Keep us (me) updated Id be interested to see how long it takes for you to get a position, and how much time/effort you put into it.

Many veteran teachers get positions while only having to expend minimal resources. Even newbie teachers succeed eventually at some point (it just takes longer, due to shifts in the supply and demand market).

What this poster may be saying is they would have liked to stay, but they cant adapt to the particular culture/environment of the school, and they cant stay because the administration recognizes the uncompromisable fit and decided not to renew the contract. The poster is attempting to identify a primary factor in why the work relationship didnt work out.

I hope youre successful, if for some reason your not, at least no one will be able to say you didnt give it your best shot.

Lastly, dont be too over dependent on job aggregators (like Search, Joy, TIE, etc), many positions never get posted on anything more then the schools own HR website. You might want to great a Bookmark page of your top pick schools and just visit their HR websites regulrley.

I havent heard anything really different about either location (HK or Shanghai) from last year. Most of the improvements were more talk then action, and certainly nothing thats created any noteworthy results. I dont expect anything to be truly different for next year either.

Fair enough, I just dont read anything in my original post that could be misconstrued as coming from a position of having actually worked there. I responded with very general impressions, that were from a very general experience.

We dont have 'levels of credibility' in our resources, like

Level 1: General Research matters that can be readily verified.

Level 2: First hand experience as a employee with direct knowledge of the issue.

Level 3: First hand experience that is limited or of an indirect experience.

Level 4: Second hand experience from a known relibale/trusted source.

Level 5: Second Hand or lessor experiences that are of unknown reliability.

My main issues are that first this is a free and anonymous source, and any such distinction in material or information between accounts posted on this site suggest an illusion of validity that just doesnt exist. The factors of creditability and anonymity are dichotomcly opposed to one another. The more you have of one, the less you have of the other.

Second, any such system is not self authenticating, just because a poster claims a certain level of creditability doesnt mean its either objective, or authentic.

Third, usually the most questionable experiences are also the most negative, because they mainly fall into experiences of the minority, and often in a very small minority. In this case for example, very few teachers are often let go and based on year, and knowing the school it wouldnt be very hard or difficult for an admin reading this forum to conclude who the likely teacher is. This means the teacher either in being accurate hopes that the post remains unseen by school admins, or the poster has to obscure the details of the experience to maintain the veil of anonymity. I wouldnt want anyone to sacrifice their career for the sake of getting the truth out.


I'll keep that suggestion in mind though for the future though.

Id prefer 1st hand information myself, but Ill also take collateral information as well. Someone in beijing doesnt have to have worked at every campus in the metroplex to be informed about the other schools. I also wouldnt ignore information from an informed source. Some of the best experiences and advice comes from those who dodged a bullet about a bad school. All that said being said, i want the context of whatever experience, information or expertise is being offered, I can make my own conclusions then.


Postal script:

I have been on the Jiangxi HS campus.

The word substitution is inexcusable, I'm sorry. I just didn't proofread my message. I don't believe in apostrophes though. I paid to have my dissertation professionally edited though.

Have you considered a community college? They usually have very low tuitions online credit programs.

I don't need to have my feet on the campus to be aware of a schools reputation, or to have been exposed to others experiences about a school. That said I have been on he campus, just haven't worked there.

No, never was a teacher there or worked there.

A couple of issues your going to want to keep in mind would start with first MONEY. Seriously, a lot of the issues with startups revolve around money. Many upstart schools think (incorrectly0 that all costs scale, and thats just not true. providing a music program for instance requires a suitable sound proof room, music, and instruments just to start off with the basics. It doesnt matter whether your school has 4 students or 400 students. A lot of upfront costs are exponentially bigger then the schools revenue generation. As such having a VERY significant form of financing or capitol is highly important. You can tell the schools that dont by how much they cut corners. IS the music room just another general purpose room, and are plastic recorders the only instruments they have? Are students encouraged/required to bring their own instruments. Is all your sheet music just printed off the web. What other resources do you have (like a piano, for choral).

Is the school a non profit or for profit. For some people this is really important throughout a schools life, but more so at the beginning. Investors/owners want to see a return, and its very unlikely a school will be profitable in its first 5 years. Owners start seeing "their school" become a hole that they dump money into instead of an investment. Why is this an issue, because when owners go crazy, they start doing crazy things with their admins, and thats when the school breaks down. Owners and investors are happy as long as money is coming in, its hard for them to keep writing checks, and also keep their hands out of micromanaging everyone.

Administrators history is also a significant factor. First, are they qualified educators, or business people, or even worse "friends of the owner". Second, whats their background, have they been doing this a while, and can their career recover if the school fails. new admins that start out at a startup school are under IMMENSE pressure to succeed and that usually ends up meaning "do what the owners/board say", and they lack the experience to know a bad idea when they see one (and there will be lots of bad ideas).

New schools dont attract the best teachers. Most teachers want above anything else security and stability, they want to know their paychecks will be paid in full and on time. Most startups just cant afford a competitive salary. They have to entice a teacher to their school for two years on what is essentially an unknown school with an unknown reputation. Most teachers are going to want to be compensated for that risk. As a result you get a lot of "newbies" in the school and without strong business practices to or veteran teachers to fall back on, a lot of newbie teachers are just left to sink or swim. Thats not a good recipe in any school, but even worse for a start up.

Students at "new" startups is kind of a coin flip. Most students would rather go to an established school. If the new startup is the only one in the area, it usally means its a pretty remote area, and while the students may be an are often pretty bright they arent the most sophisticated. The other scenario you see with new startups, is the "PTA" school where the parents think they can do it better then the local school and were heavily involved in the creation of the startup school. usually these parents have money. The problem with that is it becomes a school run by parents, and they seldom have any interests outside those of their own kids in mind. They care more about the end product then they do the process.

Parents, are either going to be your BEST friends or your WORST enemies. Either they will support you, or they wont.

Did I mention Money, I hope so because the two biggest factors that influence the success of a startup are going to be money and admin support. Some things you should look for:

1) Whats the technology look like. Schools that invest in technology have money to spend, and arent afraid to invest it. 1:1 programs are the best. Labs a good second. Anything else is trouble.

2) What type of classroom facilities do you have? Ask them what they have ordered, and also understand that if they are new, they may be expecting you to order most of the stuff. Thats actually bad, because your going to be fighting with admins over everything that you want and they can afford. If youve never had to do it before you might be tempted to just order lots of everything. Even worse is if you have to do purchasing as a department or group (everyone wants something different).

3) Whats the enrollment? Ask what they expect and what they have. The bigger the gap between the two the bigger the problem. Whats the school organization. Is it just the principal and Assistant principal doing everything, and how much have they got done already (is there even an HR and technology department, or is a hotmail/yahoo address for the principal the only thing they have going)? Do they have a classroom schedule, and have they cleared it with the cafeteria (a lot about a schools daily schedule really revolves around the cafeteria). Look for indicators of thoughtful organization.

4) Whats the personality of the admin your talking too. Chances are they are putting on their mask of seduction. This is the nicest your going to find them, some admins stay nice, many "change".

5) Ask what challenges and obstacles they have. Many times they give your the sales brochure and everything sounds "WONDERFUL" thats an illusion there are always problems, and issues. If they dont want to discuss them, thats a problem. Any admin who's done this before expects problems, and challenges and doesnt avoid them.

6) Whats the work load that they are expecting? Being at a new school as a startup is a lot of work. You should really plan on working more then you normally would. The issue for you is when is a enough, enough? New schools tend to keep asking/demanding more and more from their staff. They pay you, they own you. You need to know that going into the job, and plan to be compensated accordingly.

More like the bottom of tier 3. The city is pretty boring, and its not really close to anything. The compensation package from salary to housing is all pretty low. The kids are respectful enough, but they arent exactly the shiniest apples in the barrel. The school is full of admins who shouldnt be there, and most of the faculty isnt any better. If you want to live and work as a local teacher would this is about as close to the experience as youd get without going full native.

If your desperate to just get your 2 years of IB experience and not have to work too hard for it, then its an option of last resort. You can save some money because outside traveling there isnt anything else to really spend money on anyway.

My associate doesnt do anything for me either. I've gotten some small tidbits of advice, but its always come too late or taken too long to be useful. They spend half their time making excuses for why candidates dont have a job. The other half of their time they are selling you about sending them a check again.

The database is nice though, but even being the largest agency, they still only represent a small fraction of schools.

when a school mentions religion, its usually them being PC about it. What they are looking for is fellow fanatics, that are going to help serve the koolaid.

I wouldnt right back yet though, unless you were going to follow wrldtrvlr123's advice and tell them you prayed about it. I know he was half joking but seriously, thats the only real play. Id also think hard if thats the kind of environment you want to be in.
Id give them until the end of the week and then right them a followup email. My experience has been if a school wants you, they want you, they dont play hard to get.

I suppose if we got more "personal" wed find out all kinds of things about each other.