at work with not a thing to do. The following comes from this link: http://dodea.edu/offices/hr/employment/teacher.htm

Becoming a Teacher
So you would like to be a teacher?
Becoming a teacher requires at least a bachelor’s degree, usually related to the subject in which you plan to teach. Additionally, advanced training in the field of teacher education such as the learning process, tests and measurement, philosophy, psychology, social foundations, and methods of teaching and assessing curriculum applicable to the type and level of the position for which you are applying is required.

Reciprocity/State Licensure
Contact your state to determine their routes to Teacher Certification. Most states now offer some form of "alternative" certification, [b][i][u]however to be considered for DoDEA through this program, you must have attained a Professional License.[/u][/i][/b] DoDEA will certify you in a field and level which match the certification in your original state as closely as possible. DoDEA participates in the nationwide reciprocity agreement arranged by the National Association of State Directors of Teacher Education and certifications. (NASDTEC) 50 States’ Certification Requirements is a web site that provides a direct link to the states’ teacher certification divisions.

DoDEA Licensure
Only currently employed DoDEA professional educators are eligible to receive DoDEA Licensure. Specifically, you must have a Bachelor’s degree with a major in the subject you plan to teach, 18 Semester Hours in teacher preparation course work, a student teaching experience, and teacher testing. (See Application Requirements and Information.) Position Categories and Requirements define specific required classes.


This comes from http://dodea.edu/offices/hr/categories/default.htm

Teaching Categories & Requirements
(SPECIAL NOTE: Effective January 2009, DoDEA adopted a new business process for rating teacher applications. Minimum Academic Preparation and Requirements and Information, [b][i][u]to include State endorsements (as DoDEA determines comparable to DoDEA's teacher categories)[/u][/i][/b], AND official transcripts reflecting 50% of the course work in the content area, must be considered with each position, where applicable.)

PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Lovely

Post by PsyGuy »

Lovely, all very nice, not a single one of them says a teaching certificate is required, again please consult:

http://www.dodea.edu/offices/hr/onlinea ... ements.htm

Again pay careful attention to items 4&7, and please look up the definition of "in lieu of".

We can do this all day and repeat ourselves over and over and over again until you can provide a source that states a candidate must have, or is required to have a teaching certificate.

WeDoDude
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

So as you can see PsyGuy, a license is required. In times of great need the organization may waive this requirement, but it isn't likely. To apply the application process asks you to submit your state teaching license. Your application will not become active until you submit all required documents.

And you're wrong again about average time. My CONUS friend applied in December. He did not go active into the system until February. Another friend applied for one of the openings at my school, her application is still pending and she has submitted everything.

And while principals can look at the database of candidates, they can only interview from the list that they are given by HR. I just confirmed this with my admin, who as of today (Wednesday, May 23, 2012) has not received such list and thus cannot begin interviewing. While she can look through the applicant pool, she cannot make contact with any of them until HR has generated her list. Is that clear to you?

Furthermore, I do not believe that you are what you claim to be. You should come with a warning label. A lot of your advice in this thread alone has been wrong. It's because of your wrong advice in this thread that I will never accept, listen to, or take any advice that you offer to any questions that I ask about international schools on this forum.

Consider yourself warned, and do not supply any advice to any thread/question that I ask. It will not be accepted, or taken.

WeDoDude
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

http://www.dodea.edu/offices/hr/onlinea ... ements.htm

I'll leave this conversation with that link. It explains all that you need to have completed.

I am still of the opinion that you will need a license to get hired. In speaking with my admin she said that she would not hire someone from CONUS that was not licensed.

DoDEA also likes 2 years of full-time teaching experience. I do not know if this is a requirement, but again, my principal would not hire someone that doesn't have that as well.

Every admin has their own way of doing things. Apply is all I can say. If you get an interview, get the position and get through HR, congrats and welcome to the club. If not, it only costs you time.

Good luck to all!

PsyGuy
Posts: 9590
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

No

Post by PsyGuy »

No dont see that anywhere, no where does it state a license is required. Im starting to wonder if you know what the word required means. A candidate can either meet the academic preparation listed under item 4 OR provide a state license and 50% of the needed hours, both avenues are valid. Just because a particular admin would not hire someone does NOT mean they would not be qualified. Thats the issue, if you would be qualified or not based on presence or absence of a teaching certificate, and a teaching certificate is NOT required.

Again this isnt about what competitiveness or marketability or whats likely. Its about whats possible and whats required. You have provided nothing that shows a certificate is required.

Your application will be reviewed without a license (as one of the previous posters also indicated) and you can be considered qualified without a license. Whether youd get hired is a different matter entirely.

Admins can access the applicant pool that was my point. Outside of a narrow transfer window admins can interview during the rest of the year. They can access and interview pretty much 10 out of 12 months of the year.

Some applications are more of a priority then others while some can take months many take days. My DODEA source disagrees with your DODEA source, and since mines right I find yours unpersuasive.

For a DoDDS teacher you are very mis/uninformed about DoDDS and DODEA policies and procedures. Youve been wrong about this and many prior posts.

"Consider your words marked"...

WeDoDude
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by WeDoDude »

You don't have a DoDEA source. You didn't even know that we were one organization spread out over 3 different areas. You are spreading lies and misinformation. It's that simple. You want to pretend that you're this well connected international teacher, fine, whatever floats your boat. I for one find you to be a fraud and conartist. And not even a good one.

I just hope people don't take your advice. It hasn't been right once in here.

PsyGuy
Posts: 9590
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

No

Post by PsyGuy »

My source is more informed then yours. I love when people start with the name calling, it means theyre position is too weak to with stand debate.

Again, you didnt know that DoDDS and DDESS have been under DODEA for 20 years.

I hope people will take this discussion and pursue their own research. There are 6 people in DODEA HQ, in Arlington, who "know", and they dont even know but they get to make the decisions.

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