Madrid Schools

[ffmary]

How would you tier the Madrid area schools of King's College, International School of Madrid, American School of Madrid, SEK International School El Castillo, and International College Spain? For instance, are any of these tier one in terms of quality programming for students and professional development for teachers?

Also, beyond tiers, what about pay? Which of these pays the most and does anyone have any inside knowledge as to how they are managed? With the economy still weak, are some of these losing students or others gaining? Do some attract better students than others, or are they more nationality-based (i.e. the American school is just for Americans, no matter their academic skills). Thanks in advance for the down and dirty on some or all of these schools.

[PsyGuy]

1st Tier:
AS Madrid (arguably Elite)
Kings College

2nd Tier:
International College Spain

Third Tier:
SEK International School El Castillo

AS Madrid pays the most, but salaries in Spain are generally low and taxes are high.

[reisgio]

This is a classic case of make sure you find your right fit. While AS Madrid gets a lot of attention for being "the best" I know from first-hand experience that "the best" often comes along with downsides. I would avoid until the new head comes on and the direction in which he or she intends to take the school becomes clear.

[wrldtrvlr123]

LOL @ pay and benefits. Even the "tier one" schools apparently only allow you to break even, by their own admission. Better hope you truly love living in Spain and have zero bills from anywhere else.

[lightstays]

The pay in southern Europe is something international school are aware of and, frankly, should be ashamed of. Anyone with a modicum of financial sense would pass over Spain. But earnings aside, it is the best country on earth.

[zanyplum]

lightstays wrote:
> The pay in southern Europe is something international school are aware of
> and, frankly, should be ashamed of. Anyone with a modicum of financial
> sense would pass over Spain. But earnings aside, it is the best country on
> earth.


I could not agree with you more. I taught in Barcelona for many years. Financially, it was a horrible decision, but in the larger scheme of things, it was the best time of my life. Now that I live in Asia, I visit every summer instead.

[lookingforlefty]

I wouldn't say they should be ashamed. It's the free market at work. Spain is a very nice place. In the Middle East, you're not being paid for your beautiful and rare skill as a teacher, you're being paid because you're an acceptable-looking Westerner who's willing to live in the Middle East. (Or in China, because you're willing to breathe that air, etc.)

A really great financial decision would be to find a better job. Other than that, yeah, unless you're waiting out your trust fund, avoid Spain.

[PsyGuy]

I wouldnt agree on the best, Italy and France rank higher in my book than Spain.

They shouldnt be ashamed either, why pay more when you dont have too. Lookingforlefty is right, Spain gets to capitalize on being in the Mediterranean region of Europe, lots of people want to work there why should they pay more or the same as the ME, where they HAVE to pay more (a lot more) because there is no other marketability or reason to do so.

[reisgio]

I would work in Trieste, Italy before I worked in American School of Madrid with its current leadership.

[PsyGuy]

I wouldnt, Trieste (and Genoa) are lower tier schools, and while the leadership at ASM is in flux, what does it matter? Do you have to like working with your senior or executive leadership? You just have to do the bauble head if its not the best fit (and when is it ever the best fit). Most people wouldnt even know if their head was gone for a day and it would be a week before anyone on the teaching staff cared (and the concern would be about getting paid on time). How often do you have to interact on any issue with the HOS? Short of them being a true pscho-path (your HOS comes into your room during a lesson and screams at you "your doing it wrong") who cares whos sitting in the big leather chair.
Compare that to all the benefits of an elite tier AS:

1) You can retire your resume, settle down and never have to worry about looking for another job again. No matter what the tax situation or cost of living, an elite tier is going to compensate you better then any other deal your going to find in the region. Sure you can get more elsewhere but youd have to leave the region to do so.

2) Your a member of the club. Meaning if you do decide to leave you will have the inside track to just about any other elite tier AS, whether you want to go to Rome, Paris, London, Tokyo, those heads all know each other and one call or letter from any of them is pretty much a VIP invitation to those "night before" the fair interview sessions, at those schools. Its like having a AMEX centurion "black" card to the IS circuit, membership has its privileges and opens a lot of back stage doors.

3) Your resume and your kids will benefit from the prestige of working/attending if not the best the most prestigious schools available. These are the overseas Ivies of K-12 education. Domestically such a school may be VERY competitive and expensive, you get it for free, and a guaranteed placement.

[ffmary]

I had the chance over the last two weeks to visit all of the schools that I mentioned in my initial post. They all had pros and cons, as do all schools. I recommend that all international teachers visit schools they are interested in before they accept jobs at those schools, though this is expensive of not possible for most. While I have learned a great amount, and all individuals commenting on this thread have given additional valuable insight, I would like to state just one thing for the public record: I worked for nearly a decade in an actual Ivy League university; ASM is not an international school "ivy" in any way. Having now visited over forty-five international schools in Europe alone and spoken with most of their admins and staff, I would not classify any of them as an international school "ivy." Their staffs and students just don't come close. Some are very good. Many are very overrated. In the US there are a good number of such "ivy" private schools, particularly in NY, NJ, PA, MD, DC, VA, CA, and a few other states. This is a result of deeply-embedded communities of hyper-competitive/hyper-intelligent and hyper-educated populations that live in these areas and institutions that have markedly lower turn-over than even the best Euro school. In our interconnected and progressive world it is easy to forget that culture matters and people of different cultures are different. Even the most international of Euro schools still has too few American students/parents/staff members to hold a candle to America's finest private schools. The end.

[PsyGuy]

@ffmary

You are 1) Wrong, and 2) A cultural elitist.

Its convenient and disingenuous to throw the ISs into the population of "All" schools, that however is not what was stated, this is a restricted sub population of INTERNATIONAL schools, and it is that and only that sub population that is referred to when describing schools such as ASM as an INTERNATIONAL "ivy" and within that sub categorization, those schools are INTERNATIONAL "Ivys", at no time does the profession of IE claim that they can swim in the global ocean of all schools everywhere.

While the term "ivy" referees to the Ivy Athletic league conference, there a re a number of truly exceptional Ivy league unis and institutions in the world such as Oxford, Cambridge, the Sorbonne, Sofia that are world class Ivy league schools whos feeder secondary (and primary) schools do not suffer nor care about the number of "American" students matriculating at their institutions. Americans like to think they are or have the best at everything, they arent and they dont.