obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

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evilharo
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 11:21 pm

obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by evilharo »

After reading all the info on TEACH-NOW (TN),IPGCE, US teaching licenses, and QTS, I still have a few questions. But before that, let me first sketch my situation:

I am from the Benelux with master's degrees in math and physics. I have been working either as a math or physics teacher at a number of bilingual schools and international departments of domestic schools in China for 3-4 years now. My aim now is to get QTS (or a permanent US license or both) while continue working in China so that I can move to better schools with higher pay. My starting point would be taking the TN route.

Questions:
1a. There have been report that UK citizens with DC license obtained through TN route are denied QTS. Which factor causes the denial? The UK citizenship, the DC license, or the TN prep program? If it is the TN prep program, does it mean that using any other US state teaching license (in combination with TN as teach-prep program) to apply for QTS would also fail?
1b. When using the DC license to apply for QTS There have been suggestions that to circumvent the problem you simply fill in another initial teacher training program. But wouldn't the system ask for proof of attendance/completion of that program?

2. In the forums I see that the standard recommendation is to get the DC license after completing TN. Why not get the Arizona license? Would there be any advantages of the Arizona license over the DC license when applying for QTS. I know about the requirement that for the Arizona license you need to do extra exams on US history and constitution and shit within 3 years. But my aim is QTS so I don't really care that it will eventually expire.

3a. You can only get the Hawaii standard license after 3 years of teaching experience. Is that 3 years post TN program (or post initial license) experience, or can the teaching experience prior to the TN program also be used?
3b. How to verify the 3 years of teaching experience? I looked at the (EX1000) form and it seems only teaching experience in the US is considered. What about international experience? How does the verification of that work?

4. Can fingerprints (Arizona license) and FBI background checks (DC) be done for non-US citizens and abroad?

5. About the DC license renewal, i see on the website that there are 3 options: taking PD courses, performance ratings, and test scores. Does this mean that taking tests is enough? I remember earlier there were forum posts mentioning that you NEED to have PD hours.

6. How important is the teaching qualification once you have a teaching license? I have seen schools formulate their requirements as needing "a postgraduate teaching qualification, including QTS". This seems to me that in some cases it is still important.

7a. About the QTS assessment only route: has someone managed to do this at an overseas school?
7b. For the AO route you need to show that you satisfy teacher skills/abilities/requirements. But I can't find anything about what this concretely means? What should I show? Lesson plans? What else, and how detailed? Any detailed info or online resources for this?

Of course, I also welcome any info on any new alternative routes to QTS (or permanent US license). Thanks for all the help.

PsyGuy
Posts: 9968
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

In direct reply to your inquiry:

1) Its a combination. At the top of it, the TCL/TRA doesnt want UK candidates circumventing the domestic pathway of getting QTS and induction, which the OTT pathway does. Then it was the TN pathway, youd complete the application online and if you selected DC and then TN as your EPP/ITT program you would get a letter requesting completion of your field experience in the US. Its getting to be the DC credential itself and eventually all applicants, but specifically the US. The reason being this is an interpretation of the Dfe, there isnt clear guidance in the regulations and statutes and the TCL/TRA doesnt want to defend a charge of discrimination.

Traditionally it wouldn't fail, you could get the DC credential, then transition it to a state like HI and then use that credential to get QTS. What your asking though isnt really accurate. You cant complete TN as an EPP/ITT and request any particular state edu credential. You can only get one of th credentials they are approved providers for (DC, HI, AZ) you can then take that credential and attempt to peddle it elsewhere but there are only a few states that grant regular credentials to non-citizens/PR holders. Without experience your likely going to be getting an entry grade credential as opposed to a professional grade credential. Regardless, TN is still going to be you EPP/ITT program unless youre willing to engage in subterfuge.

1B) Not as of yet, youre required to submit the actual credential but not verification of the EPP/ITT program. So yes, you could just enter something else or different for your EPP program, but the TCL/TRA is very wary of DC credentials submitted by non-Americans.

2) AZ doesnt issue regular credentials to non-citizens anymore and the TCL/TRA wont issue QTS to a credential that isnt professional grade or higher, meaning in part it cant have deficiencies.

3A) It depends on the experience, your experience is very unlikely to count pre-credentialing. Even after credentialing its a coin flip.

3B) You use the same form (EX1000).

4) Not really relevant for AZ, and yes the FBI check will query with InterPol and ARCO for non-citizens.

5) Earlier, testing for renewal wasnt an option. its a new option now, but yes you can now retake the PRAXIS credentialing exams every four year to renew the DC credential. Which is a lot more convenient.

6) Im finding it difficult outside of a few very rare scenarios where an IT would lose a qualification. When an IS states "a postgraduate teaching qualification, including QTS" thy mean some form of program of study beyond the bachelors/first degree such as a PGCE or M.Ed (the qualification) that also culminated in the award of QTS, not just a PGCEi or an "academic PGCE" for example.

7A) Yes, a number of them. The TES institute is the primary global provider. You need to be teaching in an IS that provides the UK NC. If you with to transition to full QTS from an NQT you will need a BSO thats been recently inspected to undergo induction.

7B) They are referring to the "Teacher Standards", you can find them here with a link to the full guidance.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... mation.pdf
Your AO provider will give you guidance and what to expect and prepare for the portfolio and the demonstration.

By the time you complete TN, its likely that there wont be an easy way to transition the US credential to QTS. Parsing the metrics, if QTS is your real goal youre better off just doing AO. Youre European, you have advance degree in maths AND physics, ISs just want to see something that makes you 'legal'. You dont need to go the TN route (or other skills based pathway). You can get a provisional (entry grade) credential from MA by completing a couple of professional credentialing exams (the MTEL). The credential will be an effective lifetime credential, but you cant use it to get QTS. You can get that and then try to transition it to HI, to test if your previous experience is acceptable. If it isnt you will still have saved a substantial amount of coin on the TN program and having obtained the MA credential earlier will complete the three years experience for HI even sooner.

Boomba
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by Boomba »

Interesting post...

As for Teach Now, I hear well that the DC will be more and more under the spotlights of the British MoE. Why not getting directly an HI license? Would it work this way?

So, to get a MA license, the MTEL tests are necessary. Would you consider them as difficult as the PRAXIS?
I wonder... How often can we take those tests abroad?

Also, moving a license from MA to HI requires our years of experience to be taken into consideration. What would be the most important criteria? I never taught any American curriculum but I taught the IB, UK, and Ontarian ones.

sun_belle
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:01 am

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by sun_belle »

Hi @PsyGuy, I wonder if you can give me some advice on my options for getting professional, permanent licensure in the US. I have read all your feedback on this forum, but am still not sure about the steps I should take.
My qualifications:

A-levels in 2 Sciences and Maths.

BSc from a UK university.

PGCE (without QTS) (Don't know if it makes a difference but I was amongst the first cohorts to complete Sunderland's PGCE while teaching overseas in 2004, and my certificate does not mention "international".)
The PGCE transcript shows 60 "level 2" credits, and 100 "level 3" credits, but no "Masters level"
I completed two 6-week "practice of teaching" modules- one at level 2 and one at level 3. Each one was 40 credits.

I have an MEd in Education from the US (studied in person at a well known brick and mortar university).

I have well over 5 years of full-time teaching experience, some at international school overseas, some at a private school in the US.

I currently live overseas, but I have dual citizenship. It is most likely we will move back to the US, however I would like my licensure to give me the option to apply for QTS should I choose to move back to the UK at some point.

Initially I had planned to look into all of this while in the US this summer, but due to current global circumstances I am stuck overseas.
Would love to hear your thoughts?

Sorry Boomba for jumping on your thread)

Boomba
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by Boomba »

Hello,

No problem for jumping on "my" thread (as long as I get answers to my questions! ;)


Meanwhile, I wanted to add new and fresh information regarding the transition from Teach-Now to QTS as I obtained this answer directly from the Executive Officer, Professional Recognition Team of Teaching Regulation Agency in the UK. In other words, the board in charge of attributing QTS to overseas trained teachers:

"The requirements we look for from applicants applying from Utah is a minimum of a valid Level 2 teaching license, held with the Utah State Board of Education.
If you were to undertake a Teach Now route with the Graduate School of Education, to be eligible to then apply for QTS in England, you would have to show evidence that you have also met all conditions to gain full teacher certification within the USA, in either Washington DC, Arizona or Hawaii."

Based on this, it seems that obtaining a QTS is still possible with Teach Now, right?
If not, I will use this email to claim so. ;) (Yeah, wish me good luck...)

evilharo
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 11:21 pm

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by evilharo »

@PsyGuy

Thanks for the info! I got two more questions:

1. I emailed the Hawaii teaching board and they confirmed I can just use the EX1000 form to fill in my overseas teaching experience. However, they did not say whether pre-EPP/ITT or pre-license experience would count or not. It will depend on the reviews by the HI teaching board based on the documents/proof I submit. So here is a new question: do you have any tips of how I can increase the chances of acceptance of my previous teaching experiences in China? Perhaps by also submitting a recommendation letter from my old school or something? (If so, what kind of info would be good to put in... curriculum details or something?)

2. If my short term goal (within 2 years) is to get into a better school and better pay, does it make a difference whether I have a DC license (obtained through TN) or a provisional MA license? Would the DC license give me a better chance of reaching that goal than the prov. MA license?

PsyGuy
Posts: 9968
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Boomba

Because it wont be long before HI is added to the same list as DC is. If its something someone could do now, yeah you may well be able to sneak through. The TCL/TRA is about a year behind so by the time you finish Teach Now, you may very well find yourself in the same place, youll have a professional grade credential but wont be able to get QTS for it without verifying completion of field work in the US.

The MTEL and PRAXIS in subject matter tests are highly correlated. The communication and literacy exam (its really two sub tests) isnt like the PRAXIS PLT exam, its more like the PRAXIS CORE exams in that in essentially measures reading and writing literacy.

Every 21 days.

Accreditation and congruence to western methodology and pedagogy. Its a subjective measure, the more your IS appears to be a proper western IS the better. Its when youve got an IS thats little more than an EAP ES, or your IS has lite coherence to western (preferably US) curriculum that candidates have problems.

UT doesnt have level II and level I credentials anymore (until 1 July, 2020), as its not possible to enter into the APT or ARL pathways anymore. Its now either a professional (professional grade) credential or an associate (entry grade) credential.

Of course they are going to say that, thats the wording of the regulation and the TCL/TRA isnt prepared yet to go to court and defend the position that prepared in the US means having completed field work in the US, irregardless of the wording of the regulating guidance. It might work itself out in favor of QTS, depending on what happens with Brexit. I dont envision it happening, it would undermine Now Teach and the other skills pathway EPP/ITT programs in the UK, and the entirety of the system in England. It would be cutting their own throat.

@sun_belle

Its doesnt make a difference, unless you can go back to Sunderland and get them to recommend you for QTS. Your certificate isnt inscribed with "international" which might be have some value, but mostly an IS is just going to ask here your QTS certificate is, and QTS is tertiary, you either have it, have it and complete induction or you dont have it, and of the three having it and not having it are all that really matter.

Teach Ready out of Florida, its out of sight of the TCL/TRA focus, just use your US identifiers and not your UK ones. Its the most likely youll get QTS with, assuming you apply relatively soon.

@evilharo

A ref or rec letter doesnt matter. Its accreditation and congruence to western methodology and pedagogy. Its a subjective measure, the more your IS appears to be a proper western IS the better. Its when youve got an IS thats little more than an EAP ES, or your IS has lite coherence to western (preferably US) curriculum that candidates have problems with their experience.

Its probably a wash. Massachusetts has a little more prestige attached to it than DC does. At the point youre at its more a, are you legally a professional edu check mark type of issue. Both credentials are regular credentials, they fully authorize you to provide instructional service without limitation or restriction within the jurisdiction of the regulating authority. Its "Massachusetts Teaching Certificate" vs. "District of Columbia Teaching Certificate". Leave off the "Provisional" on your resume and by the time you get to or past interview it wont matter what type you have as long as its a regular edu credential.

Alchemeister
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by Alchemeister »

@Psyguy

So does that mean you could potentially get a QTS with a provisional Massachusetts Teaching License as long as you leave off that it's provisional on your resume and application? Do they really not look to much into it? If they ask you where you did your teacher training in the interview, what could you say that wouldn't raise suspicion?

Alchemeister
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by Alchemeister »

Sorry, I reread the questions evilharo wrote. I now understand he wasn't talking about getting a QTS.

AJG1990
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:23 am

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by AJG1990 »

@PsyGuy

I was wondering I you could weigh in on my possible options for getting an American teaching credential/license.

I have an Irish citizen with BA in English (four year and on campus), a PGCEi (through Sunderland), and a MPhil in Literature (one year and on campus). I have four years of teaching experience with three in an International School.

At the moment I am still considering doing Teach Now and applying directly through specific states.

Knowing my nationality, education, and experience would you recommend applying directly to any states instead of doing Teach Now? If so what state(s) would you suggest applying to?

I have read your comments on this and previous posts and remember you mentioning states such as DC, Hawaii, Mass, Connecticut, and Utah (although not now) as being possible states to apply to.

Today after researching some of your posts I earmarked DC, Hawaii, and Mass as possibilities. Although I am unable to take the MTEL exam where I live in Abu Dhabi.

Thank you for your contributions to this forum over the years. It is obvious you helped a lot of people so far. It is a great thing you are doing.

Cheers and I hope to hear back from you in the not too distant future.

Regards,
AJG

PsyGuy
Posts: 9968
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

You could apply through CT for a credential based on their experiential pathway. You could then teach on that for three years and professionalize the credential to the HI standard credential at some point. Then possibly using that to apply for QTS as an OTT (but it will probably be denied).

You would have to travel to take the MTEL exams, but unlike CT, assuming you pass, this will get you a credential with an effective lifetime validity without needing to do PD. You could then try professionalizing it as above, though youre still not likely to get QTS out of it.

It would be less expensive to do AO over TN and would actually accomplish your objective if QTS is your ultimate goal.

AJG1990
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:23 am

Re: obtaining QTS/US teaching license questions

Post by AJG1990 »

@PsyGuy

Hey,

I received my provisional Mass license recently. I studied for the relevant tests, flew to the US to take them, waited for my results, and then applied for the provisional license. It does not have an expiration date, but is valid for five years of employment starting when I'd begin working in Mass. All in all, I'd say I spent about $2,000 combined. The vast majority of this cost coming from international flights (which aren't cheap at the moment).

I'm happy, at least for now, that I chose this route over TeachNow. I studied for the MTELs for about two months using study.com. That was about $30 per month. I know most people don't study for the MTELs for that long, but I didn't want to leave anything to chance. I'm also happy I could avoid the year-long busy work of TeachNow.

If anybody has any questions about the process I'm more than happy to help.

Apologies for posting the same message twice in two separate forums.

Thanks again for the guidance guys!

Take care and stay safe.

Regards,
AJG

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