Int’l vs Can/US – how different? NA teaching is not for

longshikong
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Int’l vs Can/US – how different? NA teaching is not for

Post by longshikong »

In being forced to drop out of a B.Ed program due to a critical prac evaluation and a safety concern, I’m left questioning whether it’s just me or the classrooms I was in that makes regular teaching so demanding here. How different are int’l. schools generally?

After years of successfully teaching kids English in China, I returned to Canada to do a 1 yr. prim/jun B.Ed but just couldn't adapt so quickly to a western classroom. I had anarchy on my hands in kindergarten gym and was harshly criticized by a prof in a gr. 4 for defaulting to the same excessive ‘chalk and talk’ that the teacher relied on. I felt I'd need to surpass even the teachers’ performance to find teaching more rewarding than stress-inducing.

Had I known just how inclusive (diverse) N.A. classrooms had become, perhaps I would’ve reconsidered. Maybe it’s an age-related thing—both prac teachers, like me, are in their late 40s and we’ve all had previous careers. The kindergarten teacher took a planned 6 mo. leave of absence following my practicum admitting teaching hadn't become easier with experience.

I’d received recognition from students, parents, colleagues and superiors in China for my dedication to teaching. Pedagogical interests largely drew me to pursue a B.Ed but I didn’t expect needing more parenting than pedagogical skills in the classroom.

As I consider returning to China I need some advice:
a) Is it worth completing my degree (to teach in int’l schools)?
b) If so, what options do I have in completing my B.Ed degree?
westcoaster
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:51 pm

Post by westcoaster »

I understand where you are coming from as I have taught both in Asia and in Canada. I recommend that you finish your B.Ed. It will open up a lot of doors. I gather from your post that you need to re-do a practicum to complete your B.Ed. I'd suggest that you ask the practicum placement advisor at your university to find you a new school. Many people have had practicums that have not worked out and have gone on to successfully completing a practicum in a new school.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for you.
aussiechick
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Post by aussiechick »

I'm a bit confused as to how you can do a BEd in a year, in most countries it is a four year or at least a three year degree. So even if you manage to complete it, it may not be the most highly regarded qualification.

However, I woudn't let one bad practicum put you off. By all means persist and try again. But don't struggle through thinking that international teaching will be easy by comparison. That won't necessarily be the case, so you need to be honest with yourself about whether it is for you.
IAMBOG
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Post by IAMBOG »

Do your practicum again. I had three great friends fail their practicums the year I did my B.Ed.. All repeated it the following year and passed.

I had four years ESL experience before starting my practicum and I actually felt the teacher in the classroom was not as good a teacher as me. I'm not boasting, he was just not very good. He was old, out of ideas, mean and ready for retirement. Do the practicum again.

Aussiechick, in Canada (and maybe elsewhere) a B.Ed. can be a four (five?) year degree, or it can be a one year (four semester) extension to another bachelors degree. For example, I have a four year BA Hons in Geography plus a one year B.Ed.. Most provinces require five years of university beofre you can teach. It is perfectly acceptable to Canadian and international schools around the world.
Zsejanko

Post by Zsejanko »

You need a B.Ed to teach in most international schools. The only places that do not require it are ESL conversation classes, schools ( largely operated as a business ) etc or Japanese state schools ( as with the case of JET programme ). However, if you want to teach at an international school per se, then you will face stiff competition against those who have the B.Ed.

To aussiechick : In Canada, especially in Ontario, B.Eds are highly sought after because it is highly intensive in one year. Not only can it afford someone the license right away, but it is highly competitive to get in. A fairly decent University will usually accept 700 positions for around 2000 applicants. A really good University will usually accept 500 for around 3000 - 4000 applicants. So yes, it's intense.
Chinuk
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Post by Chinuk »

Dear Longshikong,

Was in the same position, having taught in China for 7 years (college and a small international school) before taking a year leave of absence to complete a Post Degree Program in BC. This was to get my teaching certification (which is NOT the same as a B.Ed. -- for that I had to do several more courses on top of the credits I had accrued from 2 years of distance ed.). I agree with the advice to complete your program, despite the difficulties, for the reasons other posters have already stated.

I've been teaching in Asia for 12 years now, and although I had a great practicum experience in Canada, with a master teacher who appreciated and helped me improve the teaching practices I had already developed when I came to the program, I'm not at all sure I would want to return to teaching in Canada. I've got used to having students who (mostly) don't do drugs, drink, smoke or have sex (yeah, it's kind of of like teaching in the '50s), and are really motivated to learn. Teachers are respected, and I feel like parents and teachers are on the same side -- the kids'. While being without a union means we're out there "on our own" most of the time, it also means I'm not part of an unhealthy adversarial system that pits teachers against administrators.

I've made my career in international education, and every year recommit to staying overseas because the benefits far outweigh the challenges. Getting the qualifications took a lot of hard work, but the investment of time and money has been more than repaid.
markholmes
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 10:54 pm

Post by markholmes »

A friend of mine failed his practicum and had to do it a year later. I just found out he got hired by a pretty good school in China.
heyteach
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Post by heyteach »

Yes, definitely finish your degree; having it will give you a wider net to explore.

Three months into my first overseas gig, I knew I would never teach in the U.S. again. I had done that for 22 years, and most of it was great, but the last couple of years, under the odious No Child Left Behind, with toxic parents and their messed-up kids, I thought I didn't want to teach anymore.

Certainly, it's not perfect here (I'm still in the same job, but ready to move on), but I've been quite happy and am looking forward to my next position.
sidinz
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:07 am

Post by sidinz »

I think I know where aussiechick is coming from. In other countries, B.Eds can't be completed the way described above and can only be done as a full 3 or 4-yr degree.
What you describe is called a Diploma of Teaching. I have one of those. After completing my undergraduate degree, I then obtained my Dip Teach which qualified me to be in the classroom.
So the statement above which specifies that people must have a B.Ed in order to get hired in decent international schools, is incorrect. Other countries have different systems. In the UK, what I call a Diploma of teaching is a PGCE - postgraduate certificate of education.
markholmes
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 10:54 pm

Post by markholmes »

[quote]To get straight to the point to even get in the door in an international school you need a Bachelors degree and a government teaching credential [/quote]
.
An M.Ed. from the UK or Canada won't get you a teaching credential in either of those countries. In the UK you need a PGCE and in Canada either a B.Ed. or PDP.
markholmes
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 10:54 pm

Post by markholmes »

I'm pretty sure you can't get a K-12 teaching certificate in Canada with only a Masters. You need a B.Ed. or PDP. You might be able to do that in the US, but not in Canada. A Masters (in the case of teachers) is taken after five years of bachelor level course.

You also can't get a teaching qualification in the UK with a M.Ed. (as far as I know). Of course, if it had the PGCE component in it, then you could, but the vital, obligatory component is the attainment of a PGCE, not a Masters.

A PGCE or B.Ed. is required in order to teach. This is the program that gives you the basic know-how of how to teach. Masters degrees are specialisations, such as Special Ed, Info Tech, Counselling, leadership/admin programs. None of these are stand alone programs that would allow you to gain a teaching certificate. They are extensions to your bachelor level teaching qualifications.

This may not be the case in the US, but as far as I know, that isn't the case in the UK or Canada. I would be happy to be corrected.
westcoaster
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:51 pm

Post by westcoaster »

[quote="markholmes"]I'm pretty sure you can't get a K-12 teaching certificate in Canada with only a Masters. You need a B.Ed. or PDP. You might be able to do that in the US, but not in Canada. A Masters (in the case of teachers) is taken after five years of bachelor level course.

You also can't get a teaching qualification in the UK with a M.Ed. (as far as I know). Of course, if it had the PGCE component in it, then you could, but the vital, obligatory component is the attainment of a PGCE, not a Masters.

A PGCE or B.Ed. is required in order to teach. This is the program that gives you the basic know-how of how to teach. Masters degrees are specialisations, such as Special Ed, Info Tech, Counselling, leadership/admin programs. None of these are stand alone programs that would allow you to gain a teaching certificate. They are extensions to your bachelor level teaching qualifications.
This may not be the case in the US, but as far as I know, that isn't the case in the UK or Canada. I would be happy to be corrected.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure you are right about this. I know that University of Calgary has a Master of Teaching program but it's not a true masters. In fact, on
their website they called it a "B.Ed (Master of Teaching)".
I know someone who has a M.Ed in music but has to go back and get her B.Ed to teach in the k-12 system here in BC.
goinggoinggone
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:38 pm

Post by goinggoinggone »

I think everyone is sort of arguing the same point without realizing it. As far as I understand in neither Canada or the U.S. (not as familiar with the UK system) does an MA alone qualify you to teach. For example, I completed a program that led to an MA and made me eligible for a teaching license in my home state, but I would not have been able to receive a teaching certificate just by completing an MA in education. I essentially completed a full, teacher education program that included a semester of full time student teaching, as well as, completed all the separate coursework required for an MA in education.

In both Canada and the U.S. you need some sort of teacher education program component that prepares you specifically for classroom teaching. The difference seems to be that in Canada you get a degree called a B.ed. which qualifies you for certification. In the states, however, the teacher education program you complete won't necessarily lead to a B.ed degree but will allow for certification as long as it meets state requirements for teacher licensure.
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