What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

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Verano
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What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by Verano »

What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?
Our school is tiny and is going to eventually close in a few years. Therefore, combined classes are inevitable in the future. However, the English teacher has asked if we can combine the Grade 9 & 10 English classes together for next scool year, because she thinks that it will be good for the students. I personally think that developmentally, Grade 9s probably need their own class and Grade 10s can have a year to prepare for the DP program. Does anybody have any research concerning benefits or disadvantages of combining classes?
shadowjack
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by shadowjack »

I think it is a win win for a small school if the classes are smaller. If you have 5 of each, combine to ten. Rotate your curriculum over a two year cycle so that it doesn't matter who enters which grade it will be new material. Pitch your expectations high to the grade 9s and higher to the grade 10s. I think you might be pleasantly surprised how students push each other and what the mix does for student discussion, confidence, etc...
Thames Pirate
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by Thames Pirate »

I think it's great! There is no single skill or concept or novel that must be taught at a certain time or in a certain order for the overwhelming majority of subjects. We know that in many countries students, particularly in a highly mobile population or where language might be a factor, might be in a grade other than what their chronological age might dictate. We also know that students come with a range of abilities and motivation levels, and we have to differentiate instruction already. So what's the big deal?
FV2020
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by FV2020 »

If they are MYP curriculum, it could make sense; the standards are the exact same for grade 9 and 10. Otherwise, it would take a lot of curriculum planning in order to do it in a meaningful way. Typically, the grade 10 students would read more complex material and write about more complex topics, and the grade 9 students would need direct instruction for things that the grade 10s should already be familiar with. Ultimately, it’s just a whole lot of work for that teacher beyond normal differentiation. It’s two separate classes in one space. If the school is in financial trouble and doing this out of necessity, then there’s your answer.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

Does your IS use MYP?
How many students are in each class.

If the IT is getting an extra prep out of combining two small classes, I can see why they would advocate for combining them. Theres also the benefit of having some mentoring between the two age groups.

IB students should be preparing for DIP before there last year of MYP or year 10.
While the standards are the same, they arent very long, 50 hours a year. You can get that done in half a term. Thats not a lot of planning.

Even with other curriculum its not a lot of planning. Either:
1) Choose an author like Austen and cover the works over an expanded two years (call it Pre-Diploma) have them compare and contrast it to some of the film (read Pride and Prejudice and have them watch Bridgerton).
2) Choose a text and have the year 10 students do a critical ana1ysis reading, while the year 9 students do a read, reflect, comment read of the material.
Verano
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by Verano »

Thank you everyone for your input! I think my principal decided not to combine classes for now.
MusicTravel30
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by MusicTravel30 »

Verano wrote:
> What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes
> together?
> Our school is tiny and is going to eventually close in a few years.
> Therefore, combined classes are inevitable in the future. However, the
> English teacher has asked if we can combine the Grade 9 & 10 English
> classes together for next scool year, because she thinks that it will be
> good for the students. I personally think that developmentally, Grade 9s
> probably need their own class and Grade 10s can have a year to prepare for
> the DP program. Does anybody have any research concerning benefits or
> disadvantages of combining classes?


I have read good things about combining grade levels. Plus, if you are already differentiating any way, just continue with that. Use the older and/or stronger students to tutor the younger and/or weaker ones if needed. It is a way to show mastery of a topic, to be able to teach or tutor the topic to someone else. Should work out fine.
shadowjack
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by shadowjack »

FV2020 wrote:
> If they are MYP curriculum, it could make sense; the standards are the
> exact same for grade 9 and 10. Otherwise, it would take a lot of curriculum
> planning in order to do it in a meaningful way. Typically, the grade 10
> students would read more complex material and write about more complex
> topics, and the grade 9 students would need direct instruction for things
> that the grade 10s should already be familiar with. Ultimately, it’s just a
> whole lot of work for that teacher beyond normal differentiation. It’s two
> separate classes in one space. If the school is in financial trouble and
> doing this out of necessity, then there’s your answer.

I would disagree on your point that the standards are 'exactly' the same. While there is some overlap in language, MYP 4 is NOT assessed (and should not be assessed) the same as MYP 5. It needs to be holistically assessed in between MYP 3 criteria and MYP 5 criteria. I would hate to be an MYP 4 student being assessed and held to MYP 5 standards and expectations.
sid
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by sid »

I agree with your preferred approach but I need to point out that it’s not official IB protocol. IB publishes criteria and objectives for years 1,3 and 5. Schools make individual decisions about how to approach years 2 and 4, and some do indeed apply year 5 criteria to year 4.
PsyGuy
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Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

I concur with @Sid, there are ISs and its not a trivial number of them, that see MYP 4 as an extension or prep of MYP 5.
FV2020
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by FV2020 »

There is no criteria written specifically for year 4, so in practice the schools I’ve worked at use the year 5 criteria for both years. Beyond that, there’s only minimal difference between the year 3 and year 5 criteria anyway. Take a look at criteria A for example:

In year 3 the student:
i. provides perceptive identification and explanation of the content, context, language, structure, technique and style, and explains the relationships among texts thoroughly
ii. provides perceptive identification and explanation of the effects of the creator’s choices on an audience
iii. gives detailed justification of opinions and ideas with a range of examples, and thorough explanations; uses accurate terminology
iv. perceptively compares and contrasts features within and between genres and texts.

In year 5 the student:
i. provides perceptive - of the content, context, language, structure, technique, style of text(s) and the relationship among texts
ii. perceptively - the effects of the creator’s choices on an audience
iii. gives detailed justification of opinions and ideas with a range of examples, and thorough explanations; uses accurate terminology
iv. perceptively compares and contrasts by making extensive connections in features across and within genres and texts.
shadowjack
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by shadowjack »

In my subject area there are clear differences. [quote=FV2020 post_id=61440 time=1623526019 user_id=234318]
There is no criteria written specifically for year 4, so in practice the schools I’ve worked at use the year 5 criteria for both years. Beyond that, there’s only minimal difference between the year 3 and year 5 criteria anyway. Take a look at criteria A for example:

In year 3 the student:
i. provides perceptive identification and explanation of the content, context, language, structure, technique and style, and explains the relationships among texts thoroughly
ii. provides perceptive identification and explanation of the effects of the creator’s choices on an audience
iii. gives detailed justification of opinions and ideas with a range of examples, and thorough explanations; uses accurate terminology
iv. perceptively compares and contrasts features within and between genres and texts.

In year 5 the student:
i. provides perceptive - of the content, context, language, structure, technique, style of text(s) and the relationship among texts
ii. perceptively - the effects of the creator’s choices on an audience
iii. gives detailed justification of opinions and ideas with a range of examples, and thorough explanations; uses accurate terminology
iv. perceptively compares and contrasts by making extensive connections in features across and within genres and texts.
[/quote]


Y3 Criterion Ai:i- provides perceptive IDENTIFICATION and EXPLANATION of the content, context, language, structure, technique and style, and explains the relationship among texts THOROUGHLY

But

Y5 Criterion Ai:i - provides perceptive ANA LYSIS of the content, context, language, structure, technique, style of text(s) and the relationship among texts

(funny, ISR when I submitted, took the quoted word and eliminated it from showing up because of the first four letters! Weird. Fix your filter, ISR!


If you look at the command terms for identify (Provide an answer from a number of possibilities. Recognize and state briefly a distinguishing fact or feature) and explain (the why of something), VS ana lyze (Break down in order to bring out the essential elements or structure. (To identify
parts and relationships, and interpret information to reach conclusions.) and you are assessing the grade 9s on the Year 5 rubrics, you are not really doing them justice. Grade 9 is where you teach them how to do the Year 5 and if you are using only the year 5 instead of considering a transitional meld from Y3 to Y5, I think you are not being fair to your students. The skills are quite different, yet you are just going to use Y5 rubrics from the get go, instead of a continuum of movement through the two years, as the rubrics themselves state: At the END of year 5, students should be able to:

This isn't a slam on you, but it bothers me when IB teachers haven't had these things unpacked for them (as should happen in your initial workshop training, or if your school only has the minimum one IB trained teacher in the subject area, by your colleague) and apply the rubrics in an unintended (but not knowingly so) fashion. This is a pedagogical conversation that I used to have with colleagues when I was an MYP Coordinator. What happens when you moderate student work in grade 8 then grade 9 then grade 10 using those Ai criterion?
PsyGuy
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Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

While I see and agree with @SJs synopsis and position, its been my finding that in the vast majority of cases that this occures its a so what and a shrug. The ISs that embrace this approach dont care about the nuances, from their position spending two years getting to the goal is better than one, as its more likely that students with more time will be successful. If they can ana1yse they can identify, and even if they utterly cant thats something for the secondary division to worry about. You especially see this in ISs that are primary only or dont have MYP in their lower secondary program.
shadowjack
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Re: What do you think about combining a Grade 9 and 10 English classes together?

Post by shadowjack »

Except that DP1 students coming in who CANNOT ana lyze are at a severe disadvantage when trying to achieve the 6/7 band on their final exams. As I have told students in my DP classes - you can know the entire content of the course - and you'll get a 5. It is only in the synthesis and ana lysis that students are consistently in the higher bands.

But, @PG, I also understand that schools that are not truly IB in spirit and practice don't really care and do pass the buck down the road. In fact, this is also a debate between me and PYPians when I bring up the question - why is it that students who have been in our system the longest are not among our strongest students in MYP and DP? And why do we have students in grade 6 with such poor math skills, for instance. This brings up the debate that you cannot test students in the IB program and that giving tests is "not IB", which is pure hogwash. Experienced practitioners understand that testing in key areas is part of inculcating automaticity in functions, for things such as multiplication.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@SJ

How do you know the inability of DIP 1 students to ana1yse is because their MYP year 4 spent the year on ana1ysis and not identification and not some other factor, because it just sounds like @SJ claiming that 1 year on identification and 1 year on ana1ysis is better than two years on ana1ysis?
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