How would one know if they have been "blacklisted?"
Also--do all headmasters, directors, etc. hold other headmasters, directors in high regard no matter what? Do some headmasters/directors realize that other headmasters/directors may be (or may have been) very poor leaders?
"Blacklisted"
It's very hard to tell why you aren't getting a job. Could be blacklisting, but really there isn't any actual list, it's just word of mouth. Could be just that it's not your time for a new job, you don't have the exact qualifications, your personality won't round out the existing team members, somebody else was a stronger candidate, somebody else is married to a HS Chemistry teacher and gets hired on that basis....
In my experience doesn't happen that often. Most Heads are perfectly content to let teachers move on to other positions and will neither help nor hinder a candidate they don't like, unless someone seeks them out to ask very specific questions. The exceptions I've seen have been for teachers who well and truly have no place in a school, who massively messed up, who created major issues.
And yes, Heads pick and choose who they listen to. The good Heads know and trust each other. The bad Heads listen to each other, meaning that if a bad Head is badmouthing you, other bad Heads are unlikely to hire you, which is a good thing for you. If a bad Head badmouths you to a good Head, the good Head won't listen and may even consider it a point in your favor. So if some rapscallion of dubious reputation is attacking you for poor reasons, you should still be fine. If you've managed to royally piss off a good Head, someone others like, that's when you might find things get tough.
In my experience doesn't happen that often. Most Heads are perfectly content to let teachers move on to other positions and will neither help nor hinder a candidate they don't like, unless someone seeks them out to ask very specific questions. The exceptions I've seen have been for teachers who well and truly have no place in a school, who massively messed up, who created major issues.
And yes, Heads pick and choose who they listen to. The good Heads know and trust each other. The bad Heads listen to each other, meaning that if a bad Head is badmouthing you, other bad Heads are unlikely to hire you, which is a good thing for you. If a bad Head badmouths you to a good Head, the good Head won't listen and may even consider it a point in your favor. So if some rapscallion of dubious reputation is attacking you for poor reasons, you should still be fine. If you've managed to royally piss off a good Head, someone others like, that's when you might find things get tough.
No such thing
Its a myth, there is no such thing as a "blacklist". Heads change, Pete move, and while it's a small circle many heads and principals don't want to get involved in the word of mouth game, unless it's to say something positive. Of course if you do something horrible, like criminal, that can follow you to the far corners of the globe, but there is no secret blacklist.
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Rhaegar Targaryen
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:10 am
Thanks for the replies, Psy and Sid. Very helpful.
I am not too worried yet--I am just starting to feel a little anxious because I have not heard back from "e-mail" inquiries (cover letter, resumes, references).
Almost all of the schools I am interested in (except one) are still on summer recess until after January 22 (so you can probably determine where my interest lies). I am trying to be positive--and telling myself this is the reason for the lack of return e-mails.
I did hear from two schools already--one sent me an e-mail about scheduling a phone talk for this week, but I haven't heard from him in two weeks (the students return to school in the middle of next week--I think admin started back today).
The director from the other school said he was forwarding information to the principal and I will hear from them if I am qualified (I haven't heard anything yet). Today, that same director said two other positions for which I showed interest have already been filled (I sent "e-mails" about these positions just recently, however). All of the positions are still posted on their website.
About my qualifications--I am fully qualified for all of the positions I am interested in (with corresponding experience)--and I offer versatility as well.
We'll see (and hope).
Other posters--feel free to share you advice and wisdom as well...!
I am not too worried yet--I am just starting to feel a little anxious because I have not heard back from "e-mail" inquiries (cover letter, resumes, references).
Almost all of the schools I am interested in (except one) are still on summer recess until after January 22 (so you can probably determine where my interest lies). I am trying to be positive--and telling myself this is the reason for the lack of return e-mails.
I did hear from two schools already--one sent me an e-mail about scheduling a phone talk for this week, but I haven't heard from him in two weeks (the students return to school in the middle of next week--I think admin started back today).
The director from the other school said he was forwarding information to the principal and I will hear from them if I am qualified (I haven't heard anything yet). Today, that same director said two other positions for which I showed interest have already been filled (I sent "e-mails" about these positions just recently, however). All of the positions are still posted on their website.
About my qualifications--I am fully qualified for all of the positions I am interested in (with corresponding experience)--and I offer versatility as well.
We'll see (and hope).
Other posters--feel free to share you advice and wisdom as well...!
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overseasvet2
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:50 pm
hearing back
This is a stressful time of year for recruiting - for teachers and admin. You have to understand that a school (even a small one) gets hundreds of e-mail applications and not all have a human resources dept to go through them all. If it's just the school admin, they're trying to do that and all of the regular work, too. If the e-mail is generic or contains only attachments, they will most likely get a pass.
Some schools simply won't respond to e-mails out of the blue. Some prioritize those that come tagged from the Search e-mail system. Others are vigilant that everyone at least gets a "thank you" note.
It's hard to be patient, especially when you've quit a job to go looking. It never hurts to follow up to ask for confirmation that your items were received. Just watch the tone - if it comes across as impatient or testy, again, it will probably be ignored.
I'm not trying to be mean but I have some done some screening for my school and you would not believe the types of e-mails we receive when people are supposedly seeking employment. One was written in all caps an another simply said "see attachments".
Some schools simply won't respond to e-mails out of the blue. Some prioritize those that come tagged from the Search e-mail system. Others are vigilant that everyone at least gets a "thank you" note.
It's hard to be patient, especially when you've quit a job to go looking. It never hurts to follow up to ask for confirmation that your items were received. Just watch the tone - if it comes across as impatient or testy, again, it will probably be ignored.
I'm not trying to be mean but I have some done some screening for my school and you would not believe the types of e-mails we receive when people are supposedly seeking employment. One was written in all caps an another simply said "see attachments".
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Rhaegar Targaryen
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:10 am
Re: hearing back
At overseasvet...
Thank you for the information, overseasvet...very helpful.
Haha...I totally understand...my e-mails, tone, etc. have been polished and profressional (no worries there). I am not really worried about my presentation, etc. I am just concerned about the current nuances of the international teaching job search. The last time I did this was just under a decade ago. Things have changed, correct?
It is just good to know that schools are overwhelmed at this time. I will start doing follow up e-mails in about a week or so.
***E-mails tagged from the Search e-mail system--how and what is that? Please advise!***
Thank you for the information, overseasvet...very helpful.
Haha...I totally understand...my e-mails, tone, etc. have been polished and profressional (no worries there). I am not really worried about my presentation, etc. I am just concerned about the current nuances of the international teaching job search. The last time I did this was just under a decade ago. Things have changed, correct?
It is just good to know that schools are overwhelmed at this time. I will start doing follow up e-mails in about a week or so.
***E-mails tagged from the Search e-mail system--how and what is that? Please advise!***
Search Emails
So when you log onto Search and you find a position, and you click on that "email/contact this employer" and you get the blank email, windown and you copy and paste your cover page into it, and then click send. That email goes to the schools email address listed with search. Its the same address that you can copy and paste from the schools profile, but when you fill out the Search online email, it comes from their server, and Searches email address. Most schools have a filter setup for that email address that "dump" or direct those emails into a specific folder like "Search" for instance. The advantage is that instead of having a person who has to sort those emails by subject lines, with a bunch of other general inquiry emails, which for hundreds or thousands of emails a day can be tedious. Since all these search emails come from the same address they are automatically sorted into one place and the head or principal can just click though them at their leisure. It really does increase the likelihood of your resume and application being seen by the right person in time. For instance if the deadline for a position is a friday and you email your materials yourself to the school on a thursday, it might be in the schools general "inbox" for days or longer, and meantime the school has already moved forward with a pool of candidates.
There are Pros and Cons to both.
If you send the email directly you can include attachments, such as your formatted resume, and cover letter, which gives a recruiter immediate info about you, and often they have the material they need to at least screen your application. The disadvantage is your email might get lost in the sea of emails a school gets. With the search email It may very likely get routed faster and more reliably. The disadvantage is that a head has to log on to search, type you name, sort through the matches and bring up your profile before they can print it. Thats a lot of work for a head to do as well, and usually the message you send through search doesnt have enough info to seriously consider you.
My advice is to do both. I copy and paste a "mini summary" or highlights of my resume and credentials, into the Search email, and indicate that a complete application package was emailed directly to them as well.
There are Pros and Cons to both.
If you send the email directly you can include attachments, such as your formatted resume, and cover letter, which gives a recruiter immediate info about you, and often they have the material they need to at least screen your application. The disadvantage is your email might get lost in the sea of emails a school gets. With the search email It may very likely get routed faster and more reliably. The disadvantage is that a head has to log on to search, type you name, sort through the matches and bring up your profile before they can print it. Thats a lot of work for a head to do as well, and usually the message you send through search doesnt have enough info to seriously consider you.
My advice is to do both. I copy and paste a "mini summary" or highlights of my resume and credentials, into the Search email, and indicate that a complete application package was emailed directly to them as well.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: No such thing
[quote="PsyGuy"]Its a myth, there is no such thing as a "blacklist". Heads change, Pete move, and while it's a small circle many heads and principals don't want to get involved in the word of mouth game, unless it's to say something positive. Of course if you do something horrible, like criminal, that can follow you to the far corners of the globe, but there is no secret blacklist.[/quote]
Maybe. Although a school head of a top tier school I am friendly with, told me point blank, you know there is a black list, at Search BKK. And then proceded to tell me about a teacher he didn't hire because of it. Maybe he was pulling my leg, but...
Maybe. Although a school head of a top tier school I am friendly with, told me point blank, you know there is a black list, at Search BKK. And then proceded to tell me about a teacher he didn't hire because of it. Maybe he was pulling my leg, but...
:)
Seriously, you believe that? (LOL) He was pulling your leg.
1) Who would keep it?
2) How would one access it?
3) How would new admins be inducted into the secret list society?
3) What would it be a list of names? Im sure our little circle is big enough and with enough history that there might be more then one or two "John Smiths"?
4) And seriously, you couldnt keep this kind of secret a secret very long. Some ex admin with an axe to grind would have exposed the whole thing long ago.
Im sure with a circle of friends who are admins/heads their is some behind the scenes "word of mouth", but heir is no "black list"....
No if you will excuse me I have to get my robes and practice the secret hand shake in the mirror for a while....
1) Who would keep it?
2) How would one access it?
3) How would new admins be inducted into the secret list society?
3) What would it be a list of names? Im sure our little circle is big enough and with enough history that there might be more then one or two "John Smiths"?
4) And seriously, you couldnt keep this kind of secret a secret very long. Some ex admin with an axe to grind would have exposed the whole thing long ago.
Im sure with a circle of friends who are admins/heads their is some behind the scenes "word of mouth", but heir is no "black list"....
No if you will excuse me I have to get my robes and practice the secret hand shake in the mirror for a while....
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: :)
[quote="PsyGuy"]Seriously, you believe that? (LOL) He was pulling your leg.
1) Who would keep it?
2) How would one access it?
3) How would new admins be inducted into the secret list society?
3) What would it be a list of names? Im sure our little circle is big enough and with enough history that there might be more then one or two "John Smiths"?
4) And seriously, you couldnt keep this kind of secret a secret very long. Some ex admin with an axe to grind would have exposed the whole thing long ago.
Im sure with a circle of friends who are admins/heads their is some behind the scenes "word of mouth", but heir is no "black list"....
No if you will excuse me I have to get my robes and practice the secret hand shake in the mirror for a while....[/quote]
No, I don't think that there is some mystical list, but I do think that there is something a bit more involved than just occassional word of mouth on a case by case basis.
In some cities there is a list of deadbeat families that makes the rounds of school heads, so I don't see why it would be that different.
AND, I'd rather not hear about what you do in front of the mirror. TMI, dude.
1) Who would keep it?
2) How would one access it?
3) How would new admins be inducted into the secret list society?
3) What would it be a list of names? Im sure our little circle is big enough and with enough history that there might be more then one or two "John Smiths"?
4) And seriously, you couldnt keep this kind of secret a secret very long. Some ex admin with an axe to grind would have exposed the whole thing long ago.
Im sure with a circle of friends who are admins/heads their is some behind the scenes "word of mouth", but heir is no "black list"....
No if you will excuse me I have to get my robes and practice the secret hand shake in the mirror for a while....[/quote]
No, I don't think that there is some mystical list, but I do think that there is something a bit more involved than just occassional word of mouth on a case by case basis.
In some cities there is a list of deadbeat families that makes the rounds of school heads, so I don't see why it would be that different.
AND, I'd rather not hear about what you do in front of the mirror. TMI, dude.
:)
LOL, priceless, tea almost came out my.
Really though compare the two lists. This bad debt list sounds like a well known thing, and were discussing some global secret, blacklist. See the difference??? If it really existed, it would be common knowledge by now.
Really though compare the two lists. This bad debt list sounds like a well known thing, and were discussing some global secret, blacklist. See the difference??? If it really existed, it would be common knowledge by now.