Ghosted?

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slee437
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 11, 2022 8:36 am

Ghosted?

Post by slee437 »

(Reposted from members forum hoping to get more advice!)

Hey y'all!

I don't know if I am being paranoid, but I got an employment offer with a contract draft by email from an international school three days ago. They told me I should read it carefully and get back to them with any concerns and comments etc. and that the next step was to get the head of school to sign and then me to sign and send it back to them. I got back to them within a day, but I've not heard back from them till now. Is this a normal timeline or should I still be looking as I have been ghosted? First time applying to an international school, so I'm a bit unsure and worried. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10434
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

This time of year its a little early to be paranoid, three days isnt long considering most leaders and ISs do HR poorly. Typically that range of 1-2 weeks around 10 days is to start being concerned with the legitimacy of an offer.
You are under no obligation to stop looking just because you have a potential offer. Many ITs have found themselves in the position of having multiple offers to consider in the same span of time. An IT with an interview on Monday and Thursday for different ISs gets an offer from the IS they interviewed with on Monday on Wednesday, there is no reason to cancel the Thursday interview with the other IS. That IS then makes an offer on Friday, at which time a third IS, one the IT really likes wants to schedule an interview for next week Tuesday. There is no reason to decline the third interview. The ITs consideration is not an obligation to any IS.
At this point all youve done if I understand the timeline is agree to the terms and conditions of the offer, the IS has yet to execute it and you havent executed yet, always be the last to sign/chop seal, that way once youve executed the contracted your holding a complete contract in your hands and their copy/version is for their records.
After waiting a full week, contacting the IS and inquiring when you can receive the executed (signed/chopped/sealed) contract is appropriate. If youve done that waiting at most a week and reasonably only a few more days and you find their assurances, or reasoning, or further wait time excessive, than putting the ISs offer off to the side and assume they have lost interest is not unreasonable. This time of the year things have to move very quickly and excessive waiting just isnt acceptable. Its about three months until ITs start on site, and there is a lot of things to do in that time that waiting on documents that are all internally generated is neither realistic or tolerable. Its very indicative of what is to come.
Granted there are leaders that do a lot better at academics and management issues that HR is an abnormality, and many leaders hand that off to another office (HR, Business), or person (Office manager, Secretary) in the IS, but HR is responsible to leadership too, and if that kind of sloppy, inattentive behavior is accepted its because leadership has allowed it to, and thats leaderships failure.
Until you have that properly executed contract in your possession you are under no obligation to do anything or stop anything.
Its a little different at REs and fairs where a leader or recruiter cant complete a contract on site or over the weekend. Some leaders come prepared and can print full contracts at the event and bring the chop/seals with them, many do not. In that case what the IS and IT complete is a letter of intent or a MOU (Memorandum Of Understanding). Its a simplified agreement that the IS wants to employ the IT under specific terms that include salary, benefits, job assignment and length of service descriptions. Once an IT and IS have completed that the ITs participation from the RE/fair is typically finished, and the IS removes the vacancy from availability. It doesnt always work that way, and in the vast majority of the time when it doesnt its usually at the ITs disadvantage.
The situation changes when the wait is over external documents, that means in most cases something that the IS has to apply for and obtain from another government office, often a permit or authorization from a ministry such as immigration, but could be some kind of document from a union office or similar. Contracts are almost universally written to include language that failure to secure one of these external documents nullifies/voids the contract without penalty. ISs, leaders, and agency repps generally consider that any such wait for these documents still obligates the IT to the IS, but that doesnt have to be the ITs position though many agency repps will not allow an IT to continually use their resources in their job search. SA for example considers the agreement fulfilled and the ITs participation completed. If for some reason things happen and the IS has to nullify/void the contract it is entirely at the repps discretion whether to reopen and readmit the IT to job search resources again.

A week isnt unreasonable, two weeks is without compelling reasons and explanations and a specific time period for remedy. Until that time you have a fully completed contract in your possession you are under no obligation to do or cease doing anything. Past two weeks without acceptable communication its reasonable to consider the IS has lost interest.
sonicsnake
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 15, 2022 4:55 am

Re: Ghosted?

Post by sonicsnake »

It could be that the HR is unwell, I recently didn't get a response for 5 days, but emailed the Head and they told me that the HR were unfortunately off with COVID.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10434
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@sonicsnake

So not having a plan to cover for HR is a reasonable excuse for not doing HR?
admin
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:11 pm

Re: Ghosted?

Post by admin »

Here is the link to an ISR Discussion Topic on this subject: Ghosted
https://internationalschoolsreviewdiscu ... 5/ghosted/
Heliotrope
Posts: 1092
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @sonicsnake
>
> So not having a plan to cover for HR is a reasonable excuse for not doing
> HR?

I agree. There's no excuse. At the very very least they could have an out-of-office reply explaining that it might take a while before they'll reply, but it's not very hard to do a bit more than that.
slee437
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 11, 2022 8:36 am

Re: Ghosted?

Post by slee437 »

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments! The school did get back to me with a contract, but communication has been like pulling teeth :/ Replies to emails are taking at least a week, and it is honestly making me feel really anxious because it is quite late in the game, and I'm relocating from China with pets, so I've already booked things. I haven't been teaching internationally for that long, but of all of the schools I've worked for, I've had much better communication with HR with them taking a few days tops to answer back to emails. Fingers crossed that all goes well, but also bracing myself for being ghosted :/
shopaholic
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:42 pm

Re: Ghosted?

Post by shopaholic »

Where is the school? Can you tell us the country?
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

It might help you feel better that often the worst aspect of IE an IS does is HR.
Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Comment

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> It might help you feel better that often the worst aspect of IE an IS does
> is HR.

I agree with @PsyGuy.

I know plenty of schools that are very good but have a HR department that will sometimes drop the ball. I think a bad HR department alone shouldn't make you disqualify a school. However, in my experience, a good HR department does usually mean the school is generally well-run.
I'm currently at a school with a very good and pro-active HR department and at times it can really make your life a lot easier.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10434
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

Im not as forgiving or lenient as @Heliotrope. There are plenty of IS HR departments that go far below the occasional dropping of the ball. There are HR offices that are horribly, horribly managed, and the day they get something right is a day marked on a calendar.
I am also of the position that you cant say an IS is great by excepting and excluding all the things its not great at. A lot of the things ITs care about are HR related. If an ISs HR is poor it contributes poorly to the overall IS making it poorer.
There are plenty of ISs though that aside from HR are managed well and have positive productive teaching and working experiences.
slee437
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 11, 2022 8:36 am

Re: Ghosted?

Post by slee437 »

I won't name the school because I am contracted to work there this upcoming year, but it is a school in Europe :/
I'm feeling a bit antsy because I honestly have never worked with HR that is THIS unresponsive and has never met a deadline they have set. They said it is because they are really understaffed (which I totally understand), but they still haven't sent me the original and physical copy of my contract (but they have sent me the scans of it). Emails have been sent with no reply, not even a short "well-received." The only reassuring point right now is that I am working with the relocation manager the school pays for to procure an apartment and make sure my arrival is a "soft-landing." I don't know if I'm just being paranoid, but of all the schools I've worked with (albeit only 3), I have never not received replies to emails.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10434
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

If they have time to make excuses for not replying they have time to just reply. If they have time to make scans, they have time to post original/physical copies.
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