This is a review posted on THIS in the review section ISR. The school tends to recruit people who may or may not spend money on ISR. if you are serious about teaching overseas, becoming a member of ISR is a must.
The Review...........................................................................
NOTE FROM ISR: WE HAVE REMOVED THIS SCHOOL REVIEW. FOR LEGAL REASONS SCHOOL EVALUATIONS POSTED TO THE MEMBERS' AREA MUST REMAIN IN THE MEMBERS' AREA OF THE WEB SITE. MANY THANKS: FORUM ADMIN
Tsinghua International School, BEIJING CHINA
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Ditto
Yeah Ditto, the ISR reviews for China (and asia) are full of them.
Honestly, though for this type of school, the person was either naive, or desperate. Schools (even the bad ones) need teachers, and like everyone they want to maximize the return on their investment. Im sure they would like to be a better school, and have better students, and have more money, and bigger budgets, more prestige, and reputation but not everyone can be WAB or BIS. They are just making due with the resources they have. What youve described is pretty typical of "public" schools just about everywhere, they are there to educate the masses. This is just one of the schools new teachers have to suffer through before they move on to something better, and if it wasnt for the legions of schools like this, there wouldnt be a better school for comparison.
Honestly, though for this type of school, the person was either naive, or desperate. Schools (even the bad ones) need teachers, and like everyone they want to maximize the return on their investment. Im sure they would like to be a better school, and have better students, and have more money, and bigger budgets, more prestige, and reputation but not everyone can be WAB or BIS. They are just making due with the resources they have. What youve described is pretty typical of "public" schools just about everywhere, they are there to educate the masses. This is just one of the schools new teachers have to suffer through before they move on to something better, and if it wasnt for the legions of schools like this, there wouldnt be a better school for comparison.
I am not sure either motivations for responding to the FYI post, but I wanted to address some assumptions
Tsinghua International School is a National School
Tsinghua International School is not "branded" as a national school. The school primary students have been and continues to be a school that caters to ethnic/ national Chinese that lived in North America for an extended period of time. Recently, the school decided to expand. With the expansion, it added students who are full Chinese nationals with limited ability to speak English.
The school shares a unique relationship with Tsinghua High School. Tsinghua High School is not a typical national school. It is connected with Tsinghua University one of two of the top universities in China that has a excellent reputation world- wide. While other Chinese national schools may or may not be well resource- Tsinghua High School is very well resource.
The factor for THIS not be well resource goes back to the relationship it has with the High School. THIS shares the same facilities with the High School, but not the resources. We are both independent and connected with the high school. This may change with accreditation. For example, "Big Wang" (Principal of the High School) was not explicitly listed as "principal of the THIS" until after the visit. Furthermore, students who are denied entry into the High School is often allowed to enroll at THIS whether or not they are qualified. In some cases, affluent parents pay large sums of money to sway the admin.
Its a lower tier "International" school good entry point
This is pretty nonchalant attitude about people lives with dependent. Perhaps if you are single and in your 20s this might be a good entry level job to have, but not if you are responsible for dependents. Moreover, young or not, choosing to teach overseas should not be a sacrifice. You must always choose the best possible situation for yourself. It is bad advice to do anything less.
Aurochs
Tsinghua International School is a National School
Tsinghua International School is not "branded" as a national school. The school primary students have been and continues to be a school that caters to ethnic/ national Chinese that lived in North America for an extended period of time. Recently, the school decided to expand. With the expansion, it added students who are full Chinese nationals with limited ability to speak English.
The school shares a unique relationship with Tsinghua High School. Tsinghua High School is not a typical national school. It is connected with Tsinghua University one of two of the top universities in China that has a excellent reputation world- wide. While other Chinese national schools may or may not be well resource- Tsinghua High School is very well resource.
The factor for THIS not be well resource goes back to the relationship it has with the High School. THIS shares the same facilities with the High School, but not the resources. We are both independent and connected with the high school. This may change with accreditation. For example, "Big Wang" (Principal of the High School) was not explicitly listed as "principal of the THIS" until after the visit. Furthermore, students who are denied entry into the High School is often allowed to enroll at THIS whether or not they are qualified. In some cases, affluent parents pay large sums of money to sway the admin.
Its a lower tier "International" school good entry point
This is pretty nonchalant attitude about people lives with dependent. Perhaps if you are single and in your 20s this might be a good entry level job to have, but not if you are responsible for dependents. Moreover, young or not, choosing to teach overseas should not be a sacrifice. You must always choose the best possible situation for yourself. It is bad advice to do anything less.
Aurochs
Sorry
Ok sorry, I understand you had a bad experience, and I really am sorry, but a lot of your clarifications are really just picking nits.
First, the term "international" as used in the name of a school doesnt have any legal meaning or definition in any (based on my search) country. Its marketing, and it doesnt matter what a school calls itself. Everyone familiar with international eduation who looks at their school profile knows that its a national school based on the student population demographics.
Second, who cares is so and so principal is listed or not as to who really runs the school, it happens all the time. Crummy schools often have crummy leadership. regardless of whos actually in charge and what there intentions are.
Third, business is business. The more dependent a school is on tuition the lower their admission standards. Happens all the time. even at good schools if theres a seat available and theirs enough money involved a student can get into just about any private/international school.
Lastly, I'm sorry your experience was bad, but your ideals are just that ideals. Most (if not all) entry level teachers do make sacrifices at some point and to some degree. If the potential risks (because of your dependents, or whatever reason) are too much for you, then stay home.
Honestly, I dont see anything in your post that would indicate how it would be a hardship for your dependents? Most of your complaints are really just cultural differences (and business differences at that). I hate to say it, but China is run differently then the USA (or whatever western european country) you hail from. You just seem like a pretty non-adaptable/rigid person. From a teachers contract standpoint: school name, principal identity, and admission policies are not really fair concerns to a teacher (OK if your contract specified a specific principal you would be working under, maybe).
First, the term "international" as used in the name of a school doesnt have any legal meaning or definition in any (based on my search) country. Its marketing, and it doesnt matter what a school calls itself. Everyone familiar with international eduation who looks at their school profile knows that its a national school based on the student population demographics.
Second, who cares is so and so principal is listed or not as to who really runs the school, it happens all the time. Crummy schools often have crummy leadership. regardless of whos actually in charge and what there intentions are.
Third, business is business. The more dependent a school is on tuition the lower their admission standards. Happens all the time. even at good schools if theres a seat available and theirs enough money involved a student can get into just about any private/international school.
Lastly, I'm sorry your experience was bad, but your ideals are just that ideals. Most (if not all) entry level teachers do make sacrifices at some point and to some degree. If the potential risks (because of your dependents, or whatever reason) are too much for you, then stay home.
Honestly, I dont see anything in your post that would indicate how it would be a hardship for your dependents? Most of your complaints are really just cultural differences (and business differences at that). I hate to say it, but China is run differently then the USA (or whatever western european country) you hail from. You just seem like a pretty non-adaptable/rigid person. From a teachers contract standpoint: school name, principal identity, and admission policies are not really fair concerns to a teacher (OK if your contract specified a specific principal you would be working under, maybe).
You really are presumptuous and a kin to ad hominem.
Neither the original posting OR my 2nd posting were my personal opinion. It is a combination of conversation with different teachers and administration had made to me. I am not sure why you insist on attacking me personally. I am only the messenger,.. a beacon of warning.
There are also other issues that other employees have experience at the school that was not in the review. I chose not to include them since I didn't feel confident of a job explaining it as others. When others read this review, I am hoping they will share those issues with the forum and in the ISR review section.
You are also wrong on the fact I am having cultural differences issues. I was aware from the beginning of the cultural differences. In fact, dealing with the high expectations of Chinese parents is a much bigger issue to me than the function of the hierarchy of the school. While this can be frustrating at time, it is hardly a reason to complain, much less, blame the school for it.
Lastly, I indicated in the original posting while it is a hardship for teachers with dependence. The contract itself is misleading paragraph. The teachers with dependence would had chosen to stay at home if they knew what they know now. Hindsight is 20/20 its great that you are gifted.
BTW, the principal comment was also intended to illustrate the confusing manner in which the school is connected, but independent of the High School. Since the visitation of WASC, "Big Wang*" has made an appearance at every THIS event. The debate is whether or not this is a sign of change or just another form of window dressing. An optimist would claim the former a pessimist would assume the latter. The belief is once "Big Wong" sees many of the issues at the school, then he may become personally invested and help ensure the school is properly resource like the High School. So, it actually does matter.
I would agree and disagree that admission policies is not the concern of teachers. Ordinarily, I could care less. In the past, even when questionable students are admitted, they are still resources at your disposal to help the child succeed. So, ordinarily I do not have a problem. If you read the review you see why the admission of students is an issue. Parents who have "paid" to have their child admitted have undermined the disciplinary actions of students. I personally have not had any issues of student discipline. So, as I mentioned, the review above was written from many perspectives.
Lastly, when teaching overseas you are sacrificing. It is always best to sacrifice when you are fully informed. The review is designed to be informative to aid in a person decision to make the sacrifice and work overseas at THIS. If they come to THIS and see what is happening, then they should not be surprise. It isn't about coming to an ideal school. Its about being informed. The honest to god truth is that admins will lie through their teeth to get you to sign a contract. ISR ad other sites like it are designed to aid teachers to make informed decisions.
I am not sure why you are so personally invested in this review of some obscure school in China, but I do appreciate the effort of keeping it on page 1.
[size=9][i]* FYI... in Chinese "Wang" is pronounced as "Wong." He is called Big Wag to differentiate him from the Vice Principal Wang (called Little Wang).
[b]Note: [/b]When I used the term *I* I am speaking as myself. Any 3rd person reference does not necessarily exclude me... it is done as a matter of convenience.
[/i][/size]
Neither the original posting OR my 2nd posting were my personal opinion. It is a combination of conversation with different teachers and administration had made to me. I am not sure why you insist on attacking me personally. I am only the messenger,.. a beacon of warning.
There are also other issues that other employees have experience at the school that was not in the review. I chose not to include them since I didn't feel confident of a job explaining it as others. When others read this review, I am hoping they will share those issues with the forum and in the ISR review section.
You are also wrong on the fact I am having cultural differences issues. I was aware from the beginning of the cultural differences. In fact, dealing with the high expectations of Chinese parents is a much bigger issue to me than the function of the hierarchy of the school. While this can be frustrating at time, it is hardly a reason to complain, much less, blame the school for it.
Lastly, I indicated in the original posting while it is a hardship for teachers with dependence. The contract itself is misleading paragraph. The teachers with dependence would had chosen to stay at home if they knew what they know now. Hindsight is 20/20 its great that you are gifted.
BTW, the principal comment was also intended to illustrate the confusing manner in which the school is connected, but independent of the High School. Since the visitation of WASC, "Big Wang*" has made an appearance at every THIS event. The debate is whether or not this is a sign of change or just another form of window dressing. An optimist would claim the former a pessimist would assume the latter. The belief is once "Big Wong" sees many of the issues at the school, then he may become personally invested and help ensure the school is properly resource like the High School. So, it actually does matter.
I would agree and disagree that admission policies is not the concern of teachers. Ordinarily, I could care less. In the past, even when questionable students are admitted, they are still resources at your disposal to help the child succeed. So, ordinarily I do not have a problem. If you read the review you see why the admission of students is an issue. Parents who have "paid" to have their child admitted have undermined the disciplinary actions of students. I personally have not had any issues of student discipline. So, as I mentioned, the review above was written from many perspectives.
Lastly, when teaching overseas you are sacrificing. It is always best to sacrifice when you are fully informed. The review is designed to be informative to aid in a person decision to make the sacrifice and work overseas at THIS. If they come to THIS and see what is happening, then they should not be surprise. It isn't about coming to an ideal school. Its about being informed. The honest to god truth is that admins will lie through their teeth to get you to sign a contract. ISR ad other sites like it are designed to aid teachers to make informed decisions.
I am not sure why you are so personally invested in this review of some obscure school in China, but I do appreciate the effort of keeping it on page 1.
[size=9][i]* FYI... in Chinese "Wang" is pronounced as "Wong." He is called Big Wag to differentiate him from the Vice Principal Wang (called Little Wang).
[b]Note: [/b]When I used the term *I* I am speaking as myself. Any 3rd person reference does not necessarily exclude me... it is done as a matter of convenience.
[/i][/size]
Well
As anyone whos been on this board will attest too, i take a personal interest in every post on this board, some more then others. Nothing i said in my post is an attack on you (more like aggressivly defending the alternative point of view).
Contracts are never written for the benefit of the teacher, they are there to protect the school. Im sorry if you took offense, I really, really am, its just that most of your post addresses minor, political and organizational issues, that to a seasoned international teacher are just par for the course, and read like one of those bad chinese day time soap operas. It kinda has you sounding like theres a conspiracy, when in reality thats just how things are done over a large part of asia and china. Basically, and again not trying to offend you but you just didnt know how to read between the lines. I am sorry, and I agree that a lot of the problems at this school are a result of the school, but theres nothing thats not "normal" about the school given its status and resources.
Ok now this is the personal ad hominem attack.
You are not the "messenger" or the "beacon of warning" you are a *venter*, your frustrated, upset and angry, and your taking out those frustrations by masking as a crusader against an "unjust" school. Thats not a messenger thats a whiner. Life isnt fair, your a westerner, who lives a pretty nice life, and pretty high on the old global resource pyramid. At that school you were making WAY more then one of the locals was, and enjoyed a certain amount of "slack" and freedom that a local wouldnt have gotten because of your "foreigner" status. In all honesty, you better hope teaching life doesnt get "more fair" because youd find yourself in a lot deeper and uglier position then the one you were in. We thank you for your post and your review, but posting in every venue (especially on the same site) is just the act and mentality of someone looking for retribution.
Contracts are never written for the benefit of the teacher, they are there to protect the school. Im sorry if you took offense, I really, really am, its just that most of your post addresses minor, political and organizational issues, that to a seasoned international teacher are just par for the course, and read like one of those bad chinese day time soap operas. It kinda has you sounding like theres a conspiracy, when in reality thats just how things are done over a large part of asia and china. Basically, and again not trying to offend you but you just didnt know how to read between the lines. I am sorry, and I agree that a lot of the problems at this school are a result of the school, but theres nothing thats not "normal" about the school given its status and resources.
Ok now this is the personal ad hominem attack.
You are not the "messenger" or the "beacon of warning" you are a *venter*, your frustrated, upset and angry, and your taking out those frustrations by masking as a crusader against an "unjust" school. Thats not a messenger thats a whiner. Life isnt fair, your a westerner, who lives a pretty nice life, and pretty high on the old global resource pyramid. At that school you were making WAY more then one of the locals was, and enjoyed a certain amount of "slack" and freedom that a local wouldnt have gotten because of your "foreigner" status. In all honesty, you better hope teaching life doesnt get "more fair" because youd find yourself in a lot deeper and uglier position then the one you were in. We thank you for your post and your review, but posting in every venue (especially on the same site) is just the act and mentality of someone looking for retribution.
Alternative point of view?
Its can be more accurately be describe as a slam against the education system of China by making sweeping over generalization. You are incapable of presented an "alternative point of view" because you have "zero" knowledge of THIS. The Chinese education system is one of the best in the world, but you seem to act as if it isn't. I would think the Chinese would prefer you say nothing if you called this "defending" them.
What is a contract? A voluntary and legally binding agreement between two or more competent parties. While contracts certainly benefits the school, it also is the only legal means for the teacher as well. I have in past made successful arguments to the school about benefits outline in the contract and also lost arguments pertaining to benefits not explicit in the contract. The bottom line is if it isn't in the contract, then you "ain't" getting it. This is true despite any communication you may receive in writing. This should be a warning for anyone reading this board. In reference to comments about the contract. The contract is inconsistently written giving the impression your benefits are better than what you think you are reading. In some cases, statements made about your benefits were misrepresented.
As far as a conspiracy is concern, I will consult Alex Jones. I hear he is an expert on them. Seriously, I cannot speak for the state of mind or intent of certain admin. The issue of an unclear contract was brought up to the admin. I believe it is currently under review. It doesn't, however, change issues as a result of it. The issue of the contract could also be partially linguistic; the contract is first written in Chinese then later translated to English.
Aurochs, the Venter or PsyGuy the "Presumptor?"
Again, you are presumptuous!
I believe I stated that the school isn't for everyone. I also stated that some people will probably like working at THIS. I also stated that there are hard working teachers who have a positive outlook for the school. I (we) outline some of the issues with the school. If you are uncomfortable working in the this type of environment, it is recommended that you avoid applying to THIS. If you find the issues presented as petty and trivial, by all means, apply to THIS, I am sure if you meet their qualification, they will love to have you work for them.
I have no idea what you mean by "posting in every venue." I posted in the ISR members area review and in the forum so that both members and non- members get an opportunity to read about a group of teachers perspective on THIS.
Lastly, I do not hope nor wish the school to fail in its goal. It has high hopes of being on equal footing with ISB or WAB. If they accomplish this goal, I will be impress and very happy for them. The review wasn't about the school's goal. It is about the current situation.
Here's a another kicker,.... I have not decided if I will stay another year or not. if i am going to help this school reach its goal, the last thing I want are more disgruntled teachers. I cannot tell you more than this as they may be enough information to reveal my identity.
Lastly, I have to say its strange for you to defend "attacking me" by yet launching another wave of attack. The review I posted was edited by no less than 4 other teachers. This is not an emotional response to events, but a factual account of issues relating to the school. If they are petty and trivial, then it is for the reader to decide, not me. Its almost comical that you continuously attempt to "paint me" me as some irrational ranter, when it is you tossing the insults. I can only guess what you mean by the "Foreigner status" mean.... I can only guess it some new presumptuous attack on my character. Seriously, while passive aggressive behavior might be consider cute or tolerable by some people on this board, its tiresome and childish to me.
Aurochs
Its can be more accurately be describe as a slam against the education system of China by making sweeping over generalization. You are incapable of presented an "alternative point of view" because you have "zero" knowledge of THIS. The Chinese education system is one of the best in the world, but you seem to act as if it isn't. I would think the Chinese would prefer you say nothing if you called this "defending" them.
What is a contract? A voluntary and legally binding agreement between two or more competent parties. While contracts certainly benefits the school, it also is the only legal means for the teacher as well. I have in past made successful arguments to the school about benefits outline in the contract and also lost arguments pertaining to benefits not explicit in the contract. The bottom line is if it isn't in the contract, then you "ain't" getting it. This is true despite any communication you may receive in writing. This should be a warning for anyone reading this board. In reference to comments about the contract. The contract is inconsistently written giving the impression your benefits are better than what you think you are reading. In some cases, statements made about your benefits were misrepresented.
As far as a conspiracy is concern, I will consult Alex Jones. I hear he is an expert on them. Seriously, I cannot speak for the state of mind or intent of certain admin. The issue of an unclear contract was brought up to the admin. I believe it is currently under review. It doesn't, however, change issues as a result of it. The issue of the contract could also be partially linguistic; the contract is first written in Chinese then later translated to English.
Aurochs, the Venter or PsyGuy the "Presumptor?"
Again, you are presumptuous!
I believe I stated that the school isn't for everyone. I also stated that some people will probably like working at THIS. I also stated that there are hard working teachers who have a positive outlook for the school. I (we) outline some of the issues with the school. If you are uncomfortable working in the this type of environment, it is recommended that you avoid applying to THIS. If you find the issues presented as petty and trivial, by all means, apply to THIS, I am sure if you meet their qualification, they will love to have you work for them.
I have no idea what you mean by "posting in every venue." I posted in the ISR members area review and in the forum so that both members and non- members get an opportunity to read about a group of teachers perspective on THIS.
Lastly, I do not hope nor wish the school to fail in its goal. It has high hopes of being on equal footing with ISB or WAB. If they accomplish this goal, I will be impress and very happy for them. The review wasn't about the school's goal. It is about the current situation.
Here's a another kicker,.... I have not decided if I will stay another year or not. if i am going to help this school reach its goal, the last thing I want are more disgruntled teachers. I cannot tell you more than this as they may be enough information to reveal my identity.
Lastly, I have to say its strange for you to defend "attacking me" by yet launching another wave of attack. The review I posted was edited by no less than 4 other teachers. This is not an emotional response to events, but a factual account of issues relating to the school. If they are petty and trivial, then it is for the reader to decide, not me. Its almost comical that you continuously attempt to "paint me" me as some irrational ranter, when it is you tossing the insults. I can only guess what you mean by the "Foreigner status" mean.... I can only guess it some new presumptuous attack on my character. Seriously, while passive aggressive behavior might be consider cute or tolerable by some people on this board, its tiresome and childish to me.
Aurochs