RE Lastname_Z

When it comes to internet access in China - I think that a VPN is acceptable for school related things, but completing work virtually is a bit of a gamble. It's true that the CCP tolerates VPN's, but speak to someone in Shanghai when they are having the local CCP conference when VPN's are shut down or work poorly for a month or so when it's your job.

There were times when I could not even use Skype which is quite a rarity in China when I used to live there. The internet might be faster in China - but that's the Chinese Internet. I honestly like to describe the Chinese internet as more of an intranet (meaning the Chinese internet works great).

I also believe that the concept of an international education for Chinese students is being changed which will significantly affect the amount of employment of foreign teachers in the country in the medium term. The limiting of tutoring after school and during holidays will potentially affect many schools ability to provide holiday programs. There is also the talk of adding accommodation, tuition and other benefits such as flights as a taxable expense.

Another thing to consider is the current 'grey' trade war between Australia and China at present. It's probably more stable for other nationalities (Brits, NZ'ers) to work there at the moment as if you do something stupid then there is a limited amount that the Australian government can do due to the strained relations between the two countries.

It should also be noted that China is a huge country and what occurs in one location is often totally different in another. This knowledge is a couple of years old, but I've heard of VPN's and the internet working fantastically in more rural or secondary cities with less chance of meddling by the central government.

If new laws come in - they often occur in major cities (such as Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen etc) as a tester and are then rolled out if successful. But then again - of the law is actually implemented depends on which way the wind is blowing and if any dignitaries are visiting. Examples include if street vendors are allowed to operate. As such - my views may be uninformed for some locations in China but not all.

My favourite quote about China is the following: "Everything you have heard about China is true - somewhere in China". I would say give it a couple of years after the pandemic and when relations between Australia and China have cooled, then it would potentially be a better location than at present for a single or teaching couple.

When it comes to working overseas for the first time - some teachers make the mistake of looking for which country they want to work in. This significantly limits your opportunities as the jobs that are available significantly change each year. For example - I teach Science and have been to quite a few job fairs. I've been to Bengkok and there were few jobs that year. Then I've also been to one of the smaller earlier fairs and had 10+ interviews with different schools and was offered multiple jobs. It really depends on what is available and who is looking at the time.

A good thing to think about is also what you teach, what you bring and what you may cost. If you are an elementary teacher - then you are often in a difficult position as this is often one of the dime a dozen jobs. Many of the better schools often keep English/Humanities/Elementary positions vacant for longer so they can get teaching couples - with one teacher being the more difficult to find (such as Math, Physics, Chemistry etc).

You also have 2 dependents which as mentioned previously significantly adds to the schools cost. Many schools (specifically post covid) are looking to employ people that have less overheads. As such, many schools will often employ teaching couples, then singles, then teaching couples with kids, then the rest (which includes you). There is of course some flux in this depending on the school. For example - some schools with an almost entirely local population will employ families which are the token expats for photographic purposes.

If your husband can work virtually - also consider internet access speeds and accessibility. For example - China has lots of jobs but say goodbye in getting continual access to western platforms. Also consider that there may be time zone differences which can make things challenging.

The ME is the one area where you are more likely to get a job in a government schools (or should I say local school) compared to other countries - but note that this can be difficult to teach in as a foreign female teacher. Teaching at a mostly local clientele school can also be challenging for your kids which is something that you need to seriously consider. Also note that as your child gets closer to Year 11/12, quality of education is important and also the school year is different than the international scene. For example - school starts in August/September. Would you son be happy spending another 6 months at school if he completes his education overseas?

Having experience in the IB/American/British curriculum is helpful, but honestly you need to teach at these types of schools. Completing an IB workshop (such as making the pyp happen) probably won't make that much difference in employability, apart from schools which penny pinch so much that they might employ you as you are $400 cheaper to employ than another person.

Accommodation changes significantly between countries. For example it's almost never included in Europe, you often get an allowance in the more popular countries and some locations give you an apartment. Think of the variety as the same as working in a public school in your home country. There is a lot of variety.

Wages are honestly all over the place depending on where you live. There are some countries (I'm thinking Crete) where jobs are a tad over $20,000 AUD a year before tax. Then there are some jobs in Saudi Arabia which pay over $100,000 after tax and accommodation. It's best to think about take home pay after accommodation and tax.

One thing I seem to have found missing from this conversation (but I only scanned the replies) was how to get a job overseas. The three main options tend to be

(1) Applying directly to each school
(2) Getting an employment agency to apply on your behalf
(3) Use something like Search Associates / ISS/ Schrole

Do note that the advantages of using Search / Employment Agency can be anonymous references which gives them an advantage over just applying directly to the school. However - some schools (often the more penny pinching ones) do prefer the direct route as it's a few thousand dollars cheaper for them.

The comments on which country to work in from other people is mostly valid. That's why I suggest look for which jobs are available at the time and consider if you might be happy living and working there.

I've found it difficult to find the perfect location, culture, school balance. Often a good school might be in a city of country you don't want to live in (China for me). Or it might be an easy place to live and travel but difficult to get to know the locals (Japan).

Some people say it's better to live in a nice location and work in a terrible school - but I think it really depends on the person. This might work fine for some - but can be a hellscape for others. It's honestly too difficult to know as there are too many variables.

If there is something which I wish I had more experience in - it would be teaching students who were learning English as an additional language. I don't mean a throw away course - but actually teaching students. I taught lots of refugee students before I left my home country - but having a class where they speak to each other in another language you don't understand changes everything.

I'm putting myself out on a limb - but I would not probably work in China or the Middle East at the moment (specifically the ME as a female who will be seen as the main bread winner). The schools which are probably best suited for you (good expat population + reasonable educational standards) also tend to be the schools which attract more teachers.

To give you an idea - I once had an interview with the Head of School for a school in Vietnam (easily considered one of the best in the region) and he mentioned that over 100 teacher had applied for the humanities position but only 8 for the science position.

Also remember that this is my opinion and take it with a grain of salt. The only thing I can guarantee is that some people will disagree with me.

I've found the following questions helpful for myself when deciding to move on.

(1) Do you enjoy working at the school? If no - answer Q2

(2) Are you making a difference for the better at the school? If no - answer Q3

(3) Do you want to be part in improving the school? If no then it might be time to go - if yes answer Q4

(4) Can you make a change in the school or will it be a cyclical headache which will be a waste of time? If the answer is no then it's time to go.

At my last two schools, I was not enjoying myself and at one of them I did not have the heart to try improving the school as it had already beat out all of my passion and determination. I also keep forgetting sometimes how much covid (country and school dependent) limits our ability to put up with stuff which we used to put up with prior to covid.

Search has the majority of schools - but not all. Do note that Search does not get you an interview - but it can help if you have strong references. I can't comment on Schrole.

When it comes to the second tier schools in Japan - a few of these do not join up to Search. Contacting these schools directly is the best bet. Many of the schools also employ people directly from their websites, which sometimes might be more accurate than what is written on Search. However, I can't comment on a persons employablity through just contacting schools directly.

In general, I see Japan as one of the harder nuts to crack if you want to get a well paying job at one of the better schools. Japan is a highly desired location such as Singapore - but Singapore has MANY MORE SCHOOLS and specifically students than the whole of Japan. Many people stay in Japan for a significant amount of time. For example - a teacher had been at a particular school in Japan I used to work at for as long as I had been alive at the time.

There is also a larger expat teacher and job hopping between schools that occurs in Japan than some other countries. As such - some of the jobs are filled by people in country or people that have been recommended by people. Others will have more knowledge than I on Schrole

Hi All,

We have all heard of some teachers who have totally unrealistic expectations of pay and conditions at international schools (eg - 10K USD a month tax free in a low cost country). I'm also aware that wages and such are very different depending on each country. For example - 50 USD is very different in Singapore compared to Vietnam. I'm also aware that some schools don't pay much because they can't afford it.

I recently saw a job for a central European school with was in the 20K range for a 1 year contract (must have masters), 5 years experience + specific national curriculum experience etc for a slightly difficult to employ subject.

Without directly naming the school, what is the hardest sell you have seen for a school?

Thailand and Vietnam are quite competitive in the best of years - but it's even worse this year due to closed borders and reduced student numbers.

Also do not underestimate the stress which can come from taking a job at a bad international school. Not living in a country with a family support system can be very taxing.

Hi All,

A few days ago I received an email stating that positions were still available for the Shanghai Virtual fair and it suggested that candidate numbers were down compared to normal (roughly 150 candidates for 60 schools). Do people think that the visa situation, politics or reservations of moving overseas is the main reason for this?

It really depends on the school. If it's a highly reputable school which looked after it's staff during the 2020/21 school year - then it should not be as much of a problem. The only problem is a lot of these schools can also get high quality teachers in China through cherry picking from the Tier 2/3 schools which is also cheaper for them in non-covid times.

Odd question to ask - but is it an international school or just one in name as taking primary aged kids into an environment where few of the other students speak ok English can be difficult. Others will know more on this than I.

60,000 pounds is about $110,000 SGD. It's possible to get a job with this pay (including bonus and rent) but it really depends on how cheaply you live.

Rent is much more expensive in Singapore - but taxes are much lower. Unless your a penny pincher - it's not possible to save as much and live a truly expat lifestyle in Singapore compared to a Tier 2 Chinese city. If you cook yourself (or eat at hawker centres) and don't drink alcohol that will make a big difference.

To live a true expat lifestyle in Singapore with the same savings potential - you'd probably need to be closer to $150,000 SGD which does not exist unless you are in admin.

The main problem with Japan is that some of the older schools have teachers who have been at the school for over 20 years. This means in a normal year there are normally more jobs available in Shanghai than the whole of Japan.

I've found that getting a job in Japan is very cyclical and it depends on the year. If you have plenty of international and IB experience with strong references then you might get a job at one of the more known schools. It really depends on if there is a position available that year. For example - there may only be 3/4 English jobs available one year but 12 the following year.

What is not talked about much on this forum are the other quasi international schools which don't use Search or expensive job recruitment agencies. These schools often look for teachers with IB or International experience but you don't get paid much at all....

Asking if there is a contact to sign politely is something that can be asked. Others may be able to say more on how to do this carefully

It really depends on the professionalism and how western the admin runs. For example - I've had a contract given to me when I've been offered a job straight away. I've also been given a contract to sign when I made it on location.

I do know that sending documents are more difficult and more expensive during covid times. If they are working on your visa then they are spending money on you and I'd say things would look much more secure.

On these topics - lots of people have different strong views. My comment on how the admin runs is that more local schools tend to follow local norms - whatever they may be.

I've answered the questions you have been asked on numerous occasions. If the questions are legal and ethical - that really depends on the country which it is occurring. I do see that some schools don't want to employ people who take a lot of time off - but I also see the privacy element as well.

I'm sure that others will have more to say on the topic than I.

One thing you will probably notice is more positions becoming available in China than normal.

It is true that there will probably be less teachers as a whole in 2021/22 in China, but the vast majority of positions are for local students which are not as reliant on open borders.

Taking out politics and everything - the two biggest things that may cause many staff to leave China or limit people moving to China are:

(1) Not being able to leave to visit family in their home countries
(2) Many partners not being able to bring in dependents into the country

I'm personally expecting some of the lower quality schools which don't pay well in less than ideal cities closer to June will struggle to fill all of their positions. Do take my opinion with a big grain of salt though

In the last few days I've been contacted by a few European schools for the 2021/22 school year. Some are good schools whilst some are what they are. Thankfully I already have a job for next year but it got me thinking....

With COVID, high taxes and low saving potential in mid to lower tier schools in Europe (specifically central Europe), will the glut of teachers who apply for these positions start to dry up?

This post was inspired by a school which contacted me with a 2 in the front of it's lower and upper pay scale. I'm not totally money focused - but it is quite offputting.