Overhere wrote:
> As a former BC teacher myself I thought you might find this article
> interesting
>
>
> http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... -to-surrey
>
> Good luck with your job search, and in the end the only people you have to
> satisfy are you and your family.
Thanks for the article :)
I'm so glad that all the BC teachers who got screwed by that 2002 government (and ALL the ones following) are actually getting the last laugh. But more importantly, the level of education in the province will surely rise with the kids being the highest beneficiaries. YAY!
I will start throwing my CV at them in the morning
Thanks again :)
2017 Fair Diaries?
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
@ TeacherIan: I certainly get it, and I don't think you should be ashamed of just "settling", and that term takes on new meaning when you get offered a job with three dependents anyway. It's not "settling" if you are putting the needs of your family above all else, and ultimately that's what we do. You'll end up where you are supposed to be, and slowly climb up the ladder, I have no doubt. I think the easy answer is that singles and teaching couples with no kids are always going to get the jobs, but that's just that: the easy answer. My current director has an uncanny ability to hire people who fit within the ethos of the school, and support the community. And most of these people are teaching couples with young children. Why? Because we are more likely to stick around. So there are, in fact, schools that will look at you having a family as an advantage. It means you won't be two-and-out. (And your next school won't be two and out. It sounds like you've served your time, so to speak.) Much, much luck to you and your family. Keep us posted.
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
The whole International Education world is built on the fact that many teachers WILL end up settling. Due to the crazy early deadlines required of teachers to give notice, teachers are often forced to take jobs that they are not enthused about - to support their families. As a math teacher, I never had to take a job I didn't really want, but I feel sympathy for others who have to. If there was nothing I wanted at the time, I would just wait - something good always showed up later.
And job fairs just plain bite. Useless in the time of Skype and Schrole.
And job fairs just plain bite. Useless in the time of Skype and Schrole.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
TeacherIan wrote:
> shadowjack wrote:
> > Just a note about "settling". If you have to "settle"
> > for a position that you applied for, why the heck did you even apply for it
> > in the first place? Sorry - I just don't get it. You apply to schools
> > because you would be happy to go there - not because you might have to
> > "settle" for it. If "settling" is what you view as you
> > did to get to your present school, that's just a sad statement.
> >
> > Sorry, just had to put that in there. I have never applied for a teaching
> > job where I was just "settling" and I have never started at a new
> > school without being excited by the prospects ahead. And I've been around
> > for awhile...
> Hi SJ - it must be very nice to be in your position, but not all of us are part of
> teaching couple with experience in good schools. Take me for instance. I have a
> trailing spouse and two school-aged kids and only 1.5 years of IS experience. I'm
> working at a school in China. It's a Tier 3 school (the only one that offered me a
> job when I started teaching internationally) and I can't stand it here. There's
> absolutely no CPD (other than the ones I pay for myself or offer to my colleagues)
> and the environment and pollution is toxic. I came to realize that if I stay here
> longer than my initial 2 year contract, my family will suffer. So, in November when
> they asked me to re-sign, I said no. Now I'm scrambling to find a job (72 CVs sent
> out and counting), so I can provide for my family. Search and ISS won't touch me
> because of my lack of experience and 3 dependents (pets, too!), so in the end, I just
> might have to settle for a less-than-ideal school. Are you saying that, if you were
> in my position, you would become unemployed instead of settling? It's easy to say you
> wouldn't settle when you have options. What happens to those ideals when you don't?
TeacherIan, I get my spouse settled into a career that's portable. If that means going back home, then I go back home to make it happen. I have worked in places that not many people wanted to work there to get ahead, but I chose to go there. Not settling, but because it was off the beaten track and because we had never been there before. Mrs. Shadowjack hasn't always been a teacher, but she had other skills that made her portable. We were a little different in that we went overseas when our kids were school age, but I have had to bite the bullet and pay tuition, fees, etc for two kids. I made about $1,000 a month after everything was done. Not great, but I bit my teeth and did it - and then leveraged my skills and fact that I knew what I was walking into and didn't complain, but that I couldn't stay given the current situation and admin ended up making me a better offer to keep me. Had it not happened, we would have packed up and gone home and regrouped and set out again. But I wouldn't have gone and applied around just to get a job internationally.
The other thing to always remember about IT is that you become really connected the longer you are international, especially if you are looking to move up. I make an effort to stay in touch with former colleagues (a) because I like them; and (b) because who knows what the future holds? One day they might be able to help me land that dream job - or vice versa. Plus, it's always nice to visit, and you can build up quite a network and have friends in many places to catch up with on holidays. Plus it is amazing how many people you end up working with who know people you know once you get to a certain level and years on the circuit. It's harder just starting out because at tier 3's most people are transitory, or married to a local and not moving. It's also harder now, I know, because the world has changed. When I started out it was a different world of international education out there - but if you develop the right skill set, network, get your spouse trained up (Mrs. Shadowjack had to go for a time without work because of her retraining, and we bit the bullet, planned carefully, and in the end it worked out), and are willing to take chances in interesting places, then things work out.
I'm not condemning anybody really. I AM condemning the idea of "settling". However, if your heart is set on international education and you are determined to do whatever it takes to get out there, then go for it. But what happens if you keep up the same pattern because of your situation? Do you have a plan to change it up to make your family more marketable? Are you applying at more family-friendly places like QSI? Is your wife able to train? Does she already have a degree that makes it easier to do this? Each situation is different and I am not trying to judge - but in my opinion, life is too short and the world is too big to just "settle". However, that's just my opinion - and that and 4 bucks will get you a small cappuccino at Starbucks :-)
> shadowjack wrote:
> > Just a note about "settling". If you have to "settle"
> > for a position that you applied for, why the heck did you even apply for it
> > in the first place? Sorry - I just don't get it. You apply to schools
> > because you would be happy to go there - not because you might have to
> > "settle" for it. If "settling" is what you view as you
> > did to get to your present school, that's just a sad statement.
> >
> > Sorry, just had to put that in there. I have never applied for a teaching
> > job where I was just "settling" and I have never started at a new
> > school without being excited by the prospects ahead. And I've been around
> > for awhile...
> Hi SJ - it must be very nice to be in your position, but not all of us are part of
> teaching couple with experience in good schools. Take me for instance. I have a
> trailing spouse and two school-aged kids and only 1.5 years of IS experience. I'm
> working at a school in China. It's a Tier 3 school (the only one that offered me a
> job when I started teaching internationally) and I can't stand it here. There's
> absolutely no CPD (other than the ones I pay for myself or offer to my colleagues)
> and the environment and pollution is toxic. I came to realize that if I stay here
> longer than my initial 2 year contract, my family will suffer. So, in November when
> they asked me to re-sign, I said no. Now I'm scrambling to find a job (72 CVs sent
> out and counting), so I can provide for my family. Search and ISS won't touch me
> because of my lack of experience and 3 dependents (pets, too!), so in the end, I just
> might have to settle for a less-than-ideal school. Are you saying that, if you were
> in my position, you would become unemployed instead of settling? It's easy to say you
> wouldn't settle when you have options. What happens to those ideals when you don't?
TeacherIan, I get my spouse settled into a career that's portable. If that means going back home, then I go back home to make it happen. I have worked in places that not many people wanted to work there to get ahead, but I chose to go there. Not settling, but because it was off the beaten track and because we had never been there before. Mrs. Shadowjack hasn't always been a teacher, but she had other skills that made her portable. We were a little different in that we went overseas when our kids were school age, but I have had to bite the bullet and pay tuition, fees, etc for two kids. I made about $1,000 a month after everything was done. Not great, but I bit my teeth and did it - and then leveraged my skills and fact that I knew what I was walking into and didn't complain, but that I couldn't stay given the current situation and admin ended up making me a better offer to keep me. Had it not happened, we would have packed up and gone home and regrouped and set out again. But I wouldn't have gone and applied around just to get a job internationally.
The other thing to always remember about IT is that you become really connected the longer you are international, especially if you are looking to move up. I make an effort to stay in touch with former colleagues (a) because I like them; and (b) because who knows what the future holds? One day they might be able to help me land that dream job - or vice versa. Plus, it's always nice to visit, and you can build up quite a network and have friends in many places to catch up with on holidays. Plus it is amazing how many people you end up working with who know people you know once you get to a certain level and years on the circuit. It's harder just starting out because at tier 3's most people are transitory, or married to a local and not moving. It's also harder now, I know, because the world has changed. When I started out it was a different world of international education out there - but if you develop the right skill set, network, get your spouse trained up (Mrs. Shadowjack had to go for a time without work because of her retraining, and we bit the bullet, planned carefully, and in the end it worked out), and are willing to take chances in interesting places, then things work out.
I'm not condemning anybody really. I AM condemning the idea of "settling". However, if your heart is set on international education and you are determined to do whatever it takes to get out there, then go for it. But what happens if you keep up the same pattern because of your situation? Do you have a plan to change it up to make your family more marketable? Are you applying at more family-friendly places like QSI? Is your wife able to train? Does she already have a degree that makes it easier to do this? Each situation is different and I am not trying to judge - but in my opinion, life is too short and the world is too big to just "settle". However, that's just my opinion - and that and 4 bucks will get you a small cappuccino at Starbucks :-)
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
reisgio wrote:
> @shadowjack
>
> I apply everywhere with my job and only by interviewing with them would I
> ever know if I wanted to work with them or for them. What, you think a
> person can know if he or she would like a school based off of its website
> alone? Oh, and this site's reviews too?
>
> Otherwise, to be clear to all those who can't read: I got offers! I got
> European offers! I said no because I don't like them. I said no. I am
> disillusioned with international education because I am smart and most in
> international education don't motivate me to want to work with them or for
> them. That simple. I am not going to take a job at a school to be
> surrounded by people who are not going to challenge me to be a better
> educator or a better/smarter/more capable person. What is so hard here?
> This has nothing to do with ego, it has to do with the truth. I stated it,
> and most of the other contributors in this thread don't want to hear it.
> That is all.
>
> I want to also make very clear that I am not being sarcastic when I say I
> am really happy I went and saw the light at the fair. I'm moving on and I
> am excited for new adventures.
Reisgo, through the six degrees of separation, it's amazing how many schools your network can tell you about. Using the paid side and experience to separate reality from perception, and knowing what you will and won't put up with also help to eliminate other schools that might seem a fit on the surface. There are 'good' schools out there that I wouldn't work at because I know they don't fit my philosophy. And I agree, you shouldn't take a job at a school if you aren't excited about it. Congratulations on making your decision and not settling.
> @shadowjack
>
> I apply everywhere with my job and only by interviewing with them would I
> ever know if I wanted to work with them or for them. What, you think a
> person can know if he or she would like a school based off of its website
> alone? Oh, and this site's reviews too?
>
> Otherwise, to be clear to all those who can't read: I got offers! I got
> European offers! I said no because I don't like them. I said no. I am
> disillusioned with international education because I am smart and most in
> international education don't motivate me to want to work with them or for
> them. That simple. I am not going to take a job at a school to be
> surrounded by people who are not going to challenge me to be a better
> educator or a better/smarter/more capable person. What is so hard here?
> This has nothing to do with ego, it has to do with the truth. I stated it,
> and most of the other contributors in this thread don't want to hear it.
> That is all.
>
> I want to also make very clear that I am not being sarcastic when I say I
> am really happy I went and saw the light at the fair. I'm moving on and I
> am excited for new adventures.
Reisgo, through the six degrees of separation, it's amazing how many schools your network can tell you about. Using the paid side and experience to separate reality from perception, and knowing what you will and won't put up with also help to eliminate other schools that might seem a fit on the surface. There are 'good' schools out there that I wouldn't work at because I know they don't fit my philosophy. And I agree, you shouldn't take a job at a school if you aren't excited about it. Congratulations on making your decision and not settling.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
TeacherIan - when I graduated it was similar. Out of my program, about 20 got jobs. Strangely enough, they were the teachers who were willing to go outside the cities and try out new places and adventures. I have also worked in the North because we had to go somewhere, we weren't willing to settle, and we had never been there before. At that time I went with no job, a wife and kids, but I ended up having the skill set and having the good fortune to land a continuing contract. I have worked in three Canadian jurisdictions and I have also been an unemployed teacher with kids in those same jurisdictions, with no family around to stay with etc. It's choices we made. So yes, I do understand where you are coming from and I can put myself in your shoes.
At the same time, we developed a plan, stuck to it, suffered through the hard times and kept working towards our goal, which didn't include going overseas. And here we are. Again, good luck to you in your search and may you land on your feet in a place that fits you better than the current place you are in. You are right in that if it isn't a good place for your family (or you, for that matter), it's better not to stay.
At the same time, we developed a plan, stuck to it, suffered through the hard times and kept working towards our goal, which didn't include going overseas. And here we are. Again, good luck to you in your search and may you land on your feet in a place that fits you better than the current place you are in. You are right in that if it isn't a good place for your family (or you, for that matter), it's better not to stay.
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TeacherIan
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:03 pm
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
@shadowjack
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate it.
My wife has earned her ECE diploma from a Canadian university and is now finishing off her BA with plans to get her teacher cert next year. We understand that there's going to be lean years until that happens and we're okay with that. We will make it work in the end. We have many friends in top tier schools around the world who will vouch for how awesome we are. wink wink
Thanks again :)
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate it.
My wife has earned her ECE diploma from a Canadian university and is now finishing off her BA with plans to get her teacher cert next year. We understand that there's going to be lean years until that happens and we're okay with that. We will make it work in the end. We have many friends in top tier schools around the world who will vouch for how awesome we are. wink wink
Thanks again :)
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
Shadowjack,
You wrote:
" We were a little different in that we went overseas when our kids were school age, but I have had to bite the bullet and pay tuition, fees, etc for two kids. I made about $1,000 a month after everything was done.'
"bite the bullet"? 1000 a month?
That sounds like the textbook definition of settling to me.
You wrote:
" We were a little different in that we went overseas when our kids were school age, but I have had to bite the bullet and pay tuition, fees, etc for two kids. I made about $1,000 a month after everything was done.'
"bite the bullet"? 1000 a month?
That sounds like the textbook definition of settling to me.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
Senator, we went to a good school where someone I got to know but had never met was able to give me what I believed was a balanced view. We didn't settle. It opened up doors and made us new friends who are friends for life. I gained new skills, taught new subjects, and learned a ton. How is that settling? Because I knew I would only make 1K a month and have to pay my kid's tuition? We had a plan, we knew where we wanted to go, and we were willing to pay the cost. Again, how is that "settling". BTW - I left a teaching position that paid me more than 100K a year to go and make 1K a month after all was said and done. Now please tell me I "settled". Oh - that 100K was what I earned as a classroom teacher - no admin brownie points or other duties involved.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
TeacherIan, it sounds like you are well on your way to having it sussed out. That plan is major :-)
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
$1,000 a month?
Yeah, that's definitely settling. No, I don't care even if it was your dream location, got you IB experience, and you only had 3 contact hours a week - it's still settling. And settling for something absolutely awful, no less.
How the heck did you even find such an awful job? It'd be hard to actually find a school paying that low.
Yeah, that's definitely settling. No, I don't care even if it was your dream location, got you IB experience, and you only had 3 contact hours a week - it's still settling. And settling for something absolutely awful, no less.
How the heck did you even find such an awful job? It'd be hard to actually find a school paying that low.
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
Jesus, Shadowjack. You replied 2 hours after my post!!! Don't you have a job?
And your reply is just classic rationalization. Which usually does follow when a person settles and wants others to think he didn't.
You didn't know that when you took that miserably low job that you would have positive experiences or meet any good people. So, you settled, but just got lucky. I'm not knocking you; if I had a non-working spouse and kids, I may have had to settle for some sh_t job too.
I just wonder why you got so worked up that you had to respond just 2 hours later.
And your reply is just classic rationalization. Which usually does follow when a person settles and wants others to think he didn't.
You didn't know that when you took that miserably low job that you would have positive experiences or meet any good people. So, you settled, but just got lucky. I'm not knocking you; if I had a non-working spouse and kids, I may have had to settle for some sh_t job too.
I just wonder why you got so worked up that you had to respond just 2 hours later.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: 2017 Fair Diaries?
Senator, different part of the world :-) It's a big place <grin>
And no, I didn't know whether it would be good experience - although, as I said in my post to Reisgo, there are ways of finding out about schools and whether they are fits besides looking at websites and Search. I used a guy I had never met, as I said, but had come to know via email correspondence before he ended up at the school where I went. It's a small world. Based on that, I BELIEVED I would have a good experience. In my life, most of the times when I have gone in on that belief, guess what? It has worked out well. If I don't have that belief, I don't go.
Again, if you know going in what you are walking into, and you are going not to work your way up the ladder, but because of the experience and opportunities to try out new things and learn new jobs. So please explain to me how, knowing all this and walking away from a job paying 100K + (which you conveniently ignored in your response) equates to "settling"?
And I wasn't worked up, but I assure you, I have never "settled" so far in my career - although one day when I age out, I might "settle" - or settle down :-) Remember not everybody is fortunate to live in the same time zone you do :-)
And no, I didn't know whether it would be good experience - although, as I said in my post to Reisgo, there are ways of finding out about schools and whether they are fits besides looking at websites and Search. I used a guy I had never met, as I said, but had come to know via email correspondence before he ended up at the school where I went. It's a small world. Based on that, I BELIEVED I would have a good experience. In my life, most of the times when I have gone in on that belief, guess what? It has worked out well. If I don't have that belief, I don't go.
Again, if you know going in what you are walking into, and you are going not to work your way up the ladder, but because of the experience and opportunities to try out new things and learn new jobs. So please explain to me how, knowing all this and walking away from a job paying 100K + (which you conveniently ignored in your response) equates to "settling"?
And I wasn't worked up, but I assure you, I have never "settled" so far in my career - although one day when I age out, I might "settle" - or settle down :-) Remember not everybody is fortunate to live in the same time zone you do :-)
Reply
@TeacherIan
I can understand your position, Im simply injecting that there is another side to that coin. You yourself said you could go to the northern region of CAN and build experience, you can do that. There isnt anything stopping you and it would be better for you and your family. Since based on your post youve resigned your position and after 75 application are still looking. BC isnt as bad as Ive heard lately, and the job market in BC is improving. It may not be where it needs to eb for you to be competitive, but there are options back in CAN, and thats what
I agree with @resigio, there are logistical factors such as family sixe that often make or break an IT, and some that are non starters. WE is a classic example, you cant afford a family of 4 on one ITs salary, and kids are cost.
@Walter is bunk again, apparently only leadership can know anything, that ITs cant make observations and make conclusions based on them that are valid. ITs know because they live it day to day. Still doesnt know what they think they know.
I agree with the gnome, $1K is just rationalizing settling.
I can understand your position, Im simply injecting that there is another side to that coin. You yourself said you could go to the northern region of CAN and build experience, you can do that. There isnt anything stopping you and it would be better for you and your family. Since based on your post youve resigned your position and after 75 application are still looking. BC isnt as bad as Ive heard lately, and the job market in BC is improving. It may not be where it needs to eb for you to be competitive, but there are options back in CAN, and thats what
I agree with @resigio, there are logistical factors such as family sixe that often make or break an IT, and some that are non starters. WE is a classic example, you cant afford a family of 4 on one ITs salary, and kids are cost.
@Walter is bunk again, apparently only leadership can know anything, that ITs cant make observations and make conclusions based on them that are valid. ITs know because they live it day to day. Still doesnt know what they think they know.
I agree with the gnome, $1K is just rationalizing settling.