No im right now, as I was back then as well. You were wrong back in January about recruitment and your wrong now about accreditation. You always show your not right and dont know anything when you attack the person and not the argument.
I've looked at the protocol standards for CIS, they revolve around confirming that what the school says it does is what the school is doing, again rubber stamping by an outside auditor. Whats there to compare too? CIS doesnt have their own curriculum, doesnt have an assessment and doesnt offer a credential. Since your so uninformed on the subject, you can read a little about the process here:
http://www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=14
"The underlying principle of this process is that a school will be evaluated in terms of its own Guiding Statements. (i.e. Does the school deliver what it claims to deliver to its students?)"
IB schools dont need the accreditation, like many schools (most of them the top schools) they collect accreditations as a symbol of prestige, but IB schools dont need any other accreditation (including CIS) to offer an IB program. A school doesnt need CIS or any other accreditation to be a authorized.
When you look at accreditation in its basic form: its the comparison of a schools performance against an outside standard, and all the schools that share that accreditation meet the same standard. CIS doesnt provide that they compare the schools performance against the schools OWN self defined standard. That not really accreditation (and just because you can use the term doesnt make it true). Sure CIS accreditation can lead to school imporvement, because when you have an outside pair of eyes looking at your organization and they say "were not seeing what you say your doing" and you fix that, thats school improvement, but it has little to do with accreditation as far as CIS in concerned.
Now a real accreditation/authorization program has actual consequences if a school doesnt comply with their standards. Schools dont close down or go out of business if they loose CIS accreditation. If a school looses CIS accreditation you know what happens, they have to take the logo off their web page, other then that nothing happens.
Your just spreading propaganda and cheerleading, as a shill for your pet organization (you must have some vested interest, since your an admin). No one in international education takes CIS seriously, they are a vanity organization of consultants that rubber stamps the ideas of schools that pay their fees.
Accreditation
Arguments about CIS aside, thank you for the information listing different accreditation. That's exactly what I was looking for.
The question remains, though, how much does it matter long term? One of the two schools mentioned is sending us an offer this evening. As I mentioned before, we've done the research, talked to other teachers there, and we have no qualms about the school. It has a good academic reputation. Whether we accept the offer will come down to the package.
The question is if there is any stigma working for a school that is only accredited by the Ministry of Education? It doesn't matter to us, but we're wondering if it will matter 3 years down the road when we're thinking about moving to another international school. We'd like to do this for many years.
The question remains, though, how much does it matter long term? One of the two schools mentioned is sending us an offer this evening. As I mentioned before, we've done the research, talked to other teachers there, and we have no qualms about the school. It has a good academic reputation. Whether we accept the offer will come down to the package.
The question is if there is any stigma working for a school that is only accredited by the Ministry of Education? It doesn't matter to us, but we're wondering if it will matter 3 years down the road when we're thinking about moving to another international school. We'd like to do this for many years.
First of all I have to say that Psyguy does a tremendous job of looking stuff up on the internet from his home in Texas.
How do we know he often does not have direct knowledge of events, circumstances, schools, etc? He gets part of the idea but misses parts of the picture. Does CIS require a school to use the CIS curriculum? No, why not? So CIS must not require a curriculum based upon some sort of "official standards" - right?
Wrong. That's where he missed the link because he is not there. CIS does not have standards, but does require you to follow some sort of set of standards, whether it's Common Core, or state standards (or a national curriculum). CIS does not just say, "Okay guys, write some stuff down and we'll give our okay if you follow it." That is just plain stupid. That would mean that a school could write down, "We promise to lie, cheat, and steal our way to a substandard education." According to Psyguy, CIS would accredit them if they followed their plan. Again he isn't there so he misses that part of the picture. Second, I can assure you that the Regional Accreditation agencies do team with CIS and follow the CIS lead and recommendations.
Does a school have to create a plan? Of course (he gets that from the website), but the plan has to be based upon some sort of realistic assessment of the people the school is serving (not on the website so he missed it). This is done in America as well - it would have to be as colleges and schools are in different sections of the country, serving different populations, with different goals in mind (say an artsy school versus an engineering school, or a community college versus a huge state university).
Here is the big part of "he doesn't get it", accreditation is a comparison of a school against standards. Just told you the school needs to be following some set of standards. It's certainly not a comparison of school quality - Harvard and North by Southwest in the Eastern Southern State University. According to Psyguy that state school doesn't compare favorably and it is just a rubber stamped process. The school should lose it's accreditation. Really?
We are going through the MSA/CIS accreditation now. Psyguy is back in Texas, I mean Australia, no I mean Denmark, no I really meant Northern Europe.
How do we know he often does not have direct knowledge of events, circumstances, schools, etc? He gets part of the idea but misses parts of the picture. Does CIS require a school to use the CIS curriculum? No, why not? So CIS must not require a curriculum based upon some sort of "official standards" - right?
Wrong. That's where he missed the link because he is not there. CIS does not have standards, but does require you to follow some sort of set of standards, whether it's Common Core, or state standards (or a national curriculum). CIS does not just say, "Okay guys, write some stuff down and we'll give our okay if you follow it." That is just plain stupid. That would mean that a school could write down, "We promise to lie, cheat, and steal our way to a substandard education." According to Psyguy, CIS would accredit them if they followed their plan. Again he isn't there so he misses that part of the picture. Second, I can assure you that the Regional Accreditation agencies do team with CIS and follow the CIS lead and recommendations.
Does a school have to create a plan? Of course (he gets that from the website), but the plan has to be based upon some sort of realistic assessment of the people the school is serving (not on the website so he missed it). This is done in America as well - it would have to be as colleges and schools are in different sections of the country, serving different populations, with different goals in mind (say an artsy school versus an engineering school, or a community college versus a huge state university).
Here is the big part of "he doesn't get it", accreditation is a comparison of a school against standards. Just told you the school needs to be following some set of standards. It's certainly not a comparison of school quality - Harvard and North by Southwest in the Eastern Southern State University. According to Psyguy that state school doesn't compare favorably and it is just a rubber stamped process. The school should lose it's accreditation. Really?
We are going through the MSA/CIS accreditation now. Psyguy is back in Texas, I mean Australia, no I mean Denmark, no I really meant Northern Europe.
Last edited by specialed on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Again
Im nowhere near texas, but keeping thinking that.
I can assure you the regional accreditation agencies could care less what CIS thinks or recommends.
Yes, schools use assessments (water is wet too), but CIS doesnt HAVE an assessment or examination. Yes schools choose or create a curriculum, but they dont need CISs accreditation to use one.
So far you havent said anything I havent said. A school needs a curriculum, but all CIS does is verify the school is teaching the curriculum the school says it is. All they are verifying is that the school has an assessment and is using it.
CIS accreditation is vanity accreditation. The standards the school is measured by are standards the school chooses or creates.
Without CIS accreditation, a school would not be authorized to offer a CIS curriculum, oh wait they dont have a curriculum.
Well then without CIS accreditation the stusdents cant take CIS examinations, oh wait they dont have a prescribed assessment.
Well then without CIS accreditation the school cant issue CIS diplomas, oh wait they dont have a credential.
So to review, what happens if a school doesnt have CIS accreditation or losses it.... Nothing.
I can assure you the regional accreditation agencies could care less what CIS thinks or recommends.
Yes, schools use assessments (water is wet too), but CIS doesnt HAVE an assessment or examination. Yes schools choose or create a curriculum, but they dont need CISs accreditation to use one.
So far you havent said anything I havent said. A school needs a curriculum, but all CIS does is verify the school is teaching the curriculum the school says it is. All they are verifying is that the school has an assessment and is using it.
CIS accreditation is vanity accreditation. The standards the school is measured by are standards the school chooses or creates.
Without CIS accreditation, a school would not be authorized to offer a CIS curriculum, oh wait they dont have a curriculum.
Well then without CIS accreditation the stusdents cant take CIS examinations, oh wait they dont have a prescribed assessment.
Well then without CIS accreditation the school cant issue CIS diplomas, oh wait they dont have a credential.
So to review, what happens if a school doesnt have CIS accreditation or losses it.... Nothing.
Long Term
@alia
How much does it mean long term. You have two schools that are locally accredited in china, one offers an IGCSE program. What curriculum are these schools delivering, is it a chinese curriculum, or their imitation of a western one?
Well a couple issues, first you may have issues renewing your certification if you work at a non accredited school. I dont know what your states rules are about that (you may not be able to count any PD you complete there). That said they may not care, and if they do they may not check.
Second, the IGCSE experience will make you more marketable. IB experience would be much better. Your just not going to really grow much professionally or in marketability (having ANY international experience is better then none, but in 2 years your resume isnt going to "offer" anything to a better school) but thats not an important issue for you.
Third, I dont remember if you said you had kids, but if they were attending the school they may not get any credits, or loose credits. There might not be a lot of value of a diploma or certificate (outside of IGCSE). IGCSE is not really considered a 6th form credential or A levels, its the USA equivalent of a GED, and is a an age level qualification for 16 year olds.
All that aside though its just a job. Its a school you provide professional services for and they pay you. As long as you have a plan to renew your teaching certificate, there arent really any unforeseen complications that you havent already said your fine with. Lots of teachers start out at locally accredited schools with no ill consequences. You could work at a completely unaccredited school and it wouldnt be a career killer.
How much does it mean long term. You have two schools that are locally accredited in china, one offers an IGCSE program. What curriculum are these schools delivering, is it a chinese curriculum, or their imitation of a western one?
Well a couple issues, first you may have issues renewing your certification if you work at a non accredited school. I dont know what your states rules are about that (you may not be able to count any PD you complete there). That said they may not care, and if they do they may not check.
Second, the IGCSE experience will make you more marketable. IB experience would be much better. Your just not going to really grow much professionally or in marketability (having ANY international experience is better then none, but in 2 years your resume isnt going to "offer" anything to a better school) but thats not an important issue for you.
Third, I dont remember if you said you had kids, but if they were attending the school they may not get any credits, or loose credits. There might not be a lot of value of a diploma or certificate (outside of IGCSE). IGCSE is not really considered a 6th form credential or A levels, its the USA equivalent of a GED, and is a an age level qualification for 16 year olds.
All that aside though its just a job. Its a school you provide professional services for and they pay you. As long as you have a plan to renew your teaching certificate, there arent really any unforeseen complications that you havent already said your fine with. Lots of teachers start out at locally accredited schools with no ill consequences. You could work at a completely unaccredited school and it wouldnt be a career killer.
You don't know what you are talking about. My school is currently going through a combined MSA/CIS accreditation - they are teaming together with one set of evaluators. What don't you understand about that? Get off of the http://texas.teachers.net/ site for a moment and look it up. You can go back to the Texas site after you look up the combined CIS/MSA deal.
CIS accreditation is not meaningless, it's actually quite useful for students who may look at going to universities in Europe. I think IB is better, but not all students are IB material or want to go that route.
CIS also looks at the curriculum. Is it rigorous, does it meet with what the school is trying to accomplish? I know you have worked at language schools, but this isn't the same. I am not saying what you are saying. You are saying that anything goes as long as that is their curriculum. It isn't that easy. How would I know? I know because we are going through the process. I highly doubt schools go around collecting accreditations. Why wouldn't they get all of the regional ones then? Do you realize how much work it is putting together the stuff for accreditation? That's sort of like going around and collecting BA's in Elem Education. After one, they assume you know what you are doing. Something different, yes, but why collect the same type of accreditation? Doesn't make any financial sense and the parents do not know of all these "bodies" anyway. No, and I'm not sure looking it up on Google is going to tell you all that. I know that looking info up on the internet, Search, IBO, etc. makes you seem smart, but why fake it? Are you that insecure about yourself? You don't have to know everything. I actually know very little, in the scheme of life, and I'm okay with it. I don't need to impress anyone. I actually feel very inadequate in math (I'm going to take more courses in it). I don't need to go on a math BBS and answer questions by looking it up on Wolfram Alpha to pretend I'm a math genius at a university.
I get having an opinion on how rigorous you think the process is, but I'm not sure you can look all that up on the internet and make an informed decision - you feel as if you can.
I forgot to add that regional accrediting agencies do not offer exams, or diplomas either - they must be shams right? Can you say rubberstamp? They also do not provide off-the-shelf curriculums. Oh, boy.... Rubberstamps! They don't offer diplomas? RUBBERSTAMPS I say!!!
CIS accreditation is not meaningless, it's actually quite useful for students who may look at going to universities in Europe. I think IB is better, but not all students are IB material or want to go that route.
CIS also looks at the curriculum. Is it rigorous, does it meet with what the school is trying to accomplish? I know you have worked at language schools, but this isn't the same. I am not saying what you are saying. You are saying that anything goes as long as that is their curriculum. It isn't that easy. How would I know? I know because we are going through the process. I highly doubt schools go around collecting accreditations. Why wouldn't they get all of the regional ones then? Do you realize how much work it is putting together the stuff for accreditation? That's sort of like going around and collecting BA's in Elem Education. After one, they assume you know what you are doing. Something different, yes, but why collect the same type of accreditation? Doesn't make any financial sense and the parents do not know of all these "bodies" anyway. No, and I'm not sure looking it up on Google is going to tell you all that. I know that looking info up on the internet, Search, IBO, etc. makes you seem smart, but why fake it? Are you that insecure about yourself? You don't have to know everything. I actually know very little, in the scheme of life, and I'm okay with it. I don't need to impress anyone. I actually feel very inadequate in math (I'm going to take more courses in it). I don't need to go on a math BBS and answer questions by looking it up on Wolfram Alpha to pretend I'm a math genius at a university.
I get having an opinion on how rigorous you think the process is, but I'm not sure you can look all that up on the internet and make an informed decision - you feel as if you can.
I forgot to add that regional accrediting agencies do not offer exams, or diplomas either - they must be shams right? Can you say rubberstamp? They also do not provide off-the-shelf curriculums. Oh, boy.... Rubberstamps! They don't offer diplomas? RUBBERSTAMPS I say!!!
Mr Angry or Mr Psy
I know this is difficult, but please read again what I wrote:
There is NO connection, relationship, understanding or anything else between CIS and IGCSE. The latter is the international version of the UK GCSE. It doesn't accredit schools - it authorizes them to teach their program and assess students using its examinations. The IB is exactly the same - it has no accrediting role. It authorizes schools to use the PYP, MYP or IBD - or all three.
CIS, meanwhile, is a longstanding player in the world of Accreditation and is the only international arbiter of school performance. WASC, NEASC, MSA et al are domestic US accrediting agencies with relatively small international divisions. You will often see schools that have joint accreditation CIS/WASC, CIS/NEASC etc. In such cases, the dominant player is CIS whose protocol is used. (In fact, NEASC claims co-authorship of the CIS protocol, but all the work is done by CIS.)
These are facts and aren't in dispute by serious educators - not a category to which you belong, I know.
CIS, meanwhile, is an accrediting agency solely accepted by US universities and undergoes the same "Accrediting" process as NEASC/WASC/MSA etc in order for it to act in this way. In other words, an international school with just CIS Accreditation would have no problem getting its students into a US college. That is one of the benefits of CIS Accreditation. The most important part of the process, though, is that accreditation helps schools become better at what they do. That is why so many schools around the world pay the money to join the organisation.
Your statement that when CIS works with MSA it is effectively the "local (junior) contractor" is complete nonsense and on its own is a clear indication of your ignorance of anything to do with this subject. In any joint accreditation, it is the CIS protocol that is used.
And it's hard not to resort to personal attacks when you dominate the airways in the way you do. Your claim to understanding the recruitment side of international education is based on your own attempts to get work and - so you say - your effort to scam your way into SEARCH in Australia as a secret recruiter. Not many people believe you did that, so you are either a liar or, just as bad, a cheapskate cheat. If it's the latter, then your school has even less integrity than you do.
And here you are again, spouting off about CIS and accreditation when you aren't in an accredited school, have never been on an accreditation team and likely never will. I've seen your resume on the SEARCH site, so I know how thin your experience is. Facts are facts, Mr Psy, and despite your 20 certifications from Texas, you are working in a low-level, low-performing school and seem to be compensating for your empty career by fulfilling yourself in cyber space. Have you ever thought about seeing a counselor?
There is NO connection, relationship, understanding or anything else between CIS and IGCSE. The latter is the international version of the UK GCSE. It doesn't accredit schools - it authorizes them to teach their program and assess students using its examinations. The IB is exactly the same - it has no accrediting role. It authorizes schools to use the PYP, MYP or IBD - or all three.
CIS, meanwhile, is a longstanding player in the world of Accreditation and is the only international arbiter of school performance. WASC, NEASC, MSA et al are domestic US accrediting agencies with relatively small international divisions. You will often see schools that have joint accreditation CIS/WASC, CIS/NEASC etc. In such cases, the dominant player is CIS whose protocol is used. (In fact, NEASC claims co-authorship of the CIS protocol, but all the work is done by CIS.)
These are facts and aren't in dispute by serious educators - not a category to which you belong, I know.
CIS, meanwhile, is an accrediting agency solely accepted by US universities and undergoes the same "Accrediting" process as NEASC/WASC/MSA etc in order for it to act in this way. In other words, an international school with just CIS Accreditation would have no problem getting its students into a US college. That is one of the benefits of CIS Accreditation. The most important part of the process, though, is that accreditation helps schools become better at what they do. That is why so many schools around the world pay the money to join the organisation.
Your statement that when CIS works with MSA it is effectively the "local (junior) contractor" is complete nonsense and on its own is a clear indication of your ignorance of anything to do with this subject. In any joint accreditation, it is the CIS protocol that is used.
And it's hard not to resort to personal attacks when you dominate the airways in the way you do. Your claim to understanding the recruitment side of international education is based on your own attempts to get work and - so you say - your effort to scam your way into SEARCH in Australia as a secret recruiter. Not many people believe you did that, so you are either a liar or, just as bad, a cheapskate cheat. If it's the latter, then your school has even less integrity than you do.
And here you are again, spouting off about CIS and accreditation when you aren't in an accredited school, have never been on an accreditation team and likely never will. I've seen your resume on the SEARCH site, so I know how thin your experience is. Facts are facts, Mr Psy, and despite your 20 certifications from Texas, you are working in a low-level, low-performing school and seem to be compensating for your empty career by fulfilling yourself in cyber space. Have you ever thought about seeing a counselor?
Again
Ive read it again, and its as untrue the second time as it was the first time. Not a single claim youve made is a fact, and saying it twice doesnt make it any less false or any more true.
CIS has no curriculum, no assessment, no credential, and no collaborative or regulatory authority to accredit anything. They evaluate/audit/review schools against the schools own criteria, nothing you have said or stated changes those facts.
CIS has no protocol in this case other then what is provided to them, in this case the CIS protocol is the MSA accreditation guidelines. Thats the standard CIS is measuring the school against. Personal attacks do not change this, and are evidence of a weak position.
Keep thinking that
CIS has no curriculum, no assessment, no credential, and no collaborative or regulatory authority to accredit anything. They evaluate/audit/review schools against the schools own criteria, nothing you have said or stated changes those facts.
CIS has no protocol in this case other then what is provided to them, in this case the CIS protocol is the MSA accreditation guidelines. Thats the standard CIS is measuring the school against. Personal attacks do not change this, and are evidence of a weak position.
Keep thinking that
Psyguy, you keep missing the big picture. While you are trying to sound educated on this, you are looking up information on the internet and trying sound like an expert who knows all about accreditation and the process.
You went on to slam CIS, but then you said, "I never said it has no value." Which is it? When you don't know what you are talking about, your position shifts - that's one of the ways a person detects lies.
As Walter said, "Why do you keep doing this?" Why? I don't get the value of you trying to make yourself out to be an expert on literally everything on this forum.
Once again, I think there are varying opinions on the rigor of each accrediting agency, value in deciding which one is most appropriate, maybe even in questioning how a particular school picked up their accreditation. Psyguy, you clearly do not understand the process because you are learning it from the internet, not through the process itself. I can tell you there is great value in accreditation and that it is a very rigorous process, man is it a pain sometimes :)
You went on to slam CIS, but then you said, "I never said it has no value." Which is it? When you don't know what you are talking about, your position shifts - that's one of the ways a person detects lies.
As Walter said, "Why do you keep doing this?" Why? I don't get the value of you trying to make yourself out to be an expert on literally everything on this forum.
Once again, I think there are varying opinions on the rigor of each accrediting agency, value in deciding which one is most appropriate, maybe even in questioning how a particular school picked up their accreditation. Psyguy, you clearly do not understand the process because you are learning it from the internet, not through the process itself. I can tell you there is great value in accreditation and that it is a very rigorous process, man is it a pain sometimes :)
There is none so blind as he who will not see
CIS accredits schools. It is not a program provider such as IGCSE or IB. It looks at the fuctionality of a school, beginning with its mission statement and what it claims it does and then proceeds to assess the various facets that make up the experience for the student - with a particular emphasis on learning and teaching. That is what is meant by accreditation - as opposed to authorization, which is what IGCSE and IB do. US colleges insist (though with less rigor than used to be the case) on schools being accredited, because that, ostensibly, gives them a yardstick by which they can judge applicants.
Lots of big words there, but I hope you are following me so far.
I really don't know where you are getting these silly statements about CIS copying the MSA or other US accrediting agencies. Ask anyone in our world and they will confirm what I am saying. CIS, through committees of teachers, administrators and its own professionals, develops the accreditation protocol. It has just begun using the 8th Edition. Some schools, often those with significant US populations like to have accrediting agencies that their parents will easily recognize, but they want, as well, the rigour of the CIS process. CIS is fine with that, but insists that partner agencies must use their protocol.
More big words, but I really can't be bothered to do a cartoon version for you.
I think secretly you have realized you are making a fool of yourself, but, like a child, you are hoping that if you say "black is white" long enough, then either some people will believe you or they will get bored and move on. I can understand that latter view because I find you quite boring too.
What do you mean by "keep thinking that"? Are you suggesting I'm wrong about your short-lived stays in Egypt, Thailand and China? Have you ever kept a position longer than a year? On reflection, I suppose that does give you some authority to speak about recruiting. I guess you're always looking for a job...
Lots of big words there, but I hope you are following me so far.
I really don't know where you are getting these silly statements about CIS copying the MSA or other US accrediting agencies. Ask anyone in our world and they will confirm what I am saying. CIS, through committees of teachers, administrators and its own professionals, develops the accreditation protocol. It has just begun using the 8th Edition. Some schools, often those with significant US populations like to have accrediting agencies that their parents will easily recognize, but they want, as well, the rigour of the CIS process. CIS is fine with that, but insists that partner agencies must use their protocol.
More big words, but I really can't be bothered to do a cartoon version for you.
I think secretly you have realized you are making a fool of yourself, but, like a child, you are hoping that if you say "black is white" long enough, then either some people will believe you or they will get bored and move on. I can understand that latter view because I find you quite boring too.
What do you mean by "keep thinking that"? Are you suggesting I'm wrong about your short-lived stays in Egypt, Thailand and China? Have you ever kept a position longer than a year? On reflection, I suppose that does give you some authority to speak about recruiting. I guess you're always looking for a job...
Psyguy, I would also add a question for you. How could CIS possibly set up a curriculum for each school? Each host country has its own requirements, each school then targets one or more countries to gear their curriculum towards. How would CIS put all of that together? So they would need a curriculum plan for each individual country, plus sub plans for each targeted curriculum following another country's standards (or state/common core). The regional agencies don't have a pre-set curriculum either. You seem to think that these agencies have to have a CIS provided checklist in order to be valid.
IB can do this because IB does not have to worry about the curriculum dictated by the host country - schools do have to worry. IB does not take into account the requirement for host country exams - they ignore them/ they don't count (or not very much). Schools also have to worry about using a curriculum that is appropriate for students who are not IB. Once again, how could CIS set up a "one ring for them all" approach?
The fact that you have 20 or more certifications means that you do not follow that same rigor that you espouse. There is no way that you have taken the appropriate number of classes, and degree programs to satisfy that portion - you tested out as per the Texas provision that lets you test out once you are certified in another area. Where is that same rigor and quest for doing what's right in your life? How is it a personal attack to ask you do the same in your life as you ask others to do?
Seriously, do you realize that you are becoming the running joke now? Do you think these administrators who do the hiring do not know who you are and what you are saying? Are you trying to get/stay unemployed? It would give you some time to catch up on some much needed certifications - you are missing some of them. Are these certifications like a baseball card collection?
My school is going through the accreditation process and even I do not totally understand it all. How could you grasp much of it when your school isn't even accredited? Again, why are you doing this? Maybe I would have some sympathy for you if I knew why.
IB can do this because IB does not have to worry about the curriculum dictated by the host country - schools do have to worry. IB does not take into account the requirement for host country exams - they ignore them/ they don't count (or not very much). Schools also have to worry about using a curriculum that is appropriate for students who are not IB. Once again, how could CIS set up a "one ring for them all" approach?
The fact that you have 20 or more certifications means that you do not follow that same rigor that you espouse. There is no way that you have taken the appropriate number of classes, and degree programs to satisfy that portion - you tested out as per the Texas provision that lets you test out once you are certified in another area. Where is that same rigor and quest for doing what's right in your life? How is it a personal attack to ask you do the same in your life as you ask others to do?
Seriously, do you realize that you are becoming the running joke now? Do you think these administrators who do the hiring do not know who you are and what you are saying? Are you trying to get/stay unemployed? It would give you some time to catch up on some much needed certifications - you are missing some of them. Are these certifications like a baseball card collection?
My school is going through the accreditation process and even I do not totally understand it all. How could you grasp much of it when your school isn't even accredited? Again, why are you doing this? Maybe I would have some sympathy for you if I knew why.
Regardless of whether or not psyguys info is accurate or not. I must take exception to some of the attacks on here.
Firstly, psyguy has not tried to act like an expert on every topic. I have read many times where he has said he didn't know much about something, or that he only knows because he looked it up. I see nothing wrong with looking up something to provide an answer on this forum.
By the very nature of our profession, much of our information is second hand. For instance, in the city I live in I could give you a complete run down of every schools reputation, but it is all heresay, I have not worked at each school, how could I? But I do know the lowdown due to what friends, students, collegues and others say about each school.
I will be relocating to Shanghai in august. And thanks to the info I have gained here, and on TES, and from the various Shanghai expat websites; I believe I have a good idea of most of the schools reputations, as well as a good idea of what to expect as a new teacher there. Is all the info i have got accurate? probably not. But most of what psyguy said on the subject has been corroborated by other sources. If he is wrong in a few details then so be it. That is why it important to have an open forum.
Lastly, the personal insults and revealing of personal info about posters is just plain wrong! This forum is supposed to be anonymous in order to provide info about schools and working conditions.
Firstly, psyguy has not tried to act like an expert on every topic. I have read many times where he has said he didn't know much about something, or that he only knows because he looked it up. I see nothing wrong with looking up something to provide an answer on this forum.
By the very nature of our profession, much of our information is second hand. For instance, in the city I live in I could give you a complete run down of every schools reputation, but it is all heresay, I have not worked at each school, how could I? But I do know the lowdown due to what friends, students, collegues and others say about each school.
I will be relocating to Shanghai in august. And thanks to the info I have gained here, and on TES, and from the various Shanghai expat websites; I believe I have a good idea of most of the schools reputations, as well as a good idea of what to expect as a new teacher there. Is all the info i have got accurate? probably not. But most of what psyguy said on the subject has been corroborated by other sources. If he is wrong in a few details then so be it. That is why it important to have an open forum.
Lastly, the personal insults and revealing of personal info about posters is just plain wrong! This forum is supposed to be anonymous in order to provide info about schools and working conditions.
tdaley, I generally agree with what you are saying, but disagree in 3 of the areas. He does act like he is an expert. He is not saying, "I think this..." he is saying he is stating facts. However his experience is looking something up on the internet and then acting like an expert. While you may trust him, I don't. Would you trust a guidebook written by someone who had never been to the country, but looked it all up on the internet (oh, but they told you they have direct experience)? You are saying, "Oh yes! I trust him and appreciate all of his comments."
Second he does comment on almost every topic. Seriously, you do not notice this? Seriously?
Third thing is that he has high standards for everyone else, but not himself. He will criticize an admin's/school's reputation, but is very dishonest himself. He is not who he states he is. I understand being anonymous, but to hide behind this to create this admin character with vast experience is just wrong. He questions these accrediting bodies as not being rigorous, but then he goes out and loads up with test only certifications. I'm sorry but hypocrisy bothers me.
You state that we have an open forum so that things can be disputed, but when they are disputed, you say we shouldn't - which is it? My question to you tdaley is why are you okay with this? Why is this dishonesty okay with you? Not the anonymity, but the dishonesty... Why shouldn't someone call this out, just the same as why shouldn't we call out a school's dishonesty?
Second he does comment on almost every topic. Seriously, you do not notice this? Seriously?
Third thing is that he has high standards for everyone else, but not himself. He will criticize an admin's/school's reputation, but is very dishonest himself. He is not who he states he is. I understand being anonymous, but to hide behind this to create this admin character with vast experience is just wrong. He questions these accrediting bodies as not being rigorous, but then he goes out and loads up with test only certifications. I'm sorry but hypocrisy bothers me.
You state that we have an open forum so that things can be disputed, but when they are disputed, you say we shouldn't - which is it? My question to you tdaley is why are you okay with this? Why is this dishonesty okay with you? Not the anonymity, but the dishonesty... Why shouldn't someone call this out, just the same as why shouldn't we call out a school's dishonesty?
I have no problem disputing facts, in fact I welcome it. But stick to the facts, the personal attacks only take away from your arguement. I have no idea if you are who you say you are, if psyguy is who he says he is, just as you have no real idea if I am who I say I am. That is the very nature of this board, and that is how it should be. Argue if you must, actually, I am glad of the arguements. But when your arguement consists of attempting to destroy someones credibility ( whether or not they are credible) it makes me think your actual facts are weak ( even if they are not). If you bring up when someone was wrong on another thread to win an unrelated point, it makes it seem like your facts can't stand up by themselves
Bottom line--- your arguements are stronger if you stay away from making it personal and if you refrain from bringing up unrelated posts.
Bottom line--- your arguements are stronger if you stay away from making it personal and if you refrain from bringing up unrelated posts.