question about teaching credential

redcats
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:59 pm
Location: Los Angeles

question about teaching credential

Post by redcats »

Hi,
I have been teaching for several years in Los Angeles, but for various reasons I won't get into, I haven't finished getting my clear credential. To clarify: In California, you get a preliminary credential first, then have to do two years of "induction" to turn it into a clear credential. Then you have to renew your clear every few years. If you don't finish induction within 5 years of getting the prelim, the prelim expires. I still have 2 years (out of the 5) to get finish my induction, and I have done the first year. The trouble is, I have been working part time and my district won't put me in the induction program unless I am full time. I'm not sure I can find a full-time job in CA--it's really ugly here right now in terms of job searches for people in social science.

Anyway, this is my question:
Would my prelim expiring affect my eligibility to work at international schools?
Let's say I got a job teaching at an international school this year. Would that mean I'd only be able to keep the job for two years, until my credential expires?
Or is what matters that I got credentialed in the first place--do they care about expiration dates?

Thanks!
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: question about teaching credential

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

[quote="redcats"]Hi,
I have been teaching for several years in Los Angeles, but for various reasons I won't get into, I haven't finished getting my clear credential. To clarify: In California, you get a preliminary credential first, then have to do two years of "induction" to turn it into a clear credential. Then you have to renew your clear every few years. If you don't finish induction within 5 years of getting the prelim, the prelim expires. I still have 2 years (out of the 5) to get finish my induction, and I have done the first year. The trouble is, I have been working part time and my district won't put me in the induction program unless I am full time. I'm not sure I can find a full-time job in CA--it's really ugly here right now in terms of job searches for people in social science.

Anyway, this is my question:
Would my prelim expiring affect my eligibility to work at international schools?
Let's say I got a job teaching at an international school this year. Would that mean I'd only be able to keep the job for two years, until my credential expires?
Or is what matters that I got credentialed in the first place--do they care about expiration dates?

Thanks![/quote]

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It depends on the school and the country. In some places, they will consider you "certified" if you are/once were and will not even ask whether you have maintained the certificate.

Other places may require current and active certification for their accredidation and/or visa purposes.

It will put you at a disadvantage in the market place if your certification expires and you have no way of renewing it. You may want to do a search on this forum as there was a discussion about the easiest states to retain certification while overseas. Good luck.
liketotravel
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:58 pm

Post by liketotravel »

I have a California clear which expires in June. My boss told me last week week to renew it ASAP or it would be a problem. Luckily it took ten mintutes and $57 bucks online to take care of it.

I would say the big issue would be when you jumped jobs to another country. That is the beauty of international teaching is you can always upgrade every two years and it would be a shame to be stuck in one place due to cert.
koda
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:31 pm

Re: question about teaching credential

Post by koda »

[quote="redcats"]Hi,


Anyway, this is my question:
Would my prelim expiring affect my eligibility to work at international schools?
Let's say I got a job teaching at an international school this year. Would that mean I'd only be able to keep the job for two years, until my credential expires?
Or is what matters that I got credentialed in the first place--do they care about expiration dates?

Thanks![/quote]

Hi,
I came from California and if your district won't offer you the Induction program b/c you are half time, you could pay for the clear credential and do the program through a University near by you. It would mean you paying for it, versus getting it free through your district, but if would get you the 5 year Clear and then you wouldn't have to worry as it's just paying the fee to renew every 5 years.

I'm only in my first year overseas, but from what I understand, you do need to keep your credentials current.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Post by sid »

You really want to have and maintain an active certification. It'll make it easier to get jobs. After all, you won't just be looking for a job now - you'll probably do it several times over the course of your career.
And point two, no matter what a school might tell you at hiring, if something bad happens, you could find that lack of active certification could be used as a pretext for firing you.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

This has come up on the forum before, i understand your stress and your frustration but dont kid yourself. If your certificate, license, credential whatever its called expires, lapses, is non renewed, suspended for not paying fees, your not a certified teacher, and not having one is going to be a serious disadvantage in finding a job, and even maintaining a job. Your certificate is the key that allows you entry into this profession, without one your not entitled to be in a classroom. I know a certificate doesnt make someone a good teacher, but it makes them a legal one. You cant drive a car in California with an "expired" license, not legally and if you get pulled over your going to get a ticket for not having one. You cant practice medicine, accounting, law, etc without a valid license, and international teaching is a competitive business, not having a legal qualification is going to close a lot of doors for you.

We had to let a teacher go over the winter holiday because her certification had been inactivated, and she couldnt renew it (we hired her back for the remainder of the year as a substitute).

If your planing on going overseas, you need to complete induction, and going back to university is going to be the most practical (though not cheapest) way of accomplishing that.

I switched my certificate to California, so that i wouldnt have to do PD anymore.
flyingrob31
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:31 pm

Post by flyingrob31 »

I got my California Clear Credential several years ago so things may have changed.... I remember that I had to take three courses and they were very easy. I took them through the University of San Diego. I attended the courses in Northern California as USD seem to have satellite locations in many areas. I would certainly look into USD if I were you. I had to have Sacramento State University actually verify everything but I took all the courses through USD.
ChoirGuy
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:43 am
Location: Bangkok

Post by ChoirGuy »

I have a question on NYS certification if anyone has any information...
I actually have a Permanent certificate from 2003, but I know that the requirements have changed since then. Is my permanent certificate still valid? I've been teaching internationally since 1999 and haven't really thought about it. When, and if, I return to teach in the States, will I have to re-certify? OR, is a permanent certificate from NYS ACTUALLY permanent?
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

[quote="ChoirGuy"]I have a question on NYS certification if anyone has any information...
I actually have a Permanent certificate from 2003, but I know that the requirements have changed since then. Is my permanent certificate still valid? I've been teaching internationally since 1999 and haven't really thought about it. When, and if, I return to teach in the States, will I have to re-certify? OR, is a permanent certificate from NYS ACTUALLY permanent?[/quote]

--------------------------------------
You will really need to check with the DOE in NY. They are incredibly demanding and nitpicky at times. Maybe you will be in luck as being grandfathered in, but I could not believe what they wanted me to do to gain even initial certification in NY (as my FL 5 year professional was not nearly good enough for them).
Mathman
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:18 am

Post by Mathman »

Certification is more of a visa issue. If you have completed the appropriate degrees and can satisfy a school that you are the teacher for them, then it should be fine. I don't have certification because I do not work in Australia. Such is their laws and I will never get certified unless I go back and work there (unlikely). However, I have a letter from one of the certifying board stating that this is their law and that if I returned for employment,I would be certified. Two embassies read the letter and accepted it as valid certification.

The key point is if you can be certified in the country that you are about to work in. Not that your credentials at home are 'up to date'

If you were inactive from the education industry for several years, it will probably be an issue.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Post by sid »

Mathman hits some valid points, but visa only covers part of the issue.

Schools' policies usually have some bits in there about teachers needing to be 'qualified'. Different schools can define that differently. Many American schools define it as having active US certification. Other schools, US-based or otherwise, have different requirements, such as having a teaching degree. Rules may be different for different nationalities because some countries don't even issue certification. Sweden for example - you get a teaching degree (which includes doing practice teaching) and that makes you qualified, but there is no certificate in the same way as there is in the US. So any school employing a Swede has to accept that they will not have a certificate. Which is why some schools define 'qualified' as 'legally qualified to teach in their home country'. All of which has nothing to do with visas - this is what the school requires before they can hire you.

The visa thing is separate. Some countries, not all, require that anyone employed as a teacher must prove they are qualified to teach before the country will issue a work permit. Again, the rules are different depending on where the person comes from - they cannot require a Swede to have a teaching certificate, since those don't exist in Sweden. Mathman, as an Australian, had to prove not that he had a certificate (an impossibility), but that he had fulfilled all the requirements except working at home, a technicality that governments don't care about since it doesn't have anything to do with teaching. As an American, these countries would require you to have active US certification, since there is nothing stopping you from having it.

So, both for getting hired (school requirements) and for getting a visa (country requirements), being American means that you should maintain your certification if you want to keep all your options open. Lose the certificate, and many schools/countries cannot even consider you.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

What they say

Post by PsyGuy »

The only people that can answer that are at the NYS DOE, you can check your certification at the site below:

http://eservices.nysed.gov/teach/certhe ... on=INQUIRY

Whatever it says is whats going to matter. If it says you have a "permanent" certificate then your fine. Descriptions such as "expired, suspended, invalid" etc all mean *your not certified*.

What constitutes certification/licensed/credentialed/qualified is very region dependent. In Canada a B.Ed, degree IS the certification. Dont let yourself be deluded though with long explanations. Either someone is qualified or they arent. You could say well i have a B.Ed in Teaching and in Sweden thats what you need to be qualified, so if Sweden considers me qualified, then based on having that degree everyone else has to accept im qualified as well. Every country has a process in addition to and aside from simply graduating with a degree to determine (even if its just an application process) who is "fit" to be a classroom teacher.

Lastly, dont let passport nationality limit your point of view, there would be nothing wrong, improper, or invalid about an american obtaining a teaching degree at a university in Stockholm and be required to return to the states to get an "american" teaching certificate from a state to be a legal teacher. There is also nothing that prohibits an american teacher from applying for a teaching credential in Canada, and working on that credential. An brit could just as easily apply and complete a certification program in the USA, as opposed to a PGCE, and be just as qualified a teacher (and you dont have to do QTS).

Anyone who has an excuse why they dont have a valid credential, is just that, making excuses. When i ask "Do you have a government issued teaching credential?" and they say "Yes, but..." nothing after the but matters, and yes really means no, because if the answer was really yes, then you wouldnt need the but.
ChoirGuy
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:43 am
Location: Bangkok

Post by ChoirGuy »

Thanks psyguy...at least I now know that I'm permanently certified and don't need to anything more. It's amazing to me that I have never taught in the States and yet I'm permanently certified to teach in NYS! (not that I'm complaining!)
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

:)

Post by PsyGuy »

So how did that happen, if you dont mind me asking? NYS is pretty picky and a permanent certification is an advance level certificate.
ChoirGuy
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:43 am
Location: Bangkok

Post by ChoirGuy »

To psyguy, I taught for two years in Taipei (then, the Taipei British School) using my provisional certificate, obtained in 1998. Realizing that it expired after 5 years, I started asking NYS about how to get a permanent certificate if I was teaching overseas. All I had to do was complete two online courses - violence prevention and a second one - and get a letter from my school ( which they gladly provided) saying that I had been teaching there continuously and full- time for 2 years. I was granted a Permanent Certificate to teach Music shortly thereafter and it is still on their system as of tonight.
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