Hello! This is my firs time posting to the Forum, although I have been observing for almost a year. I apologize in advance for the lengthy intro.....
My husband and I are about to embark on our first IT placement (woohoo!), where he will be a trailing spouse. My question is in regards to his future, something we are still working on. He holds both a MSW (Masters in Social Work) and JD (which he just finished). He worked for several years as a certified social worker prior to going to law school.
Now that we are entering the IT arena, he is seriously considering trying to become a school counselor, something he would be excellent at. Does anyone have any advice regarding online programs he could do to become certified in counseling? I have looked and found some, but I would love the Forum's input on this, especially if you have personal experience.
There is no rush in terms of getting licensed, this is really more of a long-term plan to get him in a position where we can be considered a teaching couple.
I know he could easily teach English and/or History/Gov with the law degree, but he would rather be a counselor and that is where his strength is. Also, it seems to me that counselors are more in demand than English/Humanities.
Thanks in advance for your help! And thanks for all the helpful posts I've read over the past few months, they made my job search much easier and gave me hope when I needed it!
Counselor Certification question
Re: Counselor Certification question
Lehigh University in PA offers a full online counselling program geared for international teachers. I have 2 friends who have gone through it and thought it was a good program.
Response
I can not recommend the Lehigh Uni. program:
1) The counseling psychology program is an LPC program, requiring 48-Plus hours. Its not a school counseling certificate program. Your husband would get an LPC license with a focus in the coursework in children, but it does not qualify for an educator certificate as a school counselor.
2) Only 4 of the courses are available online, meaning that the majority of the program is F2F.
3) The M.Ed school counseling K-12 educator certificate program is a F2F/residence program.
4) The "International Counseling" certificate program rewards a university certificate of completion. It will not get you an educator license as a school counselor.
I would suggest you look into the D.C. requirements for School Counselor, D.C. does not require you complete an EPP/ITT program, as long as you meet the academic and internship requirements. With your husbands social work background he likely has some if not all of the coursework requirements completed, he may also be able to use any internship client hours to meet the D.C. requirements. If there are any deficiencies he can pursue meeting them either locally or through an online uni. on a course by course basis. He would also have to complete the Praxis "Professional School Counselor" exam.
The difficulty with school counseling program overseas is typically the restrictions on field work/internship and supervision. There is a larger demand for career and university counseling, as opposed to mental health services as a counselor.
1) The counseling psychology program is an LPC program, requiring 48-Plus hours. Its not a school counseling certificate program. Your husband would get an LPC license with a focus in the coursework in children, but it does not qualify for an educator certificate as a school counselor.
2) Only 4 of the courses are available online, meaning that the majority of the program is F2F.
3) The M.Ed school counseling K-12 educator certificate program is a F2F/residence program.
4) The "International Counseling" certificate program rewards a university certificate of completion. It will not get you an educator license as a school counselor.
I would suggest you look into the D.C. requirements for School Counselor, D.C. does not require you complete an EPP/ITT program, as long as you meet the academic and internship requirements. With your husbands social work background he likely has some if not all of the coursework requirements completed, he may also be able to use any internship client hours to meet the D.C. requirements. If there are any deficiencies he can pursue meeting them either locally or through an online uni. on a course by course basis. He would also have to complete the Praxis "Professional School Counselor" exam.
The difficulty with school counseling program overseas is typically the restrictions on field work/internship and supervision. There is a larger demand for career and university counseling, as opposed to mental health services as a counselor.
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magistrasmith
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:30 pm
Re: Counselor Certification question
Thank you both for your replies.
@psyguy, when you say "university counseling" do you mean "college counseling" in the American sense of helping students determine which university they want to attend and guiding them through the admissions process?
If it helps, we are moving to Shanghai......
@psyguy, when you say "university counseling" do you mean "college counseling" in the American sense of helping students determine which university they want to attend and guiding them through the admissions process?
If it helps, we are moving to Shanghai......
Re: Response
PsyGuy wrote:
> There is a larger
> demand for career and university counseling, as opposed to mental health
> services as a counselor.
On this note (maybe a new thread is needed) I am super interested in adding college counseling to my list of skills. How do you become a "qualified" college/university counselor in the independent school job arena? Anyone know?
> There is a larger
> demand for career and university counseling, as opposed to mental health
> services as a counselor.
On this note (maybe a new thread is needed) I am super interested in adding college counseling to my list of skills. How do you become a "qualified" college/university counselor in the independent school job arena? Anyone know?
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Counselor Certification question
There was an online program out of Colorado which was CACREP accredited that I remember seeing. I'll see if I can find out the name of the program. I believe it was fully online.
I also know someone doing a program out of Western Alabama who is currently an international school teacher. That may also be woth checking out for your husband. Uwa.edu
If a school can get your husband a work visa, he may be hired as a school counselor without certification, but that would depend on the country's requirements and whether the school sees the social work experience being close enough to school counseling training. I've know people working as school counselors in IS who don't have the actual credential. Often they did some coursework and were former teachers and some came from social work backgrounds. He'll have more opportunities and flexibility if he has the school counseling degree and a credential.
College counseling/university guidance is a focus for school,counselors at the high school level, though if your husband is interested in primary or middle school then it's not an issue. School counseling programs don't really deal with that in a significant way. You're lucky if there is a single class on it. There are some good programs certificate programs like UCLA's one that gives you some fundamentals on it. It is the kind of stuff you learn while working as a university admission officer for 2 or 3 years. There are some other good training programs out there aimed at counselors getting up to speed. Georgetown hosts a program during the summer that Collegeboard puts together. Overseas ACAC's conference is a good head start. There are other options that focus on being a college counselor at US independent schools, which would be okay.
While there are some IS that hire college counselors, which follows a U.S. independent school model. Often these folks are former admission officers or have worked as college counselors in the US.
I hope that helps.
I also know someone doing a program out of Western Alabama who is currently an international school teacher. That may also be woth checking out for your husband. Uwa.edu
If a school can get your husband a work visa, he may be hired as a school counselor without certification, but that would depend on the country's requirements and whether the school sees the social work experience being close enough to school counseling training. I've know people working as school counselors in IS who don't have the actual credential. Often they did some coursework and were former teachers and some came from social work backgrounds. He'll have more opportunities and flexibility if he has the school counseling degree and a credential.
College counseling/university guidance is a focus for school,counselors at the high school level, though if your husband is interested in primary or middle school then it's not an issue. School counseling programs don't really deal with that in a significant way. You're lucky if there is a single class on it. There are some good programs certificate programs like UCLA's one that gives you some fundamentals on it. It is the kind of stuff you learn while working as a university admission officer for 2 or 3 years. There are some other good training programs out there aimed at counselors getting up to speed. Georgetown hosts a program during the summer that Collegeboard puts together. Overseas ACAC's conference is a good head start. There are other options that focus on being a college counselor at US independent schools, which would be okay.
While there are some IS that hire college counselors, which follows a U.S. independent school model. Often these folks are former admission officers or have worked as college counselors in the US.
I hope that helps.
Reply
@magistrasmith
Yes I am referring to college counseling as in how to apply and gain acceptance to a university. The mental health aspect of school counselors is minimal. Its mostly consulting with other staff, preparing reports, and assessment with the occasional acute crises incident.
You dont need to help students know which university to attend their parents have already figured that out, outside of that IS students know how to identify a tertiary institute, they usually know what they want. What they need is assistance navigating the admissions and enrollment process for foreign universities. You need to be familiar with American and European (mostly UK) admission processes.
@UnCloudy
The real qualification for a university/career counselor is experience working in a tertiary admissions or enrollment services office. That and graduate from an Ivy league university. Graduate from Harvard with a business degree and you dont even need an educator certificate or teaching background at all, youll be hired very quickly with your choice of contracts.
College counseling is not a focus of mental health based school counselor programs, your lucky to find a course on it as part of a program, and most courses are in the business school/college, even then its one course in career counseling or consulting.
Yes I am referring to college counseling as in how to apply and gain acceptance to a university. The mental health aspect of school counselors is minimal. Its mostly consulting with other staff, preparing reports, and assessment with the occasional acute crises incident.
You dont need to help students know which university to attend their parents have already figured that out, outside of that IS students know how to identify a tertiary institute, they usually know what they want. What they need is assistance navigating the admissions and enrollment process for foreign universities. You need to be familiar with American and European (mostly UK) admission processes.
@UnCloudy
The real qualification for a university/career counselor is experience working in a tertiary admissions or enrollment services office. That and graduate from an Ivy league university. Graduate from Harvard with a business degree and you dont even need an educator certificate or teaching background at all, youll be hired very quickly with your choice of contracts.
College counseling is not a focus of mental health based school counselor programs, your lucky to find a course on it as part of a program, and most courses are in the business school/college, even then its one course in career counseling or consulting.
Re: Counselor Certification question
So the UCLA post-grad certificate in College Counseling for someone with great credentials already...not helpful? I've never met a college counselor who was either Ivy League OR had been in college admissions. But I also asked because I don't know much. I wouldn't be looking to do it full-time, probably...just sounds like fun to me.
Re: Counselor Certification question
I agree with PsyGuy and would take it a step further: the most desirable college counselors are those with an Ivy League undergrad degree (no matter the major), college counseling experience in a domestic school (ideally director of college counseling), university admissions office experience (admissions officer with regional territory or higher), and UCLA certificate in college counseling. These individuals are usually also well-connected in NACAC, OACAC, etc. These are the stars in the field and these are the ones who demanding international parents and demanding international schools will trust with their students as these students transition to (hopefully) the colleges and universities of their choice in both US and Europe, and other regions.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Counselor Certification question
I have to say that if you went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad and all you're doing is college counseling, you probably weren't very successful in college. At the very least you wasted a great deal of money on an expensive education to get a fairly low paying job compared to what your former classmates are doing. I've met a few, but not many. I can think of a few international schools that think of themselves as Ivy feeder schools that think this is what is important, which is rather funny.
The UCLA program and others like it, do a decent job of teaching basics of the US university admissions and financial aid. Most international school populations will be looking at universities in multiple countries. The U.S. system is the most complicated due to the number of universities, the number of state systems, the variation in types of universities, and the public vs private universities. Financial aid is also an added complication. Former admission officers wouldn't need a course like this because they already understand how things work if they've worked in the field for more than 2 or 3 years. Uncloudy, the former admission officer are much more common at independent schools in the US than international schools, but I know of 20 or so folks who are former admissions officers working as college counselors or school counselors at IS. In part, that is because SA and ISS don't really know what to do with people who don't have certification and college counseling positions are less common than school counseling positions.
Depending on where you work, you'd also want to learn about other countries universities - Canada, UK, continental European universities (mostly those with English language programs), Australia, Hong Kong, etc..
The UCLA program and others like it, do a decent job of teaching basics of the US university admissions and financial aid. Most international school populations will be looking at universities in multiple countries. The U.S. system is the most complicated due to the number of universities, the number of state systems, the variation in types of universities, and the public vs private universities. Financial aid is also an added complication. Former admission officers wouldn't need a course like this because they already understand how things work if they've worked in the field for more than 2 or 3 years. Uncloudy, the former admission officer are much more common at independent schools in the US than international schools, but I know of 20 or so folks who are former admissions officers working as college counselors or school counselors at IS. In part, that is because SA and ISS don't really know what to do with people who don't have certification and college counseling positions are less common than school counseling positions.
Depending on where you work, you'd also want to learn about other countries universities - Canada, UK, continental European universities (mostly those with English language programs), Australia, Hong Kong, etc..
Re: Counselor Certification question
Thanks, all. What you've said definitely makes sense...glad I didn't register for that program :)
Re: Counselor Certification question
eion_padraig wrote:
> I have to say that if you went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad and
> all you're doing is college counseling, you probably weren't very
> successful in college. At the very least you wasted a great deal of money
> on an expensive education to get a fairly low paying job compared to what
> your former classmates are doing.
I think this is a pretty narrow view of "successful in college." It's not always about working in an investment bank or consulting firm. I know many Ivy League grads in those fields, and I know many who were just as smart and just as successful and are today just as happy if not more so doing work in the world of education, non-profits, starting their own businesses, etc.
Back to the original topic, top ISs like highly credentialed people in college counseling both for superficial and substantive reasons: it impresses the parents AND it proves the person knows how to get into the best colleges himself or herself, which also means that he or she can help students pull their applications together successfully. I know that I would not want a college counselor at a school I am paying $30K who graduated in six years from Florida Atlantic University advising my student who wants to get into UCS, UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley, and Stanford. There is something wrong with that picture. Thus the arguments by Psyguy and Ffmary. I have done the UCLA program, and it was quite good especially for those who don't have the undergraduate academic background that impresses. Additionally, college counselors are usually not on the teachers' salary scale. They are admins at many top domestic and international schools. The pay/benefits are not too shabby, especially in the right markets.
> I have to say that if you went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad and
> all you're doing is college counseling, you probably weren't very
> successful in college. At the very least you wasted a great deal of money
> on an expensive education to get a fairly low paying job compared to what
> your former classmates are doing.
I think this is a pretty narrow view of "successful in college." It's not always about working in an investment bank or consulting firm. I know many Ivy League grads in those fields, and I know many who were just as smart and just as successful and are today just as happy if not more so doing work in the world of education, non-profits, starting their own businesses, etc.
Back to the original topic, top ISs like highly credentialed people in college counseling both for superficial and substantive reasons: it impresses the parents AND it proves the person knows how to get into the best colleges himself or herself, which also means that he or she can help students pull their applications together successfully. I know that I would not want a college counselor at a school I am paying $30K who graduated in six years from Florida Atlantic University advising my student who wants to get into UCS, UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley, and Stanford. There is something wrong with that picture. Thus the arguments by Psyguy and Ffmary. I have done the UCLA program, and it was quite good especially for those who don't have the undergraduate academic background that impresses. Additionally, college counselors are usually not on the teachers' salary scale. They are admins at many top domestic and international schools. The pay/benefits are not too shabby, especially in the right markets.
Re: Counselor Certification question
> eion_padraig wrote:
I have to say that if you went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad and all you're doing is college counseling, you probably weren't very successful in college... said no school counselor ever!
I find this funny because I know that every major city in the world has an informal network of ivy-trained counselors working in it.
I have to say that if you went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad and all you're doing is college counseling, you probably weren't very successful in college... said no school counselor ever!
I find this funny because I know that every major city in the world has an informal network of ivy-trained counselors working in it.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Counselor Certification question
reisgio wrote:
> eion_padraig wrote:
> > I have to say that if you went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad and
> > all you're doing is college counseling, you probably weren't very
> > successful in college. At the very least you wasted a great deal of money
> > on an expensive education to get a fairly low paying job compared to what
> > your former classmates are doing.
>
>
> I think this is a pretty narrow view of "successful in college." It's not always
> about working in an investment bank or consulting firm. I know many Ivy League grads
> in those fields, and I know many who were just as smart and just as successful and
> are today just as happy if not more so doing work in the world of education, non-profits,
> starting their own businesses, etc.
>
> Back to the original topic, top ISs like highly credentialed people in college counseling
> both for superficial and substantive reasons: it impresses the parents AND it proves
> the person knows how to get into the best colleges himself or herself, which also
> means that he or she can help students pull their applications together successfully.
> I know that I would not want a college counselor at a school I am paying $30K who
> graduated in six years from Florida Atlantic University advising my student who
> wants to get into UCS, UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley, and Stanford. There is something
> wrong with that picture. Thus the arguments by Psyguy and Ffmary. I have done the
> UCLA program, and it was quite good especially for those who don't have the undergraduate
> academic background that impresses. Additionally, college counselors are usually
> not on the teachers' salary scale. They are admins at many top domestic and international
> schools. The pay/benefits are not too shabby, especially in the right markets.
-------------------
LOL. I guess you can keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but the vast majority of the world doesn't really appear to care all that much where you went to college (unless you are in business or law and went to Harvard maybe). I've met and worked with counselors. teachers, principals, headmasters etc from many of the top int'l schools in the world and where they graduated from didn't really seem to play much of a factor in their getting the job.
> eion_padraig wrote:
> > I have to say that if you went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad and
> > all you're doing is college counseling, you probably weren't very
> > successful in college. At the very least you wasted a great deal of money
> > on an expensive education to get a fairly low paying job compared to what
> > your former classmates are doing.
>
>
> I think this is a pretty narrow view of "successful in college." It's not always
> about working in an investment bank or consulting firm. I know many Ivy League grads
> in those fields, and I know many who were just as smart and just as successful and
> are today just as happy if not more so doing work in the world of education, non-profits,
> starting their own businesses, etc.
>
> Back to the original topic, top ISs like highly credentialed people in college counseling
> both for superficial and substantive reasons: it impresses the parents AND it proves
> the person knows how to get into the best colleges himself or herself, which also
> means that he or she can help students pull their applications together successfully.
> I know that I would not want a college counselor at a school I am paying $30K who
> graduated in six years from Florida Atlantic University advising my student who
> wants to get into UCS, UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley, and Stanford. There is something
> wrong with that picture. Thus the arguments by Psyguy and Ffmary. I have done the
> UCLA program, and it was quite good especially for those who don't have the undergraduate
> academic background that impresses. Additionally, college counselors are usually
> not on the teachers' salary scale. They are admins at many top domestic and international
> schools. The pay/benefits are not too shabby, especially in the right markets.
-------------------
LOL. I guess you can keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but the vast majority of the world doesn't really appear to care all that much where you went to college (unless you are in business or law and went to Harvard maybe). I've met and worked with counselors. teachers, principals, headmasters etc from many of the top int'l schools in the world and where they graduated from didn't really seem to play much of a factor in their getting the job.
Re: Counselor Certification question
wrldtrvlr123, have you met parents of students who are close to graduating from (i.e. juniors and seniors at) top international schools? Do you think they don't care "all that much where" their children go to college? I promise you that they do, otherwise, they would not be sending their kids to the school in the first place. There are amazing educators from all different types of colleges and who have all different types of experiences, but just like you would want a Johns Hopkins trained doctor over one trained in Greneda and just like you would want an American Airlines pilot over one for Malaysia Airlines, if you are a parent of a student who is now going to and who has maybe gone to an international school for over a decade, you want a college counselor who is at the top of her/his game. The most direct way to assess if this is the case is if she or he has the education and experience to prove it.