Qualifications:
-BA English
-MA Secondary Education (language arts)
-Initial Utah State Teaching License
-3 Years of EFL experience in Korean Public Schools (for what it's worth)
Issues:
-Zero post-certification content area experience
-My wife is a non-teaching Korean national who insists on living in/around Seoul.
-I'm not a Christian
Questions:
1. Would it be worthwhile to attend job fairs if I'm limited to working in South Korea? Or should I apply to schools directly?
2. Should I even bother applying to top schools, even as a T.A. or Intern?
3. Do international schools hire long-term substitutes? Is subbing a viable foot in the door?
4. I know that trailing spouses can be problematic, but my wife is Korean and will not require a visa. In fact, she's able to sponsor my visa. Will schools see this as an advantage? Or will it negatively affect my compensation package? How will it work in terms of housing?
__________
I really don’t want to go back to teaching EFL while my newly developed skills atrophy. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Korean Schools: Another Newbie Seeks Foot-in-the-Door
Korean Schools: Another Newbie Seeks Foot-in-the-Door
Last edited by Ocalmy on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Be very careful. Your spouse being Korean might mean some schools would only offer you local hire status.
Does your wife have US citizenship? If so, apply as Americans, not you as American with a Korean spouse.
Have you researched schools around Seoul? You want to get into a school which teaches a real curriculum, not a glorified hagwon.
Would your wife look at places like Jeju or Incheon? Busan?
Are you willing to stay and get two years experience in the US? With only an initial license and not being Christian, you might find it harder to get in to a decent school...not sure of tiers in Korea - might only be decent school and then a steep drop off to hagwons.
Good luck!
Does your wife have US citizenship? If so, apply as Americans, not you as American with a Korean spouse.
Have you researched schools around Seoul? You want to get into a school which teaches a real curriculum, not a glorified hagwon.
Would your wife look at places like Jeju or Incheon? Busan?
Are you willing to stay and get two years experience in the US? With only an initial license and not being Christian, you might find it harder to get in to a decent school...not sure of tiers in Korea - might only be decent school and then a steep drop off to hagwons.
Good luck!
1) Its always worthwhile to attend job fairs. You want to exhaust every avenue for getting a job.
2) Couldnt hurt however you need real experience teaching your own class and subject not being some assistant.
3) Not sure
4) You need to work at a real international school. ie teaches normal subjects, and has foreign teachers that are certified and licensed. If your the only foreign teacher or if the other foreign teachers are not certified than run.
5) Getting a visa is not an issue for schools. So I wouldnt think its a big advantage. Like someone else said I wouldnt even tell them your wife is Korean.
Some random advice...
1) Lie and say your Christian.
2) You need to tell your wife your gonna have to go to what ever school hires you which most likely wont be in Seoul. Then after getting experience and contacts you can relocate to/around Seoul. She will get over it.
2) Couldnt hurt however you need real experience teaching your own class and subject not being some assistant.
3) Not sure
4) You need to work at a real international school. ie teaches normal subjects, and has foreign teachers that are certified and licensed. If your the only foreign teacher or if the other foreign teachers are not certified than run.
5) Getting a visa is not an issue for schools. So I wouldnt think its a big advantage. Like someone else said I wouldnt even tell them your wife is Korean.
Some random advice...
1) Lie and say your Christian.
2) You need to tell your wife your gonna have to go to what ever school hires you which most likely wont be in Seoul. Then after getting experience and contacts you can relocate to/around Seoul. She will get over it.
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buffalofan
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm
I disagree about attending the job fairs. If you are seriously only considering Korea, a job fair would be a waste of time and money. I doubt Search would even accept you if you are only willing to work in 1 country.
For what it's worth here, I was in your position a few years ago. I had zero post-cert experience and was keen on Korea (though I was also willing to go almost anywhere). I found that once you weeded out the Christian schools in Korea, you had a handful of schools with a ton of applicants. I remember interviewing with a Korean school at UNI who said he had been interviewing 20 people a day, and he said he had a colleague at Search Cambridge at the same time who was also interviewing - all for just a handful of positions. This is the kind of competition you'll be up against. I ended up getting a job that year, but not in Korea.
For what it's worth here, I was in your position a few years ago. I had zero post-cert experience and was keen on Korea (though I was also willing to go almost anywhere). I found that once you weeded out the Christian schools in Korea, you had a handful of schools with a ton of applicants. I remember interviewing with a Korean school at UNI who said he had been interviewing 20 people a day, and he said he had a colleague at Search Cambridge at the same time who was also interviewing - all for just a handful of positions. This is the kind of competition you'll be up against. I ended up getting a job that year, but not in Korea.
I've been looking at Korea a lot and as has been mentioned a few times on this board, the Christian thing is a big deal in Korea. Some are more strict than others, and I'm pretty sure saying that you are a Christian but are not a regular church goer would suffice for many, but there are some that very full-on "You must be Christian to work here".
I agree with Buffalofan about not bothering with a fair if you are only interested in Korea. It would be OK if you felt you were going to be competitive for the better schools (I think there were about 5 schools from Korea on the list of attendees for the Search fair in Bangkok last year), but if you won't be going for them then it's not worth it. I'd consider going direct, but in an assertive manner. What I mean by that is doing a bit extra to try and get the email address of the actual principal and then contact them (rather than go through the HR address that's posted on websites). They will easily recognize generic emails that you send out to everyone and send it straight to the trash or just pass it to H/R, so you'll have to make it more personal to get their attention. It can't hurt. For some of the lower end schools they do get a bit desperate from time to time and try to grab anyone with a related degree and just some cram school experience, so you'll be high at the top of the pile in that situation. I would seriously consider having a back up country in mind though, such as China or a small school in Japan (they're both close by). That would make the fairs worth while. Also, although the January fair might not work, consider the Bangkok spring fair. There are less schools and lower quality schools than the earlier fair, but it might preset a few options. .
I agree with Buffalofan about not bothering with a fair if you are only interested in Korea. It would be OK if you felt you were going to be competitive for the better schools (I think there were about 5 schools from Korea on the list of attendees for the Search fair in Bangkok last year), but if you won't be going for them then it's not worth it. I'd consider going direct, but in an assertive manner. What I mean by that is doing a bit extra to try and get the email address of the actual principal and then contact them (rather than go through the HR address that's posted on websites). They will easily recognize generic emails that you send out to everyone and send it straight to the trash or just pass it to H/R, so you'll have to make it more personal to get their attention. It can't hurt. For some of the lower end schools they do get a bit desperate from time to time and try to grab anyone with a related degree and just some cram school experience, so you'll be high at the top of the pile in that situation. I would seriously consider having a back up country in mind though, such as China or a small school in Japan (they're both close by). That would make the fairs worth while. Also, although the January fair might not work, consider the Bangkok spring fair. There are less schools and lower quality schools than the earlier fair, but it might preset a few options. .
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hairsonfire
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:35 pm
Don't be a dirtbag and lie about your religion to get a job. If you are a humanist, this is probably already obvious to you, but if you are in doubt...let me make it clear: lying about your religion to get a job means you are working for (and with) people you don't want to be around. Anyone who makes you pledge allegiance to Christianity isn't worth your time. Would you pretend to be a republican? A vegetarian? Someone with five years of IB experience? Be honest about who you are...
Peace-
HOF
Peace-
HOF
@shadowjack:
-My wife does not have US citizenship--at this point I'll be happy to get a job, even if it's local hire status.
-What constitutes a 'real curriculum'? What should I look for? Academic subjects taught with a particular set of standards in mind? Or just anything that's not an EFL curriculum?
-We can't stay in the U.S.--my wife has a career in Korea. She's worried if we stay here any longer she'll become obsolete. We have considered schools in Jeju, Incheon, Daegu, and Busan.
@CaliPro:
-I think I'll apply directly this year and see what happens. After I'm more competitive (and financially secure), I'll attend a job fair and apply only to Korean schools.
@buffalofan:
-Sounds like it's pretty tough to get a job in Korea. Were these top schools that you heard about...20 interviews per applicant? I could see that with Seoul Foreign School, or Seoul International School, but not so much with the lesser Korean owned and operated schools. I hope not, anyway.
@inman:
-I like the idea of going direct, but assertive. I'm flying to Korea mid-January whether or not I have a job. Do you think it would be too assertive to actually walk into schools and ask to speak with principals?
@hairsonfire/inman/calipro:
-As far as the Christian thing goes... I agree with hairsonfire, I really wouldn't want to work in a climate that would exclude people on the basis of their faith or lack thereof. On the other hand, I'm not in a position to be choosy.
-As inman mentioned, some schools are uber-Christian e.g. want a letter from your minister along with a conversion statement. Others have more of a simple affiliation--Asia Pacific International school, for example, says they actively recruit Christian teachers but base their hiring practices primarily on a candidate's skills and abilities. I consider myself agnostic, but I was raised Christian. I don't see the harm in emphasizing my Christian upbringing during an interview. Anyway, it is frustrating that faith is such an issue for so many schools. Is this specific to Korea, or typical in other parts of the world?
Thanks a lot for the responses everyone. Much appreciated. : )
.
-My wife does not have US citizenship--at this point I'll be happy to get a job, even if it's local hire status.
-What constitutes a 'real curriculum'? What should I look for? Academic subjects taught with a particular set of standards in mind? Or just anything that's not an EFL curriculum?
-We can't stay in the U.S.--my wife has a career in Korea. She's worried if we stay here any longer she'll become obsolete. We have considered schools in Jeju, Incheon, Daegu, and Busan.
@CaliPro:
-I think I'll apply directly this year and see what happens. After I'm more competitive (and financially secure), I'll attend a job fair and apply only to Korean schools.
@buffalofan:
-Sounds like it's pretty tough to get a job in Korea. Were these top schools that you heard about...20 interviews per applicant? I could see that with Seoul Foreign School, or Seoul International School, but not so much with the lesser Korean owned and operated schools. I hope not, anyway.
@inman:
-I like the idea of going direct, but assertive. I'm flying to Korea mid-January whether or not I have a job. Do you think it would be too assertive to actually walk into schools and ask to speak with principals?
@hairsonfire/inman/calipro:
-As far as the Christian thing goes... I agree with hairsonfire, I really wouldn't want to work in a climate that would exclude people on the basis of their faith or lack thereof. On the other hand, I'm not in a position to be choosy.
-As inman mentioned, some schools are uber-Christian e.g. want a letter from your minister along with a conversion statement. Others have more of a simple affiliation--Asia Pacific International school, for example, says they actively recruit Christian teachers but base their hiring practices primarily on a candidate's skills and abilities. I consider myself agnostic, but I was raised Christian. I don't see the harm in emphasizing my Christian upbringing during an interview. Anyway, it is frustrating that faith is such an issue for so many schools. Is this specific to Korea, or typical in other parts of the world?
Thanks a lot for the responses everyone. Much appreciated. : )
.
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buffalofan
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm
Benteacher,
in response to your question about walking in to schools to see the principal, I really don't know. It could go both ways. They'd either think "Wow, this guy is keen" or "Wow, this guy is desperate". Personally, if I were in your position I'd try and contact them first, perhaps even through a phone call and mention that you'll be going to Korea for a couple of weeks in January with the sole purpose of interviewing and seeing the place. I would be reluctant to say that you're moving there in January anyway, regardless of whether you have a job. You would be considered local hire if you were already there, and that would probably mean missing out on some benefits.
Alternatively, as you suggested might be an idea in a previous post, because you're planning to go to Korea in January anyway, if you don't get any bites then going through the front door, asking to speak to the principal and informing them that you're available to work as a cover teacher might inadvertently lead to an interview for a more permanent position anyway. Telling them you're available as a cover teacher has much less desperation in it than "I need a job for next year". If you like you then they may well ask you if you're interested in something more permanent anyway.
in response to your question about walking in to schools to see the principal, I really don't know. It could go both ways. They'd either think "Wow, this guy is keen" or "Wow, this guy is desperate". Personally, if I were in your position I'd try and contact them first, perhaps even through a phone call and mention that you'll be going to Korea for a couple of weeks in January with the sole purpose of interviewing and seeing the place. I would be reluctant to say that you're moving there in January anyway, regardless of whether you have a job. You would be considered local hire if you were already there, and that would probably mean missing out on some benefits.
Alternatively, as you suggested might be an idea in a previous post, because you're planning to go to Korea in January anyway, if you don't get any bites then going through the front door, asking to speak to the principal and informing them that you're available to work as a cover teacher might inadvertently lead to an interview for a more permanent position anyway. Telling them you're available as a cover teacher has much less desperation in it than "I need a job for next year". If you like you then they may well ask you if you're interested in something more permanent anyway.
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jbiersteker
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:38 am
I"m working at one of those "Christian" schools and wouldn't advise you lying about your faith. Our school, and the other Christian schools, have a very specific mission in mind with education, which would be difficult for you to fulfill if you are not a believer (I'll leave the harsh comments about Christian schools alone). There is plenty of choice for non-Christian teachers at schools in Korea (as a matter of fact there are a ton of international schools here in general). I would look at SIS, KIS, Dulwich...there are also the DODs schools if you are American.
Thanks again for the responses.
@inman:
Great suggestions. I think I'll try some combination of both options.
@jbierstecker:
I'm sorry if my comments about Christian schools seemed harsh, that really wasn't my intention. I only meant that schools with a 'very specific Christian mission' would probably not be a good fit for me anyway. I certainly wouldn't lie about being Christian. Although I do feel like my Christian upbringing fostered the kinds of values that more inclusive Christian schools would appreciate. Thank you for your response about the other non-Christian schools in Seoul.
@Tyshine:
I'm glad to hear you're having a good experience at Chadwick. How did you arrange your practicum with them? Did you approach them directly? Did your university/ teacher ed program arrange it?
Can you tell me any more about the interns? Are they paid? Are they offered housing? Do interns essentially work as teaching assistants? Are they assigned to a specific teacher? Or to a department? Any info you have would be helpful.
Also, are you planning to apply as an intern or teacher at Chadwick when you finish your program?
Lastly, what is your commute time to central Seoul? Is it possible to live in Seoul and work at Chadwick?
Thanks!
@inman:
Great suggestions. I think I'll try some combination of both options.
@jbierstecker:
I'm sorry if my comments about Christian schools seemed harsh, that really wasn't my intention. I only meant that schools with a 'very specific Christian mission' would probably not be a good fit for me anyway. I certainly wouldn't lie about being Christian. Although I do feel like my Christian upbringing fostered the kinds of values that more inclusive Christian schools would appreciate. Thank you for your response about the other non-Christian schools in Seoul.
@Tyshine:
I'm glad to hear you're having a good experience at Chadwick. How did you arrange your practicum with them? Did you approach them directly? Did your university/ teacher ed program arrange it?
Can you tell me any more about the interns? Are they paid? Are they offered housing? Do interns essentially work as teaching assistants? Are they assigned to a specific teacher? Or to a department? Any info you have would be helpful.
Also, are you planning to apply as an intern or teacher at Chadwick when you finish your program?
Lastly, what is your commute time to central Seoul? Is it possible to live in Seoul and work at Chadwick?
Thanks!
They do pay their interns, although I can't say what. Housing is provided by the school and is nearby. There will be an online applications. I contacted the school directly, but I am not an intern just a student teacher. I have seen interns who work with a specific teacher and others who work with a grade.
If you have a car it won't be too bad, but its about 1.5 hours to central Seoul via public transportation. There are rapid buses from Seoul station and Gangnam that go to Songdo, but it is still a taxi ride from those stops.
If you have a car it won't be too bad, but its about 1.5 hours to central Seoul via public transportation. There are rapid buses from Seoul station and Gangnam that go to Songdo, but it is still a taxi ride from those stops.
Last edited by Tyshine on Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.