Anyone working on their doctorate?
Anyone working on their doctorate?
Anyone here working on their doctorate? Any thoughts? Any recommendations?
How long did it take?
Around 4 1/2 years to complete. But that was strongly impacted by my dissertation project- which needed about 4-5 months to get data. Looking back, since I was collecting data in a school, I could have started collecting data sooner- and shortened that timeline. I should have been more organized, and started thinking about my dissertation much sooner.
Did you go with online or at the physical campus?
I did a hybrid program- and I would guess that most programs have both brick and mortar and online options. Once you get into the dissertation phase, you are on your own anyway, and possibly collaborating with people anywhere. In my personal situation, I'm competing with others who have a specific certification, a doctorate and specific experience. The school is less important than the other two.
If you had it to do over, what would you do differently?
I did a PhD to study a specific, focused topic. It did not include certification. I could have done a doctorate, which would have included certification, but been more general in nature. I should have done the doctorate in hindsight.
In terms of the process, I should have started thinking about data collection sooner and been more focused during the classwork phase. I should also have saved all the statistics classes until the end cycle of my classwork. I took the three quantitative classes at the start, then promptly forgot most of what I knew. I had to relearn almost everything for my dissertation. Plus, two of my committee members were Stats profs. They were very tough on me and the source of many rewrites.
Start your dissertation work during your classwork. You'll probably have a class on writing a lit review. Instead of doing a 'fake' one, actually start on your review in class.
Finally, before you start your classwork, purchase and learn a good bibliographic software package; Endnote (pc/mac) and Bookends (mac) are two examples. You'll generate a lot of information and resources during your classwork and you'll need a way to organize and then use in your writing. I used a combination of Scrivener, Endnote and Evernote to get organized. Papers for OSX is fantastic and I now use it to organize all my papers and studies.
Whether its financially a good decision, that's up to you to decide. It cost me over $50k for the program. Once done it opened doors to positions and I took one that gave me a $20k annual raise. More importantly I opened doors to jobs I'm interested in.
Around 4 1/2 years to complete. But that was strongly impacted by my dissertation project- which needed about 4-5 months to get data. Looking back, since I was collecting data in a school, I could have started collecting data sooner- and shortened that timeline. I should have been more organized, and started thinking about my dissertation much sooner.
Did you go with online or at the physical campus?
I did a hybrid program- and I would guess that most programs have both brick and mortar and online options. Once you get into the dissertation phase, you are on your own anyway, and possibly collaborating with people anywhere. In my personal situation, I'm competing with others who have a specific certification, a doctorate and specific experience. The school is less important than the other two.
If you had it to do over, what would you do differently?
I did a PhD to study a specific, focused topic. It did not include certification. I could have done a doctorate, which would have included certification, but been more general in nature. I should have done the doctorate in hindsight.
In terms of the process, I should have started thinking about data collection sooner and been more focused during the classwork phase. I should also have saved all the statistics classes until the end cycle of my classwork. I took the three quantitative classes at the start, then promptly forgot most of what I knew. I had to relearn almost everything for my dissertation. Plus, two of my committee members were Stats profs. They were very tough on me and the source of many rewrites.
Start your dissertation work during your classwork. You'll probably have a class on writing a lit review. Instead of doing a 'fake' one, actually start on your review in class.
Finally, before you start your classwork, purchase and learn a good bibliographic software package; Endnote (pc/mac) and Bookends (mac) are two examples. You'll generate a lot of information and resources during your classwork and you'll need a way to organize and then use in your writing. I used a combination of Scrivener, Endnote and Evernote to get organized. Papers for OSX is fantastic and I now use it to organize all my papers and studies.
Whether its financially a good decision, that's up to you to decide. It cost me over $50k for the program. Once done it opened doors to positions and I took one that gave me a $20k annual raise. More importantly I opened doors to jobs I'm interested in.
My doctorate consisted solely of my dissertation. It was a lot of work, and it was all on my own the whole time. You really have to be organized, and the self motivated type. There are no artificial deadlines, and I know friends in the states that worked 10 years on their doctorates, some stayed ABD forever.
Unless you want to be a school head a doctorate isnt really much help, and can actually be a hinderance getting a classroom teacher position. "If you have a doctorate why do you want to teach K-12?" The job market for university faculty positions is so fierce if you didnt come from a top school, or havent been publishing fiercely, your basically going to get little more then adjunct work, or part time at a community college. The view by international schools is that your really just hanging out in K-12 for the paycheck.
If your planing on staying a teacher the pay isnt that great either, some schools will really reward you for having a doctorate, some schools give you a slight bump on the pay scale and some dont even recognize a doctorate anymore then they do a masters degree. It would be difficult to make the investment back if you werent planing on going into administration.
The best advice I have is dont go into a doctoral program not knowing what you want to research. Really there is nothing to keep you NOW from determining a research question, and focus. Do a lit review, then start looking at schools, you will be a stronger applicant if you can show them what youve done already, and your research proposal is already strongly written. It will also help you focus on which schools to apply to, because your going to need a faculty chair whos research interests are parallel to your own. Youll save money too, if you can go right from committee formation, to IRB, to data collection.
Keep in mind where your going to get your subjects from, using your own students and school as resources makes the search for subjects a LOT easier. Otherwise your basically begging others for cooperation (its the only thing i would have done differently).
Unless you want to be a school head a doctorate isnt really much help, and can actually be a hinderance getting a classroom teacher position. "If you have a doctorate why do you want to teach K-12?" The job market for university faculty positions is so fierce if you didnt come from a top school, or havent been publishing fiercely, your basically going to get little more then adjunct work, or part time at a community college. The view by international schools is that your really just hanging out in K-12 for the paycheck.
If your planing on staying a teacher the pay isnt that great either, some schools will really reward you for having a doctorate, some schools give you a slight bump on the pay scale and some dont even recognize a doctorate anymore then they do a masters degree. It would be difficult to make the investment back if you werent planing on going into administration.
The best advice I have is dont go into a doctoral program not knowing what you want to research. Really there is nothing to keep you NOW from determining a research question, and focus. Do a lit review, then start looking at schools, you will be a stronger applicant if you can show them what youve done already, and your research proposal is already strongly written. It will also help you focus on which schools to apply to, because your going to need a faculty chair whos research interests are parallel to your own. Youll save money too, if you can go right from committee formation, to IRB, to data collection.
Keep in mind where your going to get your subjects from, using your own students and school as resources makes the search for subjects a LOT easier. Otherwise your basically begging others for cooperation (its the only thing i would have done differently).
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liketotravel
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:58 pm
I would agree that if you're going to remain a classroom teacher, than a doctorate would not provide enough financial incentive- but perhaps that is not your objective.
However doctorate's are not only valuable just for school heads. If you are interested in being a director; Dir of Tech, Student Services, Curriculum, Business or Principal, than it can work to your advantage. Additionally, some large schools have department heads that are teaching positions, but are paid additional stipends (sometimes considerable), and enjoy leadership benefits. These positions sometimes require a doctorate to be competitive. From a purely financial comparison, a doctorate can pay off over the long term.
However doctorate's are not only valuable just for school heads. If you are interested in being a director; Dir of Tech, Student Services, Curriculum, Business or Principal, than it can work to your advantage. Additionally, some large schools have department heads that are teaching positions, but are paid additional stipends (sometimes considerable), and enjoy leadership benefits. These positions sometimes require a doctorate to be competitive. From a purely financial comparison, a doctorate can pay off over the long term.
Unlikely
Yeah there are other admin roles you can do with a doctorate, but you can just as easily do them with a masters, and most of them dont have doctorates. Usually when I see someone with a doctorate at a school its usually the head or a principal.
As far as junior admin roles, the time spent getting the doctorate would be better spent building experience leading in that field. Newly minted doctorates (myself included) tend to come out with a lot of abstract theoretical knowledge, that doesnt translate well in an applied practical setting. Lastly unless your going into research or really intend to publish the research skills arent much use. A working admin with a doctorate is unlikely to create anything as vast or in depth as their dissertation was. Multi year studies just arent very useful locally, and are unlikely to produce a justifiable payoff in terms of findings.
Im not saying id not have done my doctorate if i could do it over, but if its for strict practical/economic reasons, its not worth it unless your goal is to become a senior admin, researcher, or professor.
As far as junior admin roles, the time spent getting the doctorate would be better spent building experience leading in that field. Newly minted doctorates (myself included) tend to come out with a lot of abstract theoretical knowledge, that doesnt translate well in an applied practical setting. Lastly unless your going into research or really intend to publish the research skills arent much use. A working admin with a doctorate is unlikely to create anything as vast or in depth as their dissertation was. Multi year studies just arent very useful locally, and are unlikely to produce a justifiable payoff in terms of findings.
Im not saying id not have done my doctorate if i could do it over, but if its for strict practical/economic reasons, its not worth it unless your goal is to become a senior admin, researcher, or professor.
"Yeah there are other admin roles you can do with a doctorate, but you can just as easily do them with a masters, and most of them dont have doctorates."
True, however those with doctorates can be more competitive when it comes to applying for jobs. Whether you can get away with a Master versus a Doctorate is another question.
"As far as junior admin roles, the time spent getting the doctorate would be better spent building experience leading in that field. Newly minted doctorates (myself included) tend to come out with a lot of abstract theoretical knowledge, that doesnt translate well in an applied practical setting.
Getting experience and a doctore are not mutually exclusive. You can do both and both can be beneficial. In terms of newly minted doctorates and abstract knowledge- that depends on the program and dissertation. You can come out with practical understanding and tools that are useful in a practical setting. There are programs that allow one to study an area that is directly applicable to what you are doing now.
Those in junior admin positions that are developing experience as well as working toward or having obtained doctorates bring both experience and focused knowledge to the table.
When applying for jobs having both is beneficial.
True, however those with doctorates can be more competitive when it comes to applying for jobs. Whether you can get away with a Master versus a Doctorate is another question.
"As far as junior admin roles, the time spent getting the doctorate would be better spent building experience leading in that field. Newly minted doctorates (myself included) tend to come out with a lot of abstract theoretical knowledge, that doesnt translate well in an applied practical setting.
Getting experience and a doctore are not mutually exclusive. You can do both and both can be beneficial. In terms of newly minted doctorates and abstract knowledge- that depends on the program and dissertation. You can come out with practical understanding and tools that are useful in a practical setting. There are programs that allow one to study an area that is directly applicable to what you are doing now.
Those in junior admin positions that are developing experience as well as working toward or having obtained doctorates bring both experience and focused knowledge to the table.
When applying for jobs having both is beneficial.
Reply
Again in a senior admin role (head/principal) a doctorate would more often be useful, out side that its just not my experience that it is. There is only so much theoretical knowledge you can apply in a classroom or in a school anyway. Nothing in my dissertation or preparing it has had any practical use for me. Even if you did a doctorate involving coursework you can only use so much "leadership" knowledge before its just repetition and too abstract to be useful.
If you have a senior admin career track in mind a doctorate would be useful, otherwise its not, and honestly when i was looking for a teaching classroom position the message i got was "I was over qualified for the classroom".
If you have a senior admin career track in mind a doctorate would be useful, otherwise its not, and honestly when i was looking for a teaching classroom position the message i got was "I was over qualified for the classroom".
Re: Reply
[quote="PsyGuy"]Again in a senior admin role (head/principal) a doctorate would more often be useful, out side that its just not my experience that it is. There is only so much theoretical knowledge you can apply in a classroom or in a school anyway. Nothing in my dissertation or preparing it has had any practical use for me.
If you have a senior admin career track in mind a doctorate would be useful, otherwise its not, and honestly when i was looking for a teaching classroom position the message i got was "I was over qualified for the classroom".[/quote]
Then it sounds like the program you did was the issue. The employees we have going through doctoral programs now have a direct connection to what they are doing both in the classroom, and possible junior admin positions they might fill. By junior admin I'm referring to department heads, Directors of Technology, Social Service Directors, Purchasing Managers and similar.
The employees that I'm familiar with, and the programs that I have both been involved with and gone through have allowed their student to focus on what they are doing in the classroom. Their studies and dissertation was practical and focused.
A dissertation is not a replacement for practical experience, however it is complimentary. And I do believe it is of value to those who are not school heads.
Sure, it might predispose some principals to see a teacher who has a doctorate as being over-priced or over-qualified. However if the teacher is looking down the road to increase their leadership position and/or move up, then it is of value.
If you have a senior admin career track in mind a doctorate would be useful, otherwise its not, and honestly when i was looking for a teaching classroom position the message i got was "I was over qualified for the classroom".[/quote]
Then it sounds like the program you did was the issue. The employees we have going through doctoral programs now have a direct connection to what they are doing both in the classroom, and possible junior admin positions they might fill. By junior admin I'm referring to department heads, Directors of Technology, Social Service Directors, Purchasing Managers and similar.
The employees that I'm familiar with, and the programs that I have both been involved with and gone through have allowed their student to focus on what they are doing in the classroom. Their studies and dissertation was practical and focused.
A dissertation is not a replacement for practical experience, however it is complimentary. And I do believe it is of value to those who are not school heads.
Sure, it might predispose some principals to see a teacher who has a doctorate as being over-priced or over-qualified. However if the teacher is looking down the road to increase their leadership position and/or move up, then it is of value.
I'm kinda leaning towards the EdD, but am open. I mainly want to get the doctorate because I really do like learning, but I want something to show for it since I am - not the main reason I want the degree, but it doesn't hurt.
I would still want to teach. I know I would not be a good admin and have no desire to do so. Department head maybe, but still teaching. Thanks for the feedback. The stat idea is particularly good. Thanks!
I would still want to teach. I know I would not be a good admin and have no desire to do so. Department head maybe, but still teaching. Thanks for the feedback. The stat idea is particularly good. Thanks!
Well
An Ed.D would be a better selection then a Ph.D. or other type of pure research focused degree. A focus in C&I would be better then Ed.Lead. I take it your in Special Ed by your screen name, have you thought of something more "clinical" like maybe a Psy.D. or Psy.S. program? An Ed.D. just practically screams "Admin".
Spelling/grammar
Personally I am very disappointed that PhDs are even awarded to people who repeatedly use "your" where it should be "you're" and others who think "complimentary" is interchangeable with "complementary". No wonder tertiary institutions are in trouble worldwide.
Sincerely,
Pedant
Sincerely,
Pedant