So, my partner and I are interested in teaching internationally, and I would like an idea of what we can expect/hope for.
Here are our qualifications:
Me: BA in English; Language Arts 7-12 certification in Minnesota
13 years experience teaching: AP Literature & Composition; American, British, and World Lits; Creative and College Writing, Speech/Communication, Drama
Extra-Curricular Experience: Drama, Volleyball, Track/Field
Professional Extras: Faculty Leadership Team, Technology Integration Specialist, Advanced Placement Coordinator, Staff Development Chair
She: MA in Exercise Physiology; BA in Biology; 7-12 Certification in Minnesota
20 years experience teaching: both life sciences and physical sciences (even though certification only in biology); math (minored, taught, no certification)
Extra-Curricular Experience: Basketball, Softball, Track & Field
Professional Extras: Dean of Students experience
As a gay couple, I think it is best that we are in Western or Eastern Europe or in Thailand. Our preference is definitely Europe. Do we have a chance here? Are we marketable? We aren't necessarily looking to make a TON of money, but we want to save and travel.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. I would like to start planning now so we can get an early start next fall.
I've really been enjoying perusing this forum and the review site. It's been great to learn about other teachers' experiences!
Looking into International Teaching...Advice?
Well
I was thinking you would be a super teaching couple. Really you are super qualified, and highly competitive. Europe is expensive and you really cant save. Even if you both max out (schools usually cap experience around 6-8 years) you will break even mostly. Thailand has EXCELLENT saving potential, and quality of life.
OK Im making my usual post short and cutting to the chase. Those countries are very progressive, many heads and recruiters are not. A head is going to have serious concerns about how a gay couple is going to look in their school. Why because IS's are private schools and what drives the bottom line is parents tuition, and those parents are not usually the most "tolerant". No head wants their school to get a reputation for being ANYTHINg but great. In all honesty, the idea of their school being known as the "Gay School" would terrify them. It would be one thing if it was out of school, but having both of you on the same faculty, is just a time bomb waiting to go off.
So my advice and I dont mean to offend you. Id approach separate job searches. It will open up more schools (since you would need a single school with both science AND english positions) or look at the possibility of one of you being a trailing spouse. I just believe that making you a "package deal" is going to be a deal breaker...
OK Im making my usual post short and cutting to the chase. Those countries are very progressive, many heads and recruiters are not. A head is going to have serious concerns about how a gay couple is going to look in their school. Why because IS's are private schools and what drives the bottom line is parents tuition, and those parents are not usually the most "tolerant". No head wants their school to get a reputation for being ANYTHINg but great. In all honesty, the idea of their school being known as the "Gay School" would terrify them. It would be one thing if it was out of school, but having both of you on the same faculty, is just a time bomb waiting to go off.
So my advice and I dont mean to offend you. Id approach separate job searches. It will open up more schools (since you would need a single school with both science AND english positions) or look at the possibility of one of you being a trailing spouse. I just believe that making you a "package deal" is going to be a deal breaker...
PsyGuy...thanks for your comments. I'm glad to know that we would be competitive in terms of experience.
In terms of finding work at the same school, we are going to try for this, but I appreciate your heads up about some of the challenges we may/will face. Currently we work at the same school in Minnesota. We have never come out officially at work, but neither have we tried to hide anything. I know that many colleagues, staff, and parents know. We aren't in your face, but then again, I've never had a heterosexual come up to me and tell me they are straight. We just live the way we live, come what may.
I would appreciate any other thoughts/comments from people who have experience being a gay international teacher, or from others who have friends who have had this experience.
We are both really excited to embark on this teaching adventure, but are also trying to be realistic.
Currently we have good jobs, but are looking for something different. We aren't desperate, so we have the advantage of biding our time and finding the right spot, perhaps.
In terms of finding work at the same school, we are going to try for this, but I appreciate your heads up about some of the challenges we may/will face. Currently we work at the same school in Minnesota. We have never come out officially at work, but neither have we tried to hide anything. I know that many colleagues, staff, and parents know. We aren't in your face, but then again, I've never had a heterosexual come up to me and tell me they are straight. We just live the way we live, come what may.
I would appreciate any other thoughts/comments from people who have experience being a gay international teacher, or from others who have friends who have had this experience.
We are both really excited to embark on this teaching adventure, but are also trying to be realistic.
Currently we have good jobs, but are looking for something different. We aren't desperate, so we have the advantage of biding our time and finding the right spot, perhaps.
Questionable advice
"No head wants their school to get a reputation for being ANYTHINg but great. In all honesty, the idea of their school being known as the "Gay School" would terrify them. It would be one thing if it was out of school, but having both of you on the same faculty, is just a time bomb waiting to go off.
So my advice and I dont mean to offend you. Id approach separate job searches. It will open up more schools (since you would need a single school with both science AND english positions) or look at the possibility of one of you being a trailing spouse. I just believe that making you a "package deal" is going to be a deal breaker..."
This is a dangerous generalization. In my school in Asia we have gay couples, and I know the same is true in other Asian schools. We don't see such couples as "time bombs waiting to go off." Don't assume that all school heads are bigoted and old-fashioned.
So my advice and I dont mean to offend you. Id approach separate job searches. It will open up more schools (since you would need a single school with both science AND english positions) or look at the possibility of one of you being a trailing spouse. I just believe that making you a "package deal" is going to be a deal breaker..."
This is a dangerous generalization. In my school in Asia we have gay couples, and I know the same is true in other Asian schools. We don't see such couples as "time bombs waiting to go off." Don't assume that all school heads are bigoted and old-fashioned.
Not assuming
Im not making a blanket generalization, dangerous or not schools have to be very careful at managing their image. Their are great elite schools that would never think of discriminating against someone for their race, but their are a lot of schools that also interpret a western educator as being white. I wish it wasnt so, but it is. Just as there are going to be schools (QSI comes to mind as an example) that a same sex couple would be a deal breaker/non starter.
It may be dangerous to say, but it would be just as naive to think it wouldnt matter everywhere.
It may be dangerous to say, but it would be just as naive to think it wouldnt matter everywhere.
Like Walter, my last international school had several gay staff who were hired based on their excellent teaching credentials, not sexual orientation. Not a single one of these teachers needed to keep their orientation 'under wraps', nor were they labeled as liabilities. Also important to note, their being gay or straight never came up in interviews and one gay male staff member who was hired at the same time as me told me several times how nice it was to not feel the need to hide or be wide open about his sexual orientation once he started working. None of these teachers had a teaching partner, but almost all had non teaching spouses who were always included and invited to both school sponsored events and various social events.
In interviews I would be open about being a couple and state it like it is(no different than a straight teaching couple would) and if any heads/principals are neurotic/bias enough not to hire you, you can just count your blessings you are not working for them! I'd focus on not for profit schools too. There are a lot of good schools out there.
In interviews I would be open about being a couple and state it like it is(no different than a straight teaching couple would) and if any heads/principals are neurotic/bias enough not to hire you, you can just count your blessings you are not working for them! I'd focus on not for profit schools too. There are a lot of good schools out there.
All generalizations are dangerous, including this one...
Sorry, but your comment is full of generalizations:
"No head wants their school to get a reputation for being ANYTHINg but great. In all honesty, the idea of their school being known as the "Gay School" would terrify them."
How would you characterize the above but a broad and gross generalization? You should be careful about offhand remarks like this that criticizeand condemn the entire sector of international education.
I don't disagree that for some schools hiring a gay couple is entering dangerous territory but it certainly isn't for my school and for many others. The advice you give should be more nuanced. It's fine to have opinions, but that is different to being opinionated - especially if people take your assertions to be fact...
"No head wants their school to get a reputation for being ANYTHINg but great. In all honesty, the idea of their school being known as the "Gay School" would terrify them."
How would you characterize the above but a broad and gross generalization? You should be careful about offhand remarks like this that criticizeand condemn the entire sector of international education.
I don't disagree that for some schools hiring a gay couple is entering dangerous territory but it certainly isn't for my school and for many others. The advice you give should be more nuanced. It's fine to have opinions, but that is different to being opinionated - especially if people take your assertions to be fact...
You might find our Alternative Life Styles Overseas blog of interest.
http://internationalschoolsreviewdiscus ... -overseas/
http://internationalschoolsreviewdiscus ... -overseas/
I think that schools are becoming more enlightened. Very few would fear being labelled the 'gay school'.
I worked at a major international school in Asia where an administrator was known to be gay (with a partner who also taught at the school). It was a non-issue.
I moved to another school in Asia which has twice hired a couple as a package deal.
This is just speaking for myself, but if I was in your position, I would not want to feel like I am hiding something. I'd be open with the schools you are interviewing with.
It may well be that they hire you as 2 singles (which is often better in terms of housing allowances etc than being hired as a couple). I am not sure I'd want to work for a school who refused to hire me because we declared we were a gay couple (but that's just my opinion!).
Finally, I have heard that some administrators have been saying that this year has been a tough year for filling vacancies with quality candidates. I really believe that if you are a quality candidate who will be great for the school, then the school is not going to pass on you because of your sexuality. The only exceptions I can think of are some of the christian schools.
I worked at a major international school in Asia where an administrator was known to be gay (with a partner who also taught at the school). It was a non-issue.
I moved to another school in Asia which has twice hired a couple as a package deal.
This is just speaking for myself, but if I was in your position, I would not want to feel like I am hiding something. I'd be open with the schools you are interviewing with.
It may well be that they hire you as 2 singles (which is often better in terms of housing allowances etc than being hired as a couple). I am not sure I'd want to work for a school who refused to hire me because we declared we were a gay couple (but that's just my opinion!).
Finally, I have heard that some administrators have been saying that this year has been a tough year for filling vacancies with quality candidates. I really believe that if you are a quality candidate who will be great for the school, then the school is not going to pass on you because of your sexuality. The only exceptions I can think of are some of the christian schools.
Thanks everyone for the comments and insight. The alternative lifestyles blog really offered some helpful information.
We will be specifically looking at European schools, both east and west, as those seem to be the most outwardly tolerant. We would be open to other schools as well, but we will be open with them. I'd hate to get there and find out they loathe us not because of our teaching but because of how we live.
Right now I'm really wanting to start international teaching in fall 2012, but I know that's probably unrealistic for us. I will however, keep an eye on the postings if something magical opens up!
Aside from issues of sexuality, are we competitive for good schools in Europe? I don't mind a non-elite school, but we do want to be part of a school that's not mired in low teacher morale and administration issues. We are also open to other areas that would be open to us.
We want to make enough for both of us to live comfortably (we are naturally frugal but want to travel), and to save a little.
We will be specifically looking at European schools, both east and west, as those seem to be the most outwardly tolerant. We would be open to other schools as well, but we will be open with them. I'd hate to get there and find out they loathe us not because of our teaching but because of how we live.
Right now I'm really wanting to start international teaching in fall 2012, but I know that's probably unrealistic for us. I will however, keep an eye on the postings if something magical opens up!
Aside from issues of sexuality, are we competitive for good schools in Europe? I don't mind a non-elite school, but we do want to be part of a school that's not mired in low teacher morale and administration issues. We are also open to other areas that would be open to us.
We want to make enough for both of us to live comfortably (we are naturally frugal but want to travel), and to save a little.
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centennial95
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:55 am
Competitive
Your basically a bio teacher and an english teacher with great experiences. Lack of iB experience will be a challenge but I think youd be competitive for europe. Its also not too late for August 2012, but you have a lot of work to do.
With 2 salaries and no kids, you could actually come out ahead. Europe isnt the plae you go to to save money, its the place you go to for the culture. Your not going to save a lot though. The main reasons are taxes and a lack of housing package.
With 2 salaries and no kids, you could actually come out ahead. Europe isnt the plae you go to to save money, its the place you go to for the culture. Your not going to save a lot though. The main reasons are taxes and a lack of housing package.
Ok...so today there is a posting on TIE online for a school in Vienna, Amadeus International School, which appears to be just starting new in fall 2012. Does anyone know anything about this school? I checked out the website, but has anybody heard other information through the International Teacher grapevine?
There is an opening for both of us, but I'm a little wary of the new school bit. The salary looks pretty good and there are some reimbursements for living expenses it looks like.
There is an opening for both of us, but I'm a little wary of the new school bit. The salary looks pretty good and there are some reimbursements for living expenses it looks like.
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frees1spirit
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:12 pm
Vietnam is great for gay couples.
Last edited by frees1spirit on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.