Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
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Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
IE camp is his way of mocking any anecdotal evidence I might present. A recruiter said something to me, so he learned the opposite at IE camp. It's a way of trolling or mocking because he only posts from trusted sources or personal experience, but the rest of us apparently have no access to the above. It doesn't matter that my former student teacher, who is a real person who was placed with me due partly to her interest in IE, got a job in Madrid. It doesn't matter that a recruiter told me to go with SA over ISS. It doesn't matter that I actually have real horse experience. He just counters with IE camp and claims my experiences are invalid.
He likes trolling me because I take the bait more often than I should. I really should just let him be, I know.
As to the rest of what you said, his response will be some nonsense about how recruiting doesn't only happen at fairs, so fair attendance is not indicative of recruiting practices. We have gone around and around on this. I will save you the time of responding, even though you are right.
My "one friends" anecdotes are because one is unlikely to have a lot of friends with the same experiences. At a truly international school, friends have a range of experiences and backgrounds, both before employment there and afterwards as they move forward.
He likes trolling me because I take the bait more often than I should. I really should just let him be, I know.
As to the rest of what you said, his response will be some nonsense about how recruiting doesn't only happen at fairs, so fair attendance is not indicative of recruiting practices. We have gone around and around on this. I will save you the time of responding, even though you are right.
My "one friends" anecdotes are because one is unlikely to have a lot of friends with the same experiences. At a truly international school, friends have a range of experiences and backgrounds, both before employment there and afterwards as they move forward.
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@Thames Pirate
No more than you always have one friend/colleague/student/ who is always the exact anecdotal data for whatever position you want to support.
Theres nothing nonsense about it your entire focus of marketability is on fairs, and ignoires all other avenues, which is why you conclude SA is always the superior choice because they have the most fairs, never mind that the majority of them are dump fairs.
No more than you always have one friend/colleague/student/ who is always the exact anecdotal data for whatever position you want to support.
Theres nothing nonsense about it your entire focus of marketability is on fairs, and ignoires all other avenues, which is why you conclude SA is always the superior choice because they have the most fairs, never mind that the majority of them are dump fairs.
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Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
I only post when I DO have something to say, not on every thread.
I am aware that there are other recruiting avenues besides fairs. Schrole, independent applications, etc. are certainly part of recruiting. That said, when one is comparing agencies, then one must compare fairs as well as databases. Well, SA wins.
I am aware that there are other recruiting avenues besides fairs. Schrole, independent applications, etc. are certainly part of recruiting. That said, when one is comparing agencies, then one must compare fairs as well as databases. Well, SA wins.
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@Thames Pirate
I also post when I also have something to contribute. I dont post on every thread
http://internationalschoolsreview.com/v ... f=1&t=6367
No SA doesnt always win, the recruitment experience for the right candidate in ISS supersedes that of SA. Again, SA is like H&M, and ISS a boutique.
I also post when I also have something to contribute. I dont post on every thread
http://internationalschoolsreview.com/v ... f=1&t=6367
No SA doesnt always win, the recruitment experience for the right candidate in ISS supersedes that of SA. Again, SA is like H&M, and ISS a boutique.
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Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
Sure, for the person who is successful in landing the dream job, whichever agency they used is best. For some candidates, one or the other is clearly better. For those who are as yet unsure what they want or don't have a specific target in mind, SA is better.
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@Thames Pirate
I wouldnt agree that SA is best for those who are unfocused on their objective, however Id agree its likely the most forgiving and most flexible of the two premium two agencies, but at that point Id recommend avoiding the premium agencies altogether and advise a combination of TIE, TES and CIS.
I wouldnt agree that SA is best for those who are unfocused on their objective, however Id agree its likely the most forgiving and most flexible of the two premium two agencies, but at that point Id recommend avoiding the premium agencies altogether and advise a combination of TIE, TES and CIS.
Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
Am I the only one who feels like I should be holding up score cards?
;)
So, I'm still not sure which would be better for my husband and I. We do want to end up in Europe, preferably SE but we wouldn't argue with another part. So it sounds like I should be looking at which schools will be present at which fairs and trying to get us invited.
But since we're also interested in Central and South America, should I be saving up for UNI, too? I mean, at this point we'll be saving for a year, so we may be able to pull off saving enough for two fairs, I don't know.
IT is something we've both wanted to do for years, but this year was the first where we really tried (we sent out more than fifty applications through school websites, TIE and TeacherHorizons--also a couple through Schole and Uptick). We got four schools seemingly interested, of which one was very exciting for us. Of the four, only two actually interviewed us (though they all said they wanted to). And of the two that interviewed us, one said they definitely wanted a second interview and the other said they'd get back to us. The first never emailed again, and as we had our own doubts about them we haven't tried to get into contact. The last one was the one we were really excited about and they said they'd be in touch in two to five weeks... it's been four and a half... so, maybe? But it doesn't feel likely. It seems like if we were their first choice they'd have contacted us sooner.
So I am concerned that the way we went about it doesn't have a very encouraging success rate. We're both experienced teachers and are pretty flexible. As far as I know our references should be very good. Our biggest negative is that we have three kids. We know that will disqualify us for some posts. So next year we want to try to maximize our chances of finding positions that will suit us in a location that we feel good about.
;)
So, I'm still not sure which would be better for my husband and I. We do want to end up in Europe, preferably SE but we wouldn't argue with another part. So it sounds like I should be looking at which schools will be present at which fairs and trying to get us invited.
But since we're also interested in Central and South America, should I be saving up for UNI, too? I mean, at this point we'll be saving for a year, so we may be able to pull off saving enough for two fairs, I don't know.
IT is something we've both wanted to do for years, but this year was the first where we really tried (we sent out more than fifty applications through school websites, TIE and TeacherHorizons--also a couple through Schole and Uptick). We got four schools seemingly interested, of which one was very exciting for us. Of the four, only two actually interviewed us (though they all said they wanted to). And of the two that interviewed us, one said they definitely wanted a second interview and the other said they'd get back to us. The first never emailed again, and as we had our own doubts about them we haven't tried to get into contact. The last one was the one we were really excited about and they said they'd be in touch in two to five weeks... it's been four and a half... so, maybe? But it doesn't feel likely. It seems like if we were their first choice they'd have contacted us sooner.
So I am concerned that the way we went about it doesn't have a very encouraging success rate. We're both experienced teachers and are pretty flexible. As far as I know our references should be very good. Our biggest negative is that we have three kids. We know that will disqualify us for some posts. So next year we want to try to maximize our chances of finding positions that will suit us in a location that we feel good about.
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You cant look at fair IS attendees and plan anything, you have to secure invitations and travel plans well before you will have a firmer understanding of which ISs will attend. This changes up to the morning of the fair.
UNI is an option, and there is a large concentration of LCSA ISs. It could be viable if that was your sole goal. SA would be better though towards a more general range of ISs.
Of course they all said they would have interviewed you, but thats just being polite, if they wanted to interview you they could have.
The rule is when an IS wants you they act like they want you.
You really sound like tourist teachers, lots of ITs want the EU, and it sounds like you just want to live the Mediterranean life and want an IS to provide the coin as well as educate your children. ISs tend to avoid those ITs like poison.
The real issue is that your kids are going to be a deal breaker. Your just too expensive of a logistical hire at anything outside an elite tier IS in the EU.
Well if you want to maximize your chances you can spend a lot of coin doing so. My advice is too register with SA if you choose a premium agency. Youd have the opportunity to attend the LON fair and you could attend the BOS or SF fairs for LCSA if the EU doesnt happen. You will also have a lot of convenience provided by the jobs database.
Lastly, you have to follow TIE and your not too late actually as Spring gets here a lot of vacancies are going to open in the EU, you need to be on everyone of those vacancies.
UNI is an option, and there is a large concentration of LCSA ISs. It could be viable if that was your sole goal. SA would be better though towards a more general range of ISs.
Of course they all said they would have interviewed you, but thats just being polite, if they wanted to interview you they could have.
The rule is when an IS wants you they act like they want you.
You really sound like tourist teachers, lots of ITs want the EU, and it sounds like you just want to live the Mediterranean life and want an IS to provide the coin as well as educate your children. ISs tend to avoid those ITs like poison.
The real issue is that your kids are going to be a deal breaker. Your just too expensive of a logistical hire at anything outside an elite tier IS in the EU.
Well if you want to maximize your chances you can spend a lot of coin doing so. My advice is too register with SA if you choose a premium agency. Youd have the opportunity to attend the LON fair and you could attend the BOS or SF fairs for LCSA if the EU doesnt happen. You will also have a lot of convenience provided by the jobs database.
Lastly, you have to follow TIE and your not too late actually as Spring gets here a lot of vacancies are going to open in the EU, you need to be on everyone of those vacancies.
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Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
The list of jobs changes the morning of the fair. The list of attendees, while possibly changing slightly late in the game, is generally available early and often somewhat similar to the previous year's list (for most major agencies) with a trend from previous years often continuing (ISS shrinking, SA fairs becoming more regionalised, etc.); you can get a good idea of which schools will be there.
Wanting Europe doesn't make a person a tourist teacher--just someone with different priorities and goals, and no, ISs don't necessarily avoid those teachers. If you are a good teacher with the desired skills and curriculum experience, they will take you. One reason big schools shy away from people with limited international experience is that they don't know how you will handle being an expat. Living in Paris sounds great--until you realise that things are *gasp* different in France! Depression, etc. can be problems, but a proven record of sticking out a contract in a tougher location reassures them that your spouse won't get so homesick that you leave after 6 months. A school doesn't generally care WHY you want a particular location.
I do agree that three kids is probably one of the reasons you aren't getting the responses you want.
I agree with PsyGuy about Search and the recommended fairs. You could also look at AASSA and their Atlanta fair. There is virtually no downside (other than the small fee) to being on TIE as well.
Wanting Europe doesn't make a person a tourist teacher--just someone with different priorities and goals, and no, ISs don't necessarily avoid those teachers. If you are a good teacher with the desired skills and curriculum experience, they will take you. One reason big schools shy away from people with limited international experience is that they don't know how you will handle being an expat. Living in Paris sounds great--until you realise that things are *gasp* different in France! Depression, etc. can be problems, but a proven record of sticking out a contract in a tougher location reassures them that your spouse won't get so homesick that you leave after 6 months. A school doesn't generally care WHY you want a particular location.
I do agree that three kids is probably one of the reasons you aren't getting the responses you want.
I agree with PsyGuy about Search and the recommended fairs. You could also look at AASSA and their Atlanta fair. There is virtually no downside (other than the small fee) to being on TIE as well.
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Disagree with @Thames Pirate, the vacancies change and many of those upper tier ISs have sparse vacancies, its not uncommon that they fill their vacancies in early and first night recruiting.
Wanting EU doesnt make you a tourist teacher, being a tourist teacher makes you a tourist teacher. recruiters know that theres a certain segment of the IE population whose lifestyle change is is the priority not the job. their rational is your only interested in providing and living some idealistic Mediterranean lifestyle and give the kids a better education, and they avoid those ITs like poison.
Living in Paris isnt drastically different, its no different from someone in Nebraska relocating to Manhattan, or someone in Portsmouth moving to Westminster. Add French and its no different, and it certainly isnt a hardship, if you cant adapt to Paris, you probably cant adapt anywhere.
There isnt a reason to choose AASSA and Uni, one of the other will suite your goals.
Wanting EU doesnt make you a tourist teacher, being a tourist teacher makes you a tourist teacher. recruiters know that theres a certain segment of the IE population whose lifestyle change is is the priority not the job. their rational is your only interested in providing and living some idealistic Mediterranean lifestyle and give the kids a better education, and they avoid those ITs like poison.
Living in Paris isnt drastically different, its no different from someone in Nebraska relocating to Manhattan, or someone in Portsmouth moving to Westminster. Add French and its no different, and it certainly isnt a hardship, if you cant adapt to Paris, you probably cant adapt anywhere.
There isnt a reason to choose AASSA and Uni, one of the other will suite your goals.
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Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
(The forum mod has removed this phrase and advises this poster to refrain from insults in the future in order to avoid moderation queue placement)
I AGREE that vacancies change. Schools attending don't change much, which is why I always advocate choosing fairs based on attendance rather than vacancies.
ALL people in IE want a lifestyle change; as you so frequently point out, there are lots of good jobs in DE. It's about fit and whether you can do the job, not about why you really want to live in Italy. Of course you want to live in Italy, or you wouldn't apply--they want people who want to be there. The difference is both the competitiveness (lots of people want to live in Italy) and the knowledge that you can handle all aspects of the job, including being an expat, the curriculum, etc. They don't care why you want to live in Italy, but they do care that they get someone who will do a good job for the duration of the contract, and international experience is proof that you will do a good job in spite of the distractions of expat life.
You say living in Paris isn't drastically different, but it is. Language aside, there are differences in so many small things--things that long time expats and ITs take for granted. We know that the process for acquiring a rental are different in a new country. We know that in some places stores are closed on Sundays. We know that little things like humour and sarcasm are different in different countries. We know that diets or the availability of products is different. We know that how we spend our leisure time will be different. Knowing those things doesn't mean a person can live with them, though. Homesickness and depression are real among expats, and people who have always lived in one country may THINK they want to live in Paris, but reality ends up being different. Experienced ITs have learned to roll with those differences. Proven international experience is not about having taught an international student body--you can do that in Manhattan or Miami. It isn't about IB--as you so frequently point out, there are TONS of IB schools in the US. It's about knowing a family can handle the day-to-day challenges of being an expat.
It's true that if you can't adapt to Paris, you can't adapt anywhere, but ASP doesn't want to find out the hard way that you can't adapt to Paris. They want to know that you CAN adapt to China, because after that Paris is easy! Again, this is the real reason that competitive schools want prior IE experience. They want to know you won't cut and run because of (well documented!) culture shock and transition difficulties. It has nothing to do with IE since, well, good teaching is good teaching.
I AGREE that vacancies change. Schools attending don't change much, which is why I always advocate choosing fairs based on attendance rather than vacancies.
ALL people in IE want a lifestyle change; as you so frequently point out, there are lots of good jobs in DE. It's about fit and whether you can do the job, not about why you really want to live in Italy. Of course you want to live in Italy, or you wouldn't apply--they want people who want to be there. The difference is both the competitiveness (lots of people want to live in Italy) and the knowledge that you can handle all aspects of the job, including being an expat, the curriculum, etc. They don't care why you want to live in Italy, but they do care that they get someone who will do a good job for the duration of the contract, and international experience is proof that you will do a good job in spite of the distractions of expat life.
You say living in Paris isn't drastically different, but it is. Language aside, there are differences in so many small things--things that long time expats and ITs take for granted. We know that the process for acquiring a rental are different in a new country. We know that in some places stores are closed on Sundays. We know that little things like humour and sarcasm are different in different countries. We know that diets or the availability of products is different. We know that how we spend our leisure time will be different. Knowing those things doesn't mean a person can live with them, though. Homesickness and depression are real among expats, and people who have always lived in one country may THINK they want to live in Paris, but reality ends up being different. Experienced ITs have learned to roll with those differences. Proven international experience is not about having taught an international student body--you can do that in Manhattan or Miami. It isn't about IB--as you so frequently point out, there are TONS of IB schools in the US. It's about knowing a family can handle the day-to-day challenges of being an expat.
It's true that if you can't adapt to Paris, you can't adapt anywhere, but ASP doesn't want to find out the hard way that you can't adapt to Paris. They want to know that you CAN adapt to China, because after that Paris is easy! Again, this is the real reason that competitive schools want prior IE experience. They want to know you won't cut and run because of (well documented!) culture shock and transition difficulties. It has nothing to do with IE since, well, good teaching is good teaching.
Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
Just an FYI that this conversation is a hijack and arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
I really should know better than to engage with him . . . . thanks!
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@mamava
This isnt a hijack, its an on point reply to the OP.
@Thames Pirate
We disagree, attending ISs change.
Motivations are part of fit, and being a tourist teacher generally doesnt fit into the ISs ethos.
No living in Paris is not drastically different. There isnt anything difficult being an expat, nothing different than moving anywhere including domestically.
This isnt a hijack, its an on point reply to the OP.
@Thames Pirate
We disagree, attending ISs change.
Motivations are part of fit, and being a tourist teacher generally doesnt fit into the ISs ethos.
No living in Paris is not drastically different. There isnt anything difficult being an expat, nothing different than moving anywhere including domestically.
Re: Recruiting agencies...Which is best?
Psyguy, you know nothing about me or my family. It so happens that my mother is French and I have a large extended family in France. I've lived in Paris, and I know what I'm getting into. I am not a tourist.
I'm open to what you have to say, but making assumptions about me like that just tells me I can't rely on you to base what you say on actual knowledge and facts.
I'm open to what you have to say, but making assumptions about me like that just tells me I can't rely on you to base what you say on actual knowledge and facts.