My husband and I would like to move abroad in 3-5 years with our two young sons. I am a licensed ESL teacher and want to work at an international school. (I worked at an eikaiwa in Japan for two years before getting licensed.) I'm pretty sure there are jobs out there for me. The "problem," if you can call it that, is that my husband is not a teacher. However, he wouldn’t mind working at an international school in some regard, either in the IT department, as a computer teacher, or…I don’t know. What are the qualifications HE needs to work at an international school? Is there anything he can do without a teaching license?
Here’s what he has:
- an Associate of Applied Science in Computer Networking
- B.S. in Business (will complete in August 2013)
- a Cisco Certified Network Associate certification.
- six years’ experience supporting Windows XP and Windows 7, as well as BlackBerry and iOS mobile devices
Could he at least substitute teach? Do schools hire people like him to work in their business office or IT department? If we go back to Japan – or at least Asia – I know he can probably get a job at an English conversation school, but I think he’d prefer something else.
Thanks for any input.
Options for my husband (no teaching license)
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kellysensei
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:04 pm
- Location: St. Paul, MN
I'll be interested in the responses you receive as I am in a similar position (+ an additional child) with similar teaching qualifications and a husband with a skill set similar to yours. I have a hunch you will hear that the issue is not that there might not be work to be found for your husband, but rather you may not find a school willing to hire you with three dependents. Without a teaching background your husband essentially counts as one. I'm fairly certain I have no shot in the traditional sense due to this. Because you have one less child than me you might have a chance but I think you would probably have to be super flexible with location and kind of school.
From my understanding there is not much demand for ESL in International Schools.
As for your husband (id include you in this as well if you want to work in International Schools) id just postpone your move for 1 year and go ahead and knock out a quick cheap 6-9 month online alternative certification program and get certified in more marketable areas. TeacherReady.org is a good choice.
Good luck
ps on top of your ESL cert you will have THREE dependents! I cant imagine ANY International School hiring you with that. You and your husband will need to try to get hired together at the same school.
As for your husband (id include you in this as well if you want to work in International Schools) id just postpone your move for 1 year and go ahead and knock out a quick cheap 6-9 month online alternative certification program and get certified in more marketable areas. TeacherReady.org is a good choice.
Good luck
ps on top of your ESL cert you will have THREE dependents! I cant imagine ANY International School hiring you with that. You and your husband will need to try to get hired together at the same school.
I wouldnt say there is not much demand for ESL teachers. At my last fair (only the second I've ever attended) I was offered 5 different ESL teaching jobs and accepted one. I was also offered two positions via Skype before the fair. There are definitely less ESL jobs than regular classroom teaching jobs, but if you are qualified and have excellent references you have a shot. Mind you at my first fair (before I had ever taught abroad), I was only formally offered one job, but it was a great location and posting, so I was lucky.
As for your husband it depends on the idividual school, country and his flexibility. My husband was hired on as a teaching assistant at our last school and even did some subbing. At our next school they have already expressed interest in him coaching, etc. You can't really go in expecting he will get a job, but if you are open and patient he may get something out of it. For our next posting we are going in fully aware that he may have to end up doing something entirely separate from the school. Having one or two dependents is doable, I think...3+ is a hard sell, especially if this is your first posting.
Good luck and be persistent..
As for your husband it depends on the idividual school, country and his flexibility. My husband was hired on as a teaching assistant at our last school and even did some subbing. At our next school they have already expressed interest in him coaching, etc. You can't really go in expecting he will get a job, but if you are open and patient he may get something out of it. For our next posting we are going in fully aware that he may have to end up doing something entirely separate from the school. Having one or two dependents is doable, I think...3+ is a hard sell, especially if this is your first posting.
Good luck and be persistent..
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kellysensei
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:04 pm
- Location: St. Paul, MN
I know there are ESL jobs out there - a classmate of mine from the same ESL Master's program as me just got a job at a top international school in Tokyo, with the same credentials and experience as me.
What does Teacher Ready actually certify you in? They list seven "lessons" on the site but don't specify (that I can see) whether you can get certified in math, reading, technology, etc. It wouldn't be an option for me, because I only want to teach ESL, but *maybe* for my husband.
To add to my first post, would my husband still be considered a dependent if he already had a job lined up? (For example, at AEON in Japan, where I worked several years ago. His current company also has an office in Tokyo, though I think it's unlikely he'd be able to get transferred there.)
It's probably obvious now that we aim to get back to Japan, though we may be willing to put in two years somewhere else if it helps us get better jobs in Japan.
What does Teacher Ready actually certify you in? They list seven "lessons" on the site but don't specify (that I can see) whether you can get certified in math, reading, technology, etc. It wouldn't be an option for me, because I only want to teach ESL, but *maybe* for my husband.
To add to my first post, would my husband still be considered a dependent if he already had a job lined up? (For example, at AEON in Japan, where I worked several years ago. His current company also has an office in Tokyo, though I think it's unlikely he'd be able to get transferred there.)
It's probably obvious now that we aim to get back to Japan, though we may be willing to put in two years somewhere else if it helps us get better jobs in Japan.
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markholmes
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 10:54 pm
My wife and I work at a school in Africa that doesn't pay for dependents. On the surface this doesn't sound like a great deal (we have two kids). However, we had no full time experience before coming out, so schools that offered flights and extras to dependents wouldn't look at us.
Our salaries, however, are very good and more than compensate for the lack of flights. The fact that packages weren't actually offered to dependents worked in our favor, as it meant dependents weren't a consideration in the hiring process.
Mind you, with a timeline of 3-5 years, if you are serious about moving and staying overseas, I would get your husband certified, so you make up a teaching couple. I suspect that international school salary would be somewhere between 60 and 100% higher than Aeon, plus you would probably get an accomodation allowance (Aeon pay about 260,000 a month, I think).
I worked for Nova for a year. Terrible place.
Our salaries, however, are very good and more than compensate for the lack of flights. The fact that packages weren't actually offered to dependents worked in our favor, as it meant dependents weren't a consideration in the hiring process.
Mind you, with a timeline of 3-5 years, if you are serious about moving and staying overseas, I would get your husband certified, so you make up a teaching couple. I suspect that international school salary would be somewhere between 60 and 100% higher than Aeon, plus you would probably get an accomodation allowance (Aeon pay about 260,000 a month, I think).
I worked for Nova for a year. Terrible place.
[quote="kellysensei"]
What does Teacher Ready actually certify you in? They list seven "lessons" on the site but don't specify (that I can see) whether you can get certified in math, reading, technology, etc. It wouldn't be an option for me, because I only want to teach ESL, but *maybe* for my husband.
[/quote]
You pick any age level and subject you want. You learn that on your own. The lessons you take are more about being a teacher. State of Florida gives you awesome outline (specific) to exactly what you need to know / learn for your exams.
What does Teacher Ready actually certify you in? They list seven "lessons" on the site but don't specify (that I can see) whether you can get certified in math, reading, technology, etc. It wouldn't be an option for me, because I only want to teach ESL, but *maybe* for my husband.
[/quote]
You pick any age level and subject you want. You learn that on your own. The lessons you take are more about being a teacher. State of Florida gives you awesome outline (specific) to exactly what you need to know / learn for your exams.
Reply
Teach ready is an Alternative Certification program in Florida with a Hybrid delivery system. Academics are done through online learning and then field experience is done in a variety of school settings including international ones, which makes it attractive to those interested in becoming international teachers. I would recommend them (If an American certification is important to you), though they arent my first choice (globally).
Japan is a highly desirable region. Really when it comes to ESL, you need 5 years experience, and IB experience (English, Language B). There are just to many ESL teachers in Japan, that saturate the 2nd tier schools and with your family logistical issues, you wont be an attractive candidate. Your just too expensive at a 1:4 recruiting rate (1 employee:4 travelers). Even if a school was interested, you would have a hard time finding and affording housing, ISs give a fixed amount and needing at least a 3LDK, youd be paying out of salary a good chunk of your housing costs at any school except ASIJ.
As far as your husband goes, its not practical he would be hired in IT. At small schools the IT coordinator usually also has a part time teaching load, and your husband isnt certified. At large schools he wouldnt teach, but he would need local language proficiency ( at least NJLPT 2) to communicate with office staff, which I doubt he has.
If your a teaching couple schools look at you as a unit. Either your a local hire together or your an overseas hire together. If your husband already has a job with AEON or his company then as a unit your considered a local hire. If he isnt, then your family is considered an overseas hire, and again you would be very expensive to hire.
My advice to optimize your chances are:
1) Hubby has to get certified as a teacher. Not sure if he wants to do that. You have 3-5 years so he could get certified and get a couple years experience. Ideal areas for him that are in demand are IT/Computers, Design technology, and Business studies (including economics).
2) You need to get a couple years IB experience, and since you have time adding a counselor certification and SPED would help as well.
3) Maybe you just need to consider moving back to Japan and doing the ESL thing. You could be passing years by 'waiting' for an international school in Japan that honestly might never come. Honestly, it really sounds like you just want to be back in Japan more then anything else, so go.
Japan is a highly desirable region. Really when it comes to ESL, you need 5 years experience, and IB experience (English, Language B). There are just to many ESL teachers in Japan, that saturate the 2nd tier schools and with your family logistical issues, you wont be an attractive candidate. Your just too expensive at a 1:4 recruiting rate (1 employee:4 travelers). Even if a school was interested, you would have a hard time finding and affording housing, ISs give a fixed amount and needing at least a 3LDK, youd be paying out of salary a good chunk of your housing costs at any school except ASIJ.
As far as your husband goes, its not practical he would be hired in IT. At small schools the IT coordinator usually also has a part time teaching load, and your husband isnt certified. At large schools he wouldnt teach, but he would need local language proficiency ( at least NJLPT 2) to communicate with office staff, which I doubt he has.
If your a teaching couple schools look at you as a unit. Either your a local hire together or your an overseas hire together. If your husband already has a job with AEON or his company then as a unit your considered a local hire. If he isnt, then your family is considered an overseas hire, and again you would be very expensive to hire.
My advice to optimize your chances are:
1) Hubby has to get certified as a teacher. Not sure if he wants to do that. You have 3-5 years so he could get certified and get a couple years experience. Ideal areas for him that are in demand are IT/Computers, Design technology, and Business studies (including economics).
2) You need to get a couple years IB experience, and since you have time adding a counselor certification and SPED would help as well.
3) Maybe you just need to consider moving back to Japan and doing the ESL thing. You could be passing years by 'waiting' for an international school in Japan that honestly might never come. Honestly, it really sounds like you just want to be back in Japan more then anything else, so go.
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kellysensei
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:04 pm
- Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: Reply
[quote="PsyGuy"]
3) Maybe you just need to consider moving back to Japan and doing the ESL thing. You could be passing years by 'waiting' for an international school in Japan that honestly might never come. Honestly, it really sounds like you just want to be back in Japan more then anything else, so go.[/quote]
If it were just my husband and I, we probably would just go. But our kids will need to go to school, and I want them to go to an international school, just as I want to work at an international school. I want the schedule and the benefits an international school offers, and the ability to come back to the States during the summer for the kids' benefit.
Ideally, Japan WOULD be our top choice, because I speak the language (I'm taking JLPT N2 this December) and am raising our boys to be bilingual, English & Japanese. But we may be willing to consider other options. I do want my boys to experience life outside the U.S.
That said, I'm still wondering if getting my husband certified will be worth it, since he has no desire (that I know of) to teach in the U.S. (Admittedly, he hates his current job, but he's making DOUBLE what I make, even though I have an M.Ed. and he is still working on his B.S. It would be silly for him to give up that kind of money to teach here, unless he discovers at some point that he really does love teaching.) He'd only be getting certified to help make our dream of living overseas come true. So is it worth the time, stress and money for him to get certified just for five or so years abroad? We're not sure yet.
If he does decide to get certified (through Teacherready or something similar) in technology or business and does his field work/student teaching at an IB school here in Minnesota, would that help our case quite a bit?
3) Maybe you just need to consider moving back to Japan and doing the ESL thing. You could be passing years by 'waiting' for an international school in Japan that honestly might never come. Honestly, it really sounds like you just want to be back in Japan more then anything else, so go.[/quote]
If it were just my husband and I, we probably would just go. But our kids will need to go to school, and I want them to go to an international school, just as I want to work at an international school. I want the schedule and the benefits an international school offers, and the ability to come back to the States during the summer for the kids' benefit.
Ideally, Japan WOULD be our top choice, because I speak the language (I'm taking JLPT N2 this December) and am raising our boys to be bilingual, English & Japanese. But we may be willing to consider other options. I do want my boys to experience life outside the U.S.
That said, I'm still wondering if getting my husband certified will be worth it, since he has no desire (that I know of) to teach in the U.S. (Admittedly, he hates his current job, but he's making DOUBLE what I make, even though I have an M.Ed. and he is still working on his B.S. It would be silly for him to give up that kind of money to teach here, unless he discovers at some point that he really does love teaching.) He'd only be getting certified to help make our dream of living overseas come true. So is it worth the time, stress and money for him to get certified just for five or so years abroad? We're not sure yet.
If he does decide to get certified (through Teacherready or something similar) in technology or business and does his field work/student teaching at an IB school here in Minnesota, would that help our case quite a bit?
Well
I hate speaking in absolutes, because someone just comes along and says I did this, or I know someone who did this. Its worth it for him to get certified because what you want isnt going to happen with the status quo. Sorry, its just not, Even if you get IB experience (and you will need IB experience to be competitive at the top schools globally, or in a highly desirable region, such as Japan), because your husband is going to end up being the big pull for a school if he has Computers/IT, etc. I dont want to sound rude, but ESL is a very saturated market, and for a 1:4 employee/traveler ratio that isnt going to be an attractive hire to any school, the thought in a recruiters mind is "its just ESL, and thats an expensive hire". There are math and science teachers with your family situation who find the job hunting 'frustrating' and thats to go anywhere, its exponentially harder for Japan.
So if this is what you want to do, and your going to do it for 5 years, then yes its worth it, because its not really happening otherwise. The only real question is it worth doing at all, given his current job, and income.
So if this is what you want to do, and your going to do it for 5 years, then yes its worth it, because its not really happening otherwise. The only real question is it worth doing at all, given his current job, and income.
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kellysensei
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:04 pm
- Location: St. Paul, MN
Is it worth going at all? I'd like to think so, but we'll re-evaluate things in a year or two when I've gotten tenure here and my husband has his B.S. degree. We live within driving distance of the UNI fair, so I think we'll go to that in 2014 just to get advice from schools and network. Hopefully after that we'll have a clearer idea of what we want to do and what we need to do to accomplish that.
I did email a friend about the non-teaching spouse issue; she just moved to Tokyo a month ago and has an ESL teaching position at what I've seen mentioned as a good school there. Her reply was, "my school has a contract piece specifically for single/married spousal monetary adjustments. For example, if I was hired and had a non-licensed husband and child, I would receive more money for housing, different allowances and of course a different insurance package."
Sounds encouraging, so I refuse to give up hope that things will work out for us. :D
I did email a friend about the non-teaching spouse issue; she just moved to Tokyo a month ago and has an ESL teaching position at what I've seen mentioned as a good school there. Her reply was, "my school has a contract piece specifically for single/married spousal monetary adjustments. For example, if I was hired and had a non-licensed husband and child, I would receive more money for housing, different allowances and of course a different insurance package."
Sounds encouraging, so I refuse to give up hope that things will work out for us. :D
I so want to be encouraged by that as that would be great for me too. I feel like the bottom line though is, given the option to hire me and adjust my salary accordingly or spend far less to hire someone who will be cheaper, what do you think the school will do? You said that's written into your friends contract about adjusting income according to dependents. I'd be more interested to hear if they actually have and are hiring teachers with a number of dependents. Has that been the experience at your friends school?
Many
Many schools do give larger allowances, stipends for those with family. That's not the issue, the issue is getting them to hire one teachern (you) at those higher costs, as opposed to someone cheaper. Just because it's 'available' doesn't mean it happens, would happen for an ESL, or would happen for a family of your size. I doubt there are many if any teachers in your scenarios that are actually at this school. Even ASIJ is scaling back.
Any idiot that is willing to have their salary reduced to accommodate dependent benefits is setting a dangerous precedence. Firstly, you are sending the message that you Re really not worth it. Secondly, less reputable schools will try and 'negotiate' that way, further undermining your earning potential. I will walk away from any negotiations with a school that was not prepared to pay the benefits.
Schools can afford a few dependents, and just because there is a glut of singles out there makes it difficult to compete. If you offer quality, the cost will be reasonable for some school.
Schools can afford a few dependents, and just because there is a glut of singles out there makes it difficult to compete. If you offer quality, the cost will be reasonable for some school.
I wonder how anyone could negotiate benefits without having the full picture of what life will be like once incountry. There are already so many unknowns that tying your hands by reducing your benefits could make for a very miserable experience, not only for yourself but also for your dependents, not a situation that I would want to find myself in.
We went the other way when talking about our three children, I asked the question "What more can I do for the school", and they found more work for me outside the normal school day. In the end it was a win win situation.
We went the other way when talking about our three children, I asked the question "What more can I do for the school", and they found more work for me outside the normal school day. In the end it was a win win situation.