That depends whats a decent quality of life for you? How much savings do you want? How much traveling?
My experience is you dont really have a lot of time to travel, when i was in Japan except really during break periods. So if your idea of traveling is getting out to other parts of Japan during those times, I'd say you could afford that.
Look at it this way, you can live well, live cheap, or live free. Pick one, then if your really disciplined pick half of another. Thats about what you'll be able to do
Tokyo v Hong Kong?
Re: Amended
[quote="PsyGuy"]Can we amend Jakarta to Indonesia, because then I'd agree with you hands down???[/quote]
Ditto. Have to say I love Indonesia but hate Jakarta.
I find Singapore to be so bland.
Ditto. Have to say I love Indonesia but hate Jakarta.
I find Singapore to be so bland.
To Dreamgiver : Let's put it this way, to give you ballpark figures. I make $ 7000 US or CDN [u]AFTER [/u]Japanese income taxes. Total bills ( rent, groceries, utilities, public transportation ) are around $ 1000. The rent I have in Tokyo is actually cheap as the school covers a generous portion of the rent. I only pay around $ 600 for the rent. Some of my colleagues prefer to find their own places / homes as they have families and they pay around $ 1800 - $ 2000 in rent. The utilities in Tokyo are fairly cheap (surprise, surprise). I usually pay around $ 150 all up for gas, electricity AND water. Internet is around $ 60. My cell phone plan (data plan) is around $ 60.
So, all up, I bank a good $ 5000 - $ 6000 every month. I travel internationally to Europe, Asia, Africa or wherever I fancy around 3 times a year ( during May for Golden Week, summer months and of course, the winter break ). I also travel a fair bit on long weekends around the country. I go out every weekend to enjoy the nightlife or numerous cultural events they have in the city.
I have 10 years teaching experience at a really good international school.
Things of caution when working in Tokyo or anywhere in Japan for that matter:
1) Work hard : Although the staff is 90% foreigners and the student body is more or less foreign, the owners or Board of Directors are usually headed by wealthy Japanese administrators, who more often than not, have SEPARATE offices for their Japanese administrators that make the school run a bit smoothly. For all those who worked in Japan before, you can agree with me that the work ethic is top notch. They expect hard working people because the pay is high and they provide a lot of extra benefits and perks.
2) It's highly competitive to get in : Most teachers in the staff are veterans in Japan ( have been here for over 10 years, married to Japanese citizens, have children here etc etc ). No one ever leaves as the situation is more often good than bad. The salary is too high to walk away from even after the high prices. Hiring is kept within the small circle of international schools or big competitive fairs, usually held in Cambridge, London or Bangkok.
However, the pros highly outweigh the cons. Even "horrible" Japanese international schools are decent in comparison to many 2nd tier schools you find around the world because the students are wonderful (whether a high national or foreign population ). Must be the cultural work ethic rubbing off on the kids.
So, all up, I bank a good $ 5000 - $ 6000 every month. I travel internationally to Europe, Asia, Africa or wherever I fancy around 3 times a year ( during May for Golden Week, summer months and of course, the winter break ). I also travel a fair bit on long weekends around the country. I go out every weekend to enjoy the nightlife or numerous cultural events they have in the city.
I have 10 years teaching experience at a really good international school.
Things of caution when working in Tokyo or anywhere in Japan for that matter:
1) Work hard : Although the staff is 90% foreigners and the student body is more or less foreign, the owners or Board of Directors are usually headed by wealthy Japanese administrators, who more often than not, have SEPARATE offices for their Japanese administrators that make the school run a bit smoothly. For all those who worked in Japan before, you can agree with me that the work ethic is top notch. They expect hard working people because the pay is high and they provide a lot of extra benefits and perks.
2) It's highly competitive to get in : Most teachers in the staff are veterans in Japan ( have been here for over 10 years, married to Japanese citizens, have children here etc etc ). No one ever leaves as the situation is more often good than bad. The salary is too high to walk away from even after the high prices. Hiring is kept within the small circle of international schools or big competitive fairs, usually held in Cambridge, London or Bangkok.
However, the pros highly outweigh the cons. Even "horrible" Japanese international schools are decent in comparison to many 2nd tier schools you find around the world because the students are wonderful (whether a high national or foreign population ). Must be the cultural work ethic rubbing off on the kids.
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inspiration
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:52 am
Caveats
@inspiration:
His numbers are ball park accurate but keep in mind three VERY important caveats:
1) He is at one of the high tier 1/elite schools. Thats not a job opportunity you can just walk into, and it doesnt describe the majority of teaching contract scenarios.
2) His school HEAVILY subsidizes his housing, again the majority of non elite schools arent going to include that.
3) At that level competition is ULTRA competitive. This is like the fortune 100 executive level of international teaching. You are also working a LOT (given if money is your motivator, its probably worth it) but 60 hour work weeks are common.
His numbers are ball park accurate but keep in mind three VERY important caveats:
1) He is at one of the high tier 1/elite schools. Thats not a job opportunity you can just walk into, and it doesnt describe the majority of teaching contract scenarios.
2) His school HEAVILY subsidizes his housing, again the majority of non elite schools arent going to include that.
3) At that level competition is ULTRA competitive. This is like the fortune 100 executive level of international teaching. You are also working a LOT (given if money is your motivator, its probably worth it) but 60 hour work weeks are common.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
[quote="dreamgiver"]I am thinking of applying to a school in Tokyo. I would love to live in Tokyo. However two of my major goals when I go abroad is to do as much travel as possible & save some money. Everything I read on ISR sings the praises of the school and Toyko except cost of living. Staff say the housing allowance is not at all adequate and you must add a lot of your own money. So my question to those of you with experience in Tokyo: once I pay for part of the housing and pay for basic living expenses (not lots of eating out) will I be able to have a decent quality of life, afford to do a lot of travel and save some? I have 16 years experience so would hopefully be higher on the pay scale. Thanks for your advice.[/quote]
It will really depend on the area and the base salary. We lived in a suburb west of Tokyo and had a nice 3 bedroom little townhouse for 200,000 yen per month. We both made pretty good money by all but ASIJ standards and were able to live well and save some money (although taxes, health insurance go up your second year and do take a bite out of your pay). Groceries weren't as expensive as you hear. I mean you can buy a $20 orange somewhere in Tokyo, but why would you (unless you were looking for the perfect gift).
Great public transport and nice little neighborhoods around the train stations. Enjoyed it and would love to go back.
It will really depend on the area and the base salary. We lived in a suburb west of Tokyo and had a nice 3 bedroom little townhouse for 200,000 yen per month. We both made pretty good money by all but ASIJ standards and were able to live well and save some money (although taxes, health insurance go up your second year and do take a bite out of your pay). Groceries weren't as expensive as you hear. I mean you can buy a $20 orange somewhere in Tokyo, but why would you (unless you were looking for the perfect gift).
Great public transport and nice little neighborhoods around the train stations. Enjoyed it and would love to go back.
Perspective
I dont want to oversimplify but the livability of any place, regardless of income and location has more to do with you, your ability to budget, and what kind of lifestyle you want to live. There are a lot of ESL teachers getting by on around 10K RMB a month in China, and there are teachers in Japan with half a million yen a month who manage to spend it all before their next paycheck. Anywhere is "doable" on a very wide range of salaries, it just depends if you want to live the lifestyle on $X salary....
[quote="inspiration"]To Android: Are you totally sure your figures are accurate? $ 1000 (total bills) - $ 600 (rent) - $ 150 (utilities) - $ 60 (internet) - $ 60 (cell phone) = $ 130. What are you eating, then???
And, how much do you invest in TSE, if you don't mind?[/quote]
Hello,
Yes, the figures are pretty accurate. I think a lot of people have been "sold" on the idea that everything in Tokyo is that expensive. It's not. As far as groceries go ( I forgot to include it in ), I am spending around $ 300 US a month. I cook a lot (as I have experienced all the fine wine and dining you can get in Japan over 8 years here ). At decent-priced restaurants, you can get a meal for around $ 12 ( and this is pretty good quality stuff ). Fast food restaurants are in the $ 7 range ( same as home ). Expensive restaurants are around $ 50 and up a plate ( again, same as home ).
As far as what Psyguy says, don't be discouraged. Most Japanese schools ( if they are 2nd tier ), most can bank up to $ 2000 - $ 3000 without dependents. If you have dependents then, it would be very hard as if you are banking $ 1500 - $ 2000, then that doesn't leave much for your dependent at all ( UNLESS the school covers their expenses which most premier schools in Japan do ).
As far as working hours : I work 50 - 55 hours ( OF MY OWN CHOICE ). Weekends, national holidays, school breaks are all our own time...but I choose to work because I do love my work. It all depends on how you want to make it. There are some teachers who work less than 40 hours a week and they get away with it.
And, how much do you invest in TSE, if you don't mind?[/quote]
Hello,
Yes, the figures are pretty accurate. I think a lot of people have been "sold" on the idea that everything in Tokyo is that expensive. It's not. As far as groceries go ( I forgot to include it in ), I am spending around $ 300 US a month. I cook a lot (as I have experienced all the fine wine and dining you can get in Japan over 8 years here ). At decent-priced restaurants, you can get a meal for around $ 12 ( and this is pretty good quality stuff ). Fast food restaurants are in the $ 7 range ( same as home ). Expensive restaurants are around $ 50 and up a plate ( again, same as home ).
As far as what Psyguy says, don't be discouraged. Most Japanese schools ( if they are 2nd tier ), most can bank up to $ 2000 - $ 3000 without dependents. If you have dependents then, it would be very hard as if you are banking $ 1500 - $ 2000, then that doesn't leave much for your dependent at all ( UNLESS the school covers their expenses which most premier schools in Japan do ).
As far as working hours : I work 50 - 55 hours ( OF MY OWN CHOICE ). Weekends, national holidays, school breaks are all our own time...but I choose to work because I do love my work. It all depends on how you want to make it. There are some teachers who work less than 40 hours a week and they get away with it.
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inspiration
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:52 am
To Android:
Thank you for your clarification and encouragement. Your input based on your knowledge and experience is highly valued and appreciated by teachers interested in Japan.
I have another question for you.
[quote="Android"]Even "horrible" Japanese international schools are decent in comparison to many 2nd tier schools you find around the world ...[/quote]
Which international schools in Japan would you consider as "horrible", and why?
Thank you for your clarification and encouragement. Your input based on your knowledge and experience is highly valued and appreciated by teachers interested in Japan.
I have another question for you.
[quote="Android"]Even "horrible" Japanese international schools are decent in comparison to many 2nd tier schools you find around the world ...[/quote]
Which international schools in Japan would you consider as "horrible", and why?
Sorry
The problem with that question is that no ones going to really agree as horrible is pretty subjective especially in a Japan where the difference between the best and the worst schools are very narrow. Its also easy to magnify those differences to appear bigger then they really are. For instance Katoh School in southern Japan I would consider one of the "horrible" schools compared to somewhere like ASIJ, and while they have there differences, its still in my opinion compared to some of the really awful schools the world over as a decent place to work (the schedule and hours can be a pain, and the atmosphere at the school makes you feel insignificant, etc, etc). Its easy to get tunnel vision and focus on soemthing like "its not tokyo", or "the money isnt as good" or anyone of another reasons, but the reality is not everyone can be the great elite schools, but theres rally nothing "wrong" with any of them.
Without naming any names in particular, I would say that in Japan, these are the qualities of a school that a teachers here would consider " horrible " off the bat :
1) Pays around 300, 000 yen starting ( $ 3860 USD / month ). Most 2nd tier schools in Japan start their teachers at the very least 360, 000 yen. ( $ 4631 USD / month ).
2) Doesn't provide free housing.
3) If they do provide some sort of allowance for housing, it barely covers 50 % of it.
4) The curriculum is largely based on a Japanese model despite having an English immersion program. ( Read: Not too much flexibility, innovation, progression etc ).
5) For-profit
************************************************************
Btw, having a fully or mostly NATIONAL ( i.e. Japanese ) student body is considered a good thing by many international teachers here. Japanese students ( esp. those who attend international schools ) come from very wealthy families and have excellent work ethic. Many "international teachers " qualify a national student body as a negative factor and I am not really sure why. With the case of Japan, this is a great thing. Not sure about all other countries.
1) Pays around 300, 000 yen starting ( $ 3860 USD / month ). Most 2nd tier schools in Japan start their teachers at the very least 360, 000 yen. ( $ 4631 USD / month ).
2) Doesn't provide free housing.
3) If they do provide some sort of allowance for housing, it barely covers 50 % of it.
4) The curriculum is largely based on a Japanese model despite having an English immersion program. ( Read: Not too much flexibility, innovation, progression etc ).
5) For-profit
************************************************************
Btw, having a fully or mostly NATIONAL ( i.e. Japanese ) student body is considered a good thing by many international teachers here. Japanese students ( esp. those who attend international schools ) come from very wealthy families and have excellent work ethic. Many "international teachers " qualify a national student body as a negative factor and I am not really sure why. With the case of Japan, this is a great thing. Not sure about all other countries.
I also would like to add that if we were to compare the "horrible" Japanese international schools to other schools around the world, Japan would be the better place to go. For one thing, the culture is very accommodating to foreigners. In fact, you actually start to feel ungrateful because all the problems that one complains about is really not a problem ( e.g. " Oh, one parent wanted to talk to me about the report card ". ). To many of us, this seems normal, right? In Japanese international schools ( whether the parent is a foreigner or not ), this is a big 'affront' and is more often than not avoided. Parents have a very high regard of teachers so they usually like to support teachers rather than confront them. Even if the school was "horrible", you will still find many pros within the context...that's why I put quotation marks on the adjective of "horrible".
But then again, I do love working in Japan. It's all very simple to me :
a) I get paid a lot in yen
b) The parents are supportive
c) The students are excellent
d) The staff is professional, dedicated and qualified
e) The country and its culture suit me
These are common factors that most teachers in Japanese international schools talk about. Perhaps the competition to get into international schools in Japan is fierce is simply because no one wants to leave their posts.
But then again, I do love working in Japan. It's all very simple to me :
a) I get paid a lot in yen
b) The parents are supportive
c) The students are excellent
d) The staff is professional, dedicated and qualified
e) The country and its culture suit me
These are common factors that most teachers in Japanese international schools talk about. Perhaps the competition to get into international schools in Japan is fierce is simply because no one wants to leave their posts.