The International Teaching Life-style and Finding a Mate

[SpedMaestro]

Well, as a single teacher, you're in the minority. Most of your coworkers are married and have a different notion of fun, at least different from mine. I have met other expat guys I've befriended but that's usually do to a common appreciation for the local culture. The fact of the matter is most expats are...boring.

[exnewyorker]

SpedMaestro wrote:
> Well, as a single teacher, you're in the minority. Most of your coworkers
> are married and have a different notion of fun, at least different from
> mine. I have met other expat guys I've befriended but that's usually do to
> a common appreciation for the local culture. The fact of the matter is most
> expats are...boring.

You think most expats are boring?? Try moving to Small Town, USA.

[eion_padraig]

> The typical teacher seems to live in an expat bubble,its annoying. If you can't put
> up with cultural differences in a mate, then why put yourself in a situation where
> there are only a few Western guys who are generally otherwise engaged?

I agree that many of my colleagues have a more limited interaction with local people that I want. Partially that is a function of the language barriers that they don't work to overcome. I have a few local friends who I communicate with in their language only. These friendships have given me a much different understanding of the city and the country. I highly encourage learning the local language when you can.

To get back to relationships, there are cultural differences that are minor and then there are cultural differences that are major. I've seen people get married who ignored some of these things only to regret it later. The most common one I see around me is the issues of Western men marrying Chinese women and what happens if/when they have kids. I've seen several marriages dissolve over the different expectations spouses have over grandparent involvement in raising of children.

Again, I think it can be one thing to date someone with a vastly different cultural background to your own, but it's a much bigger decision about whether a marriage will work. Given the divorce rates in Western countries, clearly even coming from the same place doesn't guarantee success

Based on your postings, I'm not looking at this from as quite a gendered, hetero-normative perspective as you either. I have gay and lesbian friends who also deal with this issue as international teachers. Some of the issues they have are the same, and some of the issues they have are different.

[schoolcounselor]

SpedMaestro wrote:
> Well, as a single teacher, you're in the minority. Most of your coworkers
> are married and have a different notion of fun, at least different from
> mine. I have met other expat guys I've befriended but that's usually do to
> a common appreciation for the local culture. The fact of the matter is most
> expats are...boring.

"I've know a few teachers bemoan the difficulty of meeting people overseas who
> returned home to find it tough there, only to return overseas because they weren't
> any happier back home."

I have a few comments to add to the topic, in response to all the thoughts shared previously -just quoted a couple of people, but my use of the word "you" isn't directed at anyone and I certainly speak to myself as well ;-)

UNI Fair, for example, publishes stats on all the schools, the percentage of single and married faculty. It varies widely! If finding a partner is important to you, then it strikes me that one thing a person can do is seek a school that hires mostly single faculty! My life-long dating experiences, living in different places, have led me to conclude that five things make the biggest difference in finding romantic partners:

1) Numbers. don't isolate yourself in any one community and certainly don't sit at home! If you socialize with only ex-pats, or only locals, you aren't maximizing your chances of meeting someone. Bottom line...meet more people.

2) Live in a bigger city. this goes with numbers, of course. And mindset, smaller towns tend to be more conservative have a higher percentage of married folks.

3) Be open-minded. Seriously. Fate, chance, karma, whatever you want to call it -has a place in this. Don't fail to recognize & enjoy an opportunity because you are so focused on one outcome or a narrow set of criteria.

4) Love your life. sighing about there being "no one to date" isn't generally attractive. Being bitter about finding someone is like a poison that while it kills you, also repels others! Do stuff you love, get involved in new things. (and meet more people!)

5) The grass is generally not greener. Wherever you go, there you are. The common denominator is you. Cliche, but true. If you think other people are boring...well, you get the idea.

eion_padraig said:
"Based on your postings, I'm not looking at this from as quite a gendered, hetero-normative perspective as you either. I have gay and lesbian friends who also deal with this issue as international teachers. Some of the issues they have are the same, and some of the issues they have are different."

Exactly what I was thinking, thanks for saying it. Not every single ex-pat has a goal of getting married (and/or can legally marry) and/or is expecting to have children one day. All flavors of folks across the gender spectrum are looking for love -gay, straight, middle-aged, divorced, etc.

[Crgallen22]

The new Facebook page for international school teacher singles is two days old and already over 180 members.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/410354899098928/

[lightstays]

"The dating market place is turned upside down outside of the U.S and the western world. In much of Asia, Eastern Europe or LatAm, a single male expat has more options than he knows what to do with. It's overwhelming at times."

I agree that single, and usually but not always white, males have a field day in some parts of the world but we really have to make a distinction between A MATE, as the OP stated, and BOOTY. I know so many teachers, especially in the 20s and 30s, who had revolving girlfriends in central America but very few developed into actual long-term relationships. I think there are so many cross-cultural differences that undermine many of these relationships. Some do work out and become beautiful partnerships, but so many don't.

[exnewyorker]

@Mariav1 Definitely go!! You'll have a great experience and be more interesting for it! It's only two years, what if you stay in NYC and don't meet anyone in that time? You'll probably regret that you missed this chance! I say go and re-evaluate when you have to make a decision to renew!

[Mariav1]

You really think so? But I'll be 44.. geeze. I had wanted a child. He he I'm pretty interesting now. Maybe you're right. TImes like these I wish there were two of me..;0

[Cheery Littlebottom]

Hi All
Lots of valid points from OPs here.
My comment on the "ex-pat bubble" is that there is plenty of variation within it! I went as a single woman to South America, I suppose hoping for a relationship with someone interesting, whether local or otherwise.
The ex-patriots I met were extraordinarily varied. Being British I was embarrassed to encounter a load of revolting, leering British Hash Club types who were married, fat and ALWAYS on the prowl. Then, over my years abroad in various countries, I always seem to meet a coterie of bible belt Americans with the trailing spouse wives who found fault in everything. Easy to avoid.
However, beyond these stereotypical types were a fabulous range of people. I have met load of parents who are locals and ex-pats who form a rich community around the schools, and who are a microcosm of how the world could be in terms of tolerance and co-operation. In fact, I find that the IS teachers I meet tend to epitomise the sort of person I enjoy hanging out with. Wherever they are from, they are a self-selecting bunch who are usually up for a bit of adventure, keen to appreciate all that their country of residence has to offer and generally alongside how I tend to feel about a variety of issues.
Right back at the start of my career (I'm about to move to my 5th IS) I married a "bible belt" American who couldn't be further from the stereotypes if he tried. He played in a band (with locals) and has been the perfect companion to me through all our travels. We have two great kids who are probably some of the best traveled on the planet!
I think my message is that if you work in IS's, I think you will tend to meet a pretty cool and adventurous sort of person. I think it is a good way of meeting a potential partner. Good luck!

[SpedMaestro]

schoolcounselor wrote:
> eion_padraig said:
> "Based on your postings, I'm not looking at this from as quite a gendered,
> hetero-normative perspective as you either. I have gay and lesbian friends who also
> deal with this issue as international teachers. Some of the issues they have are the
> same, and some of the issues they have are different."
>
> Exactly what I was thinking, thanks for saying it. Not every single ex-pat has a goal
> of getting married (and/or can legally marry) and/or is expecting to have children
> one day. All flavors of folks across the gender spectrum are looking for love -gay,
> straight, middle-aged, divorced, etc.

Well, lets be frank here. Vast swaths of the world are not as tolerant as the West is towards alternative lifestyles. In fact, even talking about it could be dangerous. I don't know why a gay/lesbian would become an IT because outside of Europe, they wouldn't receive a warm welcome.

[eion_padraig]

I have gay friends in China who love it here. There is a thriving gay scene in big Chinese cities. There are a fair number of gay Chinese men who speak very English well. Is there discrimination against gay men? Yes. Are they fair less likely to be physically attacked for being gay than in Western countries? Definitely.

Admittedly the prospects for lesbians in China are not as good. Especially if you don't speak Chinese, then it will tough to meet locals. There is fair less dating and more women that enter into long term relationships very quickly after meeting. A few ov my friends have said there are women seeking relationships even though they are married, but not surprising this wasn't so appealing to my friends.

The biggest problem in China is the social pressure for Chinese gays and lesbians to marry and have a child. There have been a number of stories in English language media about it.

The fact is people with alternative sexuality are discriminated against even in Europe and the West. People still have to get on with their lives as they see fit. To view anywhere outside of the West as not good places to go if you're gay or lesbian rules out lots of places that are worth a look.

But by all means carry on with your narrow, hetero-normative view of international teaching.

[schoolcounselor]

SpedMaestro wrote:

> Well, lets be frank here. Vast swaths of the world are not as tolerant as the West
> is towards alternative lifestyles. In fact, even talking about it could be dangerous.
> I don't know why a gay/lesbian would become an IT because outside of Europe, they
> wouldn't receive a warm welcome.

If we are going to be truly frank, there are many, many schools in the USA that an openly LGTBQ person would NOT receive a "warm welcome". There are also schools that wouldn't warmly welcome a divorced person or someone middle-aged and never married...really anyone that falls outside the majority can experience "tolerance" but not warmth right here in the USA.

Large international cities the world over have populations of folks that are not heterosexual and a growing number of countries allow same-sex unions. This map was posted on another thread.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... minalized/

I believe that finding a life partner is one part numbers, one part personal initiative and one part dumb luck (or fate). Being 44 or not straight or living in a country where your height/size/skin color/values don't fit with the majority is just one part of the equation. The OP really wants to find a mate, as do many. Suggesting people to just stay home isn't really a helpful addition to the dialogue -and I would suggest instead that living a life you love is more likely to bring you the love of your life than working in the USA, wishing you were somewhere else.

[LadyCanuck]

Speaking from a female perspective the chances of finding a suitable partner becomes a little more difficult when dealing with nonwestern men. Quite often you find that there are very different expectations on women and their roles when dealing with dating locals. Certain regions when looking for a potential spouse are to be avoid, like Asia, where white men want Asian women, and Asian men want to end up with Asian women. Granted there are exceptions to this.

I would suggest areas like the Middle East, where obviously you don't want to end up with a local, but where Western men are usually also basically barred for dating locals, especially in the more traditional oil countries. Or somewhere like Europe where similar values in relationships are.

[eion_padraig]

Statements like, "...white men want Asian women, and Asian men want to end up with Asian women" certainly help reinforce stereotypes about certain notions of desire. It's nice you indicated there are exceptions, but I think it's still a problematic attitude. Among my single friends who are straight men, it's not as though there is some universal Asian fetish going on. I have met guys who have certainly expressed one, so there are exceptions. I've found the men with that attitude don't tend to hide it from other men. I've probably met as many of those guys as I've met white guys who won't date Asian women. However, it ends up being a matter of numbers and who is single/unmarried. As few single straight Western males as there are in Asia relative to the population, I bet you there are fewer available straight women. But again, everyone has to make their own choices.

Here is the other elephant in the room. It is also the case that economics and the cultural values of marriage in Asia can work in the favor of men who would be considered undesirable as partners in the West. These can be overcome if the man can be shown to be a partner who provides economically for their wife. Women who are considered less desireable by men for similar reasons don't get the same benefit necessarily. But this effect certainty isn't by any means limited to Asia. Given the economics of being an IT in most of Asia, it often comes into play.

[whynot]

"I think my message is that if you work in IS's, I think you will tend to meet a pretty cool and adventurous sort of person. I think it is a good way of meeting a potential partner. Good luck!"

Absolutely agree. I have ended up with an international partner, because I have been on the circuit for a number of years. It took a while, I was alone for quite a few years, but it did happen and it's wonderful. If you go and do what you want to do, life will make things right...